Transport for Wales launch their 'Cheapest Ever' tickets

[Starmill]

Transport for Wales say that their train journeys "over 50 miles" and now the "cheapest ever", as a result of what they call their "first pricing initiative". It's unclear to me exactly what they mean by this but here is an extract from what they say:

New Advance tickets, TfW’s first pricing initiative since taking over the franchise in October 2018, means all passengers can save up to 60% throughout the Wales and the Borders network on many new journeys over 50 miles.

Under the previous operator, cheaper fares were only available to purchase on a limited number of routes.

Advance tickets are single tickets for specific trains which can be bought from 12 weeks and up to 6pm, prior to the day of travel. Passengers then purchase another Advance single ticket for return journeys.

Tickets are valid on the train booked and the earlier passengers buy a ticket, the cheaper it can be with the average saving at 48%.

https://news.tfwrail.wales/news/rail-journeys-over-50-miles-now-cheapest-ever-as-transport-for-wales-tfw-launches-first-pricing-initiative

Transport for Wales don't give an example journey for which they have now added Advance tickets where they were unavailable previously. Does anyone know if these changes have taken effect already or if they will do so shortly? They also haven't offered any sample prices at all to demonstrate what they mean by 'cheapest ever'.

So, does anyone have any further information about the meaning of this change? They have posted at length about it on social media and it seems to be a big thing for them. Is anyone who has seen the retail brief able to summarise?

 

[Starmill]

I can see that, for example, there are now AP Transport for Wales Only fares from Birmingham Stations to Cardiff Central. Some questions about these then:
- Are they new?
- If they are new, are they part of the 'first pricing initiative' they are talking about?
- How are they supposed to be bought and used? One assumes that TfW won't be introducing their own through services between Birmingham and Cardiff, so travel via Shrewsbury with a change of trains is the only way for people to take advantage of these "lowest ever fares". However, travel via Shrewsbury is not a permitted route. Will an easement be added to allow AP TfW Only tickets to be used via Shrewsbury then?

 

[Silverdale]

How are they supposed to be bought and used?

The routing is given as "AP TFW ONLY", but restriction AC says; "Valid on Transport for Wales (TOC Code: ATW) and connecting services."

Presumably they will actually be routed via Hereford. (??)

 

[Starmill]

The routing is given as "AP TFW ONLY", but restriction AC says; "Valid on Transport for Wales (TOC Code: ATW) and connecting services."

Presumably they will actually be routed via Hereford. (??)

It would be a little bit odd if so, given they already have an 'AP TFW LM + CONN' option which offers a change at Hereford. These were already available for journeys such as Birmingham Stations to Port Talbot Parkway. I never quite understood why these were available from Birmingham to some stations west of Cardiff, but not to Newport or Cardiff themselves.

 

[Starmill]

There are very few examples of station pairs more than 50 miles apart where Arriva Trains Wales services could actually be used along a permitted route and they did not offer Advance tickets. In fact I couldn't think of any where they ran trains, so I'd be pleased to hear some?

...all passengers can save up to 60% throughout the Wales and the Borders network on many new journeys over 50 miles.

Under the previous operator, cheaper fares were only available to purchase on a limited number of routes.

The first example I could think of that is current for tickets on sale at the moment was Liverpool to Telford. I can book this ticket on the Transport for Wales website using TfW services only, with one change at Chester. It's well over 60 miles regardless of what metric is used so it should qualify. No tickets other than the Anytime Day Single at £30 ever seem to be available?

 

[hexagon789]

They won't be the cheapest ever. We would've been using L.s.d. when they were the "cheapest ever"

 

[pdeaves]

They won't be the cheapest ever. We would've been using L.s.d. when they were the "cheapest ever"

Probably 1d/mile or something (about 0.4p/mile)!

 

[hexagon789]

Probably 1d/mile or something (about 0.4p/mile)!

Can we take them up on this? That would be 0.5p per mile decimalised - so 25p for 50 miles. Now that's a fare I like!

Seriously though, I doubt these are going to be either widely available or easy to obtain - every time a TOC does this they make it very difficult to actually get such tickets.

Precedent generally prevails but I look on with interest to see if this goes anywhere...

 

[Y Ddraig Coch]

Part of TfW new reduced fares and benefits that started yesterday say that children can get a free off peak ticket with a paying adult or free anytime ticket if the child is under 10 years old.

When I try and put 1 adult and 1 child in to the TfW ( or indeed the NRE) booking engine it is still charging for the child. I have checked on the map that the routes I have checked are all completely inside the included area.

Do you just get on the train without a ticket for the child? Do you have to physically go to a booking office to get a zero fare ticket for the child?

 

[furlong]

And apparently yet another benefit for Annual Gold Card (and other annual season ticket) holders nationwide, with 1/3 off off-peak TfW fares in Wales. (ref. Barry Doe's column in Rail, rlc=WSH on brfares https://www.nationalrail.co.uk/times_fares/239148.aspx "only valid upon presentation of an Annual Season Ticket at a Transport for Wales Rail Services ticket office.")

 

[Hadders]

I do wonder why TfW haven’t just signed up to the Gold Card scheme rather than deciding their own hack.

