Transport for Wales Class 231 / 756 FLIRTs

[Peter Sarf]

I’ve just had a glimpse of a unit in TfW livery at Braunschweig, sandwiched between Rail Adventure wagons. I’m assuming it was a 231 in course of delivery but my train passed it too quickly for me to positively identify.

They were all in Wales by then 231001-011 apparently. And I have since seen 231011 in the UK.

It's only viewable from the footbridge on the station and is generally empty apart from on a Sunday or overnight.

Seems to be four 231s there (Barry) during the day but you are unlikely to get any numbers.

Diagram wise :-

This week I have seen diagrams 3A11 - 3A17 used daily on RTT. Sometimes the unit number does not get added to the info until a few hours later. From memory that was 231003 Mon & Tue but switched to 231004 Wed and Thu (so far).

Other diagrams I have spotted on RTT have been 3A05 - 3A06 using 231003 iirc,
3G62 - 3G66 (or 3Q62 - 3Q66) noting 231001 but some/all cancelled ! and
3G52/3Q52 worth looking out for.

Can identify a 231 from the main line side of Canton. One or two 231 identifiable in sidings from services Cardiff Central to/from Ninian Park. Does depend if a 769 sits in the way !. These two 231s seem to be the candidates for above mentioned diagrams. Seem to be down as ECS runs which might be Fault Free Running or might actually be driver training.

Have not spotted any on the longer distance runs to Gloucester (or Swindon) recently so I can only guess that phase has passed ?.

 

[dorsetdesiro]

Anyone know these are fitted out with similar interiors to GA's Flirts or will have toned down commuter spec interiors i.e. no carpets and thinner seats?

 

[penguin8967]

Anyone know these are fitted out with similar interiors to GA's Flirts or will have toned down commuter spec interiors i.e. no carpets and thinner seats?

Similar interior with the same seats & tables, no carpets though. From pictures it looks like it might even be the same moquette!

 

[Trainbike46]

Similar interior with the same seats & tables, no carpets though. From pictures it looks like it might even be the same moquette!

GA and TfW using similar colours must help!

 

[AlexNL]

Anyone know these are fitted out with similar interiors to GA's Flirts or will have toned down commuter spec interiors i.e. no carpets and thinner seats?

I posted a picture of the interior of a 231 a while ago, see here:

Transport for Wales Class 231 / 756 FLIRTs | Page 13 | RailUK Forums (railforums.co.uk)

 

[Envoy]

So, when are they going to enter service? Is the Penarth to Rhymney route still down to get them first?

 

[Peter Sarf]

So, when are they going to enter service? Is the Penarth to Rhymney route still down to get them first?

They are doing daily ECS runs Canton to Pontypridd to Barry to Ninian Park to Canton, then repeat (look at 3A01 - 3A19 plus a few 3A3x). So I wonder if Barry to Pontypridd is connected with the route they will end up on or just driver training out of the way of Cardiff Central.

 

[dorsetdesiro]

I posted a picture of the interior of a 231 a while ago, see here:

Transport for Wales Class 231 / 756 FLIRTs | Page 13 | RailUK Forums (railforums.co.uk)

Thanks, looks great as south Wales will be in for a treat if these are near identical to GA's own, a massive upgrade from likes of Pacers & 150s etc.

Bit disappointed TfW chose the same fabric as GA's not their own with the diamond pattern in use with the refurbished older stock - probably surplus fabric left over from the GA order ha ha.

As Trainbike said above with GA and TfW having similar liveries helped especially the 170s going straight into TfW service unrefurbished!

 

[Peter Sarf]

Thanks, looks great as south Wales will be in for a treat if these are near identical to GA's own, a massive upgrade from likes of Pacers & 150s etc.

Bit disappointed TfW chose the same fabric as GA's not their own with the diamond pattern in use with the refurbished older stock - probably surplus fabric left over from the GA order ha ha.

As Trainbike said above with GA and TfW having similar liveries helped especially the 170s going straight into TfW service unrefurbished!

Last few days I have sampled 150s around Cardiff, probably for the first time in five years. My goodness they have become ear-piercingly noisy !.

 

[anthony263]

They are doing daily ECS runs Canton to Pontypridd to Barry to Ninian Park to Canton, then repeat (look at 3A01 - 3A19 plus a few 3A3x). So I wonder if Barry to Pontypridd is connected with the route they will end up on or just driver training out of the way of Cardiff Central.

They staying them at Barry. Plus in the future only the Rhymney line service will go to Penarth abd Barry Island etc. I read somewhere they were clearing the 231s to pontypridd. Be handy on match days

 

[Buzz68]

The first daylight run for 231's up to Rhymney today and the start of crew training.
231003 5R05 Canton to Heath High Level and 3R05 from HHL to Rhymney, seen at Llanbradach. Initially there will be 2 paths a day 3R05 and 3R07 but eventually a Canton path will be added.

 

[Broseley man]

This is fabulous to see. Thank you for the picture. If I lived on the line I'd see this as wonderful progress.

 

[Buzz68]

This is fabulous to see. Thank you for the picture. If I lived on the line I'd see this as wonderful progress.

Thank you

 

[RailWonderer]

The first daylight run for 231's up to Rhymney today and the start of crew training.
231003 5R05 Canton to Heath High Level and 3R05 from HHL to Rhymney, seen at Llanbradach. Initially there will be 2 paths a day 3R05 and 3R07 but eventually a Canton path will be added. View attachment 122596

These will absolutely transform the parts of Wales they are headed to (routes out of Cardiff). Even now 3 years after introduction on GA you can still hear passengers at Ipswich impressed with them, complementing the seats and the quality feel of the interiors.

 

[Kyle2]

It's still baffling to me why Rhymney and the Vale of Glamorgan are getting nicer trains than the long distance West Wales to Manchester services.

