Travelling on Thalys services without passholder reservation if ICE service cancelled

[Drsatan]

Good evening,

I'm off interrailing next month and one journey I'll need to make is from Brussels to Koln.

I'm aiming to get the ICE service between the two cities to avoid the passholder fare on Thalys. However, I've read that DB has cancelled some Brussels to Frankfurt ICE services due to driver shortages.

If the ICE I want to get is cancelled, can I get on the next Thalys service without paying a passholder supplement?

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

I assume you would be put on the next ICE instead. It’s not down to Thalys to drop one of their charges because an ICE was cancelled.

 

[ricohallo]

Good evening,

I'm off interrailing next month and one journey I'll need to make is from Brussels to Koln.

I'm aiming to get the ICE service between the two cities to avoid the passholder fare on Thalys. However, I've read that DB has cancelled some Brussels to Frankfurt ICE services due to driver shortages.

If the ICE I want to get is cancelled, can I get on the next Thalys service without paying a passholder supplement?

No, they will only let you on board when your ticket is endorsed with a HOTNAT stamp in case you have missed your ICE due to a delayed Eurostar, TGV or Thalys service, when your ICE has been cancelled they will most likely not take you.
It would be best to have a plan B in case your ICE gets cancelled, involving an intercity train from Brussels to Welkenraedt, then the local train to Aachen and from there German trains to where you need to go, an alternative route from Brussels or an Interrail reservation for the Thalys if there are any available for the train you would like to take.

Also driver shortage is not really the main problem on this route, but rather the availability of rolling stock. A lot of the ICE3M trainsets for this train service have technical defects and this will probably still be the case next month, so cancellations are pretty likely.

 

[Drsatan]

No, they will only let you on board when your ticket is endorsed with a HOTNAT stamp in case you have missed your ICE due to a delayed Eurostar, TGV or Thalys service, when your ICE has been cancelled they will most likely not take you.
It would be best to have a plan B in case your ICE gets cancelled, involving an intercity train from Brussels to Welkenraedt, then the local train to Aachen and from there German trains to where you need to go, an alternative route from Brussels or an Interrail reservation for the Thalys if there are any available for the train you would like to take.

Also driver shortage is not really the main problem on this route, but rather the availability of rolling stock. A lot of the ICE3M trainsets for this train service have technical defects and this will probably still be the case next month, so cancellations are pretty likely.

Thank you, I stand corrected.

 

[dutchflyer]

Note that in theory the timetable for the iCE is ev. 2 hrs. Due to connections and much slower local trains, in fact you´ll end up in K also nearly 2 hr later once you realise/was told on the spot the thing has failed again/has not come in. BUT the next ICE-assuming it will run-will be horrendously overcrowded as result and may only take pax with a reservation.
FROM Bru it is IC-train to Eupen, mostly doubledeck-change Welkenraedt for the decennia old 2-car set to Aachen (Aix la Chapelle in wallon)-then any RE via K onward-also much likely to be delayed later in the day, esp. the prestigious RRX=doubledeck RE1 (via the whole Rhein Ruhr to Hamm). Do not expect any special help or assistance or even this info-its all the usual ´do it by yourself´.

 

[blackfive460]

If your ICE is cancelled from Brussels as others have said, definitely your best bet is the next connection via Welkenraedt and Aachen.
However, on one occasion coming the other way, I missed the ICE due to delays in Germany and since there was a Thalys not long after I got to Koln and I'd nothing to lose I asked and after a bit of begging and a lot of smiling I was allowed to travel but only on a tip up seat so it can be worth a try.

 

[YorkshireBear]

We managed it when we got a stamp off a delayed Eurostar service but otherwise I don't believe it's a goer without, as blackfive460 says, a lot of smiling!

 

[matt]

I did it a few years ago in reverse. I had a reservation on the ICE from Köln to Brussels. It was cancelled so had the reservation endorsed at the ticket office so we could get on the next service which was Thayls

 

[blackfive460]

We managed it when we got a stamp off a delayed Eurostar service but otherwise I don't believe it's a goer without, as blackfive460 says, a lot of smiling!

I did once manage to talk my way onto an earlier Thalys than the one I was booked on and got a proper seat that time too
It must be my smile...

 

[duesselmartin]

the ICE Thalys acceptance is a bit of a hit and miss. If your destination is towards the north or east of Germany, check with the SNCB desk if your ticket is valid via Amsterdam. You can get a train towards Hanover from there.

 

[DanielB]

Via Amsterdam would be quite a slow detour, a quick change in Breda and Deventer (coming from Brussels by IC) will get you into north/east Germany more quickly.

 

[Drsatan]

Thanks for your replies everyone.

Our journey will start from Bruges. We are planning on visiting Leuven along the way to Koln. The DB journey planner suggests that from Leuven, we take an IC service to Liege, changing onto an ICE service to Koln. If the ICE service is cancelled, I understand the IC service from Leuven continues to Welkenraedt, where we change for a train to Aachen.

I have a couple of questions:

1) Is it worth reserving seats from Liege to Koln on the ICE?
2) Is there an alternative route from Leuven to Koln other than taking the slow train via Welkenraedt?

Thanks in advance

 

[DanielB]

The only other route making any sense would be to go from Liège via Maastricht and Heerlen to Aachen and then to Köln.
But I doubt that will be any faster and it requires many additional changes.

 

[blackfive460]

I understand the IC service from Leuven continues to Welkenraedt, where we change for a train to Aachen.

If you end up doing that I would suggest that you change at Verviers. Both the IC and Regional train to Aachen stop there and you may find it easier to get a seat as, if the ICE has been cancelled there'll be an ICE load of passengers all trying to pack into a two car EMU at Welkenraedt!