 

[bolli]

Part of TfW new reduced fares and benefits that started yesterday say that children can get a free off peak ticket with a paying adult or free anytime ticket if the child is under 10 years old.

When I try and put 1 adult and 1 child in to the TfW ( or indeed the NRE) booking engine it is still charging for the child. I have checked on the map that the routes I have checked are all completely inside the included area.

Do you just get on the train without a ticket for the child? Do you have to physically go to a booking office to get a zero fare ticket for the child?

Under 11s now have free travel when with a fare paying adult. You just turn up and collect a concessionary ticket from the booking office or conductor. I believe the reason that it is done this way is because it’s not actually a “zero fare” ticket, but the cost is passed on to the welsh assembly, and cannot be accounted for through the traditional online booking systems easily.

 

[fishquinn]

What's happening with the 50% off for 18 year olds? Do you just buy a child ticket for the journey or is there some other process to go through? The TFW website doesn't seem to expand on it, just saying that there's a discount.

 

[furlong]

What's happening with the 50% off for 18 year olds? Do you just buy a child ticket for the journey or is there some other process to go through? The TFW website doesn't seem to expand on it, just saying that there's a discount.

Information is still sketchy, but I thinl it's a railcard that costs £20 and tickets purchased using it are only valid on TfW services. Ask at a TfW ticket office.

 

[Y Ddraig Coch]

Under 11s now have free travel when with a fare paying adult. You just turn up and collect a concessionary ticket from the booking office or conductor. I believe the reason that it is done this way is because it’s not actually a “zero fare” ticket, but the cost is passed on to the welsh assembly, and cannot be accounted for through the traditional online booking systems easily.

Exactly the info I was looking for. Thank you

 

[Haywain]

I believe the reason that it is done this way is because it’s not actually a “zero fare” ticket, but the cost is passed on to the welsh assembly, and cannot be accounted for through the traditional online booking systems easily.

Also, it isn’t possible to issue a zero fare ticket through the ToD system.

 

[Clip]

I do wonder why TfW haven’t just signed up to the Gold Card scheme rather than deciding their own hack.

Because they would then have to accept people from the South East getting the discount - and these would normally be leisure travellers on holiday who are more than happy to pay a high er price and would lose out on that revenue.

It would also leave a large gap between the two area

 

[fishquinn]

Information is still sketchy, but I thinl it's a railcard that costs £20 and tickets purchased using it are only valid on TfW services. Ask at a TfW ticket office.

Cheers, probably not worth it for me as I'm not really a local

 

[Hadders]

Because they would then have to accept people from the South East getting the discount - and these would normally be leisure travellers on holiday who are more than happy to pay a high er price and would lose out on that revenue.

It would also leave a large gap between the two area

But I understand that any season ticket qualifies for the discount, even a Hatton - Lapworth annual season!

The Gold Card area extends as far as Shrewsbury although there would be a gap further south.

 

[Clip]

But I understand that any season ticket qualifies for the discount, even a Hatton - Lapworth annual season!

The Gold Card area extends as far as Shrewsbury although there would be a gap further south.

Because hatton - Lapworth is in the area which was, i think, the old NSE area, so even though its been expanded a little it would still leave gaps and TFW a short fall on revenue

 

[Hadders]

Hatton and Lapworth are not in the old NSE area. They are part of the expanded Gold Card area from 2015.

 

[ForTheLoveOf]

Because hatton - Lapworth is in the area which was, i think, the old NSE area, so even though its been expanded a little it would still leave gaps and TFW a short fall on revenue

Hatton and Lapworth are both just a hair outside the West Midlands County. A brief glance at the Network Railcard map will show you that neither were in the NSE area - although NSE's extensions of the London-Banbury service to Birmingham Moor Street in their twilight years may have called at either station. I can't recall whether or not they did.

The fact that TfW aren't getting any revenue from the season ticket is completely by the by - this will be the case for many kinds of tickets and yet the TOCs have to take it as it comes. It's simply part of what membership of a national railway system entails.

 

[Clip]

The fact that TfW aren't getting any revenue from the season ticket is completely by the by - this will be the case for many kinds of tickets and yet the TOCs have to take it as it comes. It's simply part of what membership of a national railway system entails.

I was making th epoint that they would be losing revenue from the discounted tickets bought by people from outside their area - which is true because these would be mainly leisure travellers which is all explained in my full first post gwrtimetable

 

[MikeWh]

Having looked at the TfW website it's not at all clear whether the offer is open to any annual season ticket holder or just those provided by TfW. What is clear is that this is part of a package of benefits being funded by the Welsh Assembly so I would be surprised if it was open to any annual season ticket holder.

The expanded NSE Gold Card area is a scheme bought into by the participating TOCs. Not all TOCs operating within the area participate; the discounted tickets are not valid on LNER or Avanti and their use on Cross Country is restricted.

 

[Hadders]

If the offer is open to any season ticket holder from anywhere (which is what Barry Doe has indicated in his RAIL column) then TfW should just have joined the Gold Card scheme. Not to do so just results in more complication which the rail industry keeps telling us they’re trying to avoid....

On the other hand if the discount is only for season tickets prices by TfW then fair enough, although on a practical level how is a ticket clerk supposed to know whether or not a particular season ticket qualifies for the discount?