Also, if we're comparing the 231/756 to a 150 or 769, it's like a different world.

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

It's still baffling to me why Rhymney and the Vale of Glamorgan are getting nicer trains than the long distance West Wales to Manchester services.

Also, if we're comparing the 231/756 to a 150 or 769, it's like a different world.

Nicer according to who though? I don’t think Greater Anglia’s FLIRTS are anything to write home about, and I probably prefer Fainsa Sophia seating to Kiel. It’s entirely subjective among individuals.

 

[Rhydgaled]

It's still baffling to me why Rhymney and the Vale of Glamorgan are getting nicer trains than the long distance West Wales to Manchester services.

Also, if we're comparing the 231/756 to a 150 or 769, it's like a different world.

Nicer according to who though? I don’t think Greater Anglia’s FLIRTS are anything to write home about, and I probably prefer Fainsa Sophia seating to Kiel. It’s entirely subjective among individuals.

Seating is only 'entirely subjective' until somebody publishes the scores the various seats attain under the T1140 'Defining requirements for seat comfort' process. Unfortunately I'm not expecting that to happen anytime soon.

Anyway, regardless of whether Sophia or Kiel seating is most uncomfortable, the seat itself is just one part of 'is this a nice train or not'. There are other things like tables, legroom and toilet provision to consider.

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

Seating is only 'entirely subjective' until somebody publishes the scores the various seats attain under the T1140 'Defining requirements for seat comfort' process. Unfortunately I'm not expecting that to happen anytime soon.

Anyway, regardless of whether Sophia or Kiel seating is most uncomfortable, the seat itself is just one part of 'is this a nice train or not'. There are other things like tables, legroom and toilet provision to consider.

And if you’ve seen the bar that completely blocks the legs of anyone sat at a window airline seat on a GA Flirt, you’ll know the legroom isn’t great on those trains.

 

[Peter Sarf]

It's still baffling to me why Rhymney and the Vale of Glamorgan are getting nicer trains than the long distance West Wales to Manchester services.

Also, if we're comparing the 231/756 to a 150 or 769, it's like a different world.

I think the diesel only 231s are going onto the Rhymney and Glamorgan line to relieve the shortage of 150s. Then I think the Tri-Mode 756s will eventually push the 231s off to longer distance routes that have a lot less (no) electrification.

And if you’ve seen the bar that completely blocks the legs of anyone sat at a window airline seat on a GA Flirt, you’ll know the legroom isn’t great on those trains.

Having been on a few GA Flirts I am impressed. I have long legs but don't think I have encountered the bar you describe.

Furthermore I anticipate this proven design getting into service quite quickly. The 756s with their Tri-Mode capability might be a different introduction.

 

[Bob Price]

I would imagine if TfW had there way they would have 100% Stadler but have taken on CAF as the Welsh built train. So now Canton and Taffs Well depot will be Stadler and the rest will be CAF with Landore looking after the 153's.

 

[Peter Sarf]

I would imagine if TfW had there way they would have 100% Stadler but have taken on CAF as the Welsh built train. So now Canton and Taffs Well depot will be Stadler and the rest will be CAF with Landore looking after the 153's.

I expect CAF will be cheaper and TfW bought as many Flirts as they could afford.

What about Barry Depot, which seems to be for valley lines services, or is that just a lesser depot ?. Surely Canton is too big for just the Stadlers ?. Where for CAF ?.

 

[PaulHarding150]

I would imagine if TfW had there way they would have 100% Stadler but have taken on CAF as the Welsh built train. So now Canton and Taffs Well depot will be Stadler and the rest will be CAF with Landore looking after the 153's.

Are those the designated bases? No 197s at Canton? There are/will be 77 of them.

 

[Anonymous10]

I expect CAF will be cheaper and TfW bought as many Flirts as they could afford.

What about Barry Depot, which seems to be for valley lines services, or is that just a lesser depot ?. Surely Canton is too big for just the Stadlers ?. Where for CAF ?.

caf is supposed to be machynlleth and Chester and canton for standler but minor work on caf may be carried out

 

[anamyd]

Are those the designated bases? No 197s at Canton? There are/will be 77 of them.

I'm wondering what the home depot split will be with the 197s too. 21 will be Machynlleth so that leaves 56 for Chester and Canton. Chester has been 27 175s so I wonder how many more 197s than that will have a home depot of Chester. Then the rest would be Canton.

 

[craigybagel]

197s will be allocated to Machynlleth and/or Chester, but you can bet there will be several units at Canton every night - the same as is the case now with the 158s and 175s.

Canton will have the Stadlers and MKIVs.

 

[Kyle2]

And if you’ve seen the bar that completely blocks the legs of anyone sat at a window airline seat on a GA Flirt, you’ll know the legroom isn’t great on those trains.

I'm 6'3, i've used the GA flirts (745 and 755) and never noticed the bar you speak of. In fact, the legroom was one of the things that stood out to me, I didn't have to sit across 2 seats like on a 150

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

I'm 6'3, i've used the GA flirts (745 and 755) and never noticed the bar you speak of.

Only on Airline seats by the window

 

[mpb56125]

756 103 in Switzerland at https://mark5812.smugmug.com/UKpicturesclassorder/Class-756

Mark

 

[Bob Price]

An article on the BBC Wales news about the Metro mentions the 231's will enter service in January
BBC News - South Wales Metro: Further delays confirmed for railway upgrade

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-politics-635855011

 

[Nottingham59]

Does anyone know the capacity of the batteries on the Class 756? Do they give a significant range off the wires? Or are they just enough to accelerate the train to linespeed from a standing start, and the re-absorb that kinetic energy again, instead of turning it into heat in the braking system?