 

[duesselmartin]

I suspect not many know that trick of travelling with IC or RE services. Most would wait two hours and endure a 200% load ICE.
My DB app also gives me an option of travelling to Eupen and taking a bus to Aachen on one and the same fare.

My general advice, take Thalys if practible. Sadly much more reliable than ICE.

 

[Drsatan]

I suspect not many know that trick of travelling with IC or RE services. Most would wait two hours and endure a 200% load ICE.
My DB app also gives me an option of travelling to Eupen and taking a bus to Aachen on one and the same fare.

My general advice, take Thalys if practible. Sadly much more reliable than ICE.

Thanks, although we're travelling with Interrail passes and trying to avoid paying for reservations.

Looks like we'll be going on the Thalys if the people I'm travelling with don't want to visit Leuven.

Maastricht looks like a nice place to visit if we head there en-route to Koln.

 

[37201xoIM]

Yeah, I was going to mention that bus move. It runs twice per hour and takes 30 minutes-ish. To be fair, hard to think of a scenario in which that would be faster than going to Welkenraedt and waiting for the unit (unless you need the track to Eupen or are desperate for 1800 / I11 mileage!).

 

[Ian99]

We are due to make a 20 minute connection on Friday from the Eurostar to the 1225hrs ICE from Brussels with the ultimate destination being Munich.

I've made some general queries on another thread here and would be grateful for any thoughts on a good plan, if the 1225hrs ICE was cancelled or we missed the connection, so we could get to Munich using our Interrail passes.

Thanks in anticipation.....

 

[duesselmartin]

Both Leuven and Maastricht are worth visiting. If you stopover in Maastricht, there is an hourly regional to Aachen.

 

[blackfive460]

We are due to make a 20 minute connection on Friday from the Eurostar to the 1225hrs ICE from Brussels with the ultimate destination being Munich.

I've made some general queries on another thread here and would be grateful for any thoughts on a good plan, if the 1225hrs ICE was cancelled or we missed the connection, so we could get to Munich using our Interrail passes.

Thanks in anticipation.....

If the 14:25 ICE is running you may as well wait for that but you alternative is an IC from Brussels to Welkenraedt changing there for Aachen followed by an RE service to Köln Hbf arriving at 16:22. From there you'll be able to pick up a southbound ICE probably with a change enroute to München. DB's journey planner suggests that, in the unlikely event of trains running on time, you could be in München at 21:27 with a change at Mannheim.

 

[Ian99]

That's very useful, thank you - do any of the trains require reservations to go with our interrail passes please?

 

[blackfive460]

That's very useful, thank you - do any of the trains require reservations to go with our interrail passes please?

None of the trains I mentioned are compulsory reservation but some ICEs can be very busy so I'd suggest that getting a reservation isn't a bad idea.
The problem you may have is not knowing in advance what trains you will end up using but as long as you have a smartphone with the DB Navigator app loaded you can get reservations on the go.
It's all pretty straight forward but if you get stuck, just ask here!

 

[Beebman]

The Man in Seat 61 had to do the Welkenraedt Shuffle this morning (although he actually changed at Verviers) as the first two ICEs from Bruxelles were cancelled:
https://twitter.com/seatsixtyone/status/1565224993000402945

I've just checked the current situation and the next ICE, the 10:25 from Bruxelles Midi, is currently scheduled to start from Nord at 10:49 but at least it appears to be running. (I'm scheduled to be travelling this way in a few hours' time, hence my interest!)

 

[Ian99]

The forum has merged 2 posts for some reason.

I originally said, "Do they, I wonder, delay the departure time from Nord, ie 1049hrs rather than 1034hrs, to allow time to travel from Midi to Nord?"


I then said,

"I now see that this has changed on the DB site so that a suggestion is as follows:"



Can anyone spot an issue with that connection at Bruxelles-Nord?!

 

[Beebman]

Just to report that I made my connection OK this afternoon at Midi. The 13:01 ES from STP was a couple of minutes late thanks to a signal check at Halle but I made it to P5 at 16:15 where NS-owned ICE unit 4652 was waiting. However the doors were closed which was a little worrying but they opened at 16:20 and departure was just one minute late at 16:23. Now speeding eastwards towards Liège.

 

[37201xoIM]

Just to report that I made my connection OK this afternoon at Midi. The 13:01 ES from STP was a couple of minutes late thanks to a signal check at Halle but I made it to P5 at 16:15 where NS-owned ICE unit 4652 was waiting. However the doors were closed which was a little worrying but they opened at 16:20 and departure was just one minute late at 16:23. Now speeding eastwards towards Liège.

They tend to do that at Midi, which is indeed disconcerting if you're not used to it, and irritating when you are... I assume the staff are on their break during this time. Always reminds me of TPE at Newcastle...

 

[duesselmartin]

I am shocked to read that ICE International is going from bad to worse. What is the point for the turn around at Nord?

 

[30907]

I am shocked to read that ICE International is going from bad to worse. What is the point for the turn around at Nord?

Makes up time, presumably, and most destinations in BE can be reached just as easily from there.
Not sure if the station is fully accessible though? Always looked a bit grotty.

 

[Beebman]

Timetable planning consultant Alex Penfold who was on his way to Innotrans in Berlin has tweeted that he was denied boarding Thalys at Bruxelles Midi today when his ICE was cancelled:

https://twitter.com/alex_penfold/status/1571804988598358019

When he contacted Thalys about Railteam's "Hop on the Next Available Train" policy he was told "I know that is written down but what we do in practice is different".

 

[DeverseSam]

Do not expect any special help or assistance or even this info-its all the usual ´do it by yourself´.

Thank you. Poor state of affairs if an internet forum explains it better than people on the ground.