Trees blocking the railway - safety

[rhizomergence]

Inspired by the disruptions on 23/08 where many trains were delayed/cancelled due to trees blocking lines at various locations, I was wondering how this kind of obstruction can be detected from a safety perspective.

Theoretically, what safety features/protocol would be in place if, say, during regular operations on the WCML in a 125mph section, a tree fell across the line? Would a driver need to see, react to, and report the obstruction? Or are there systems in place to detect that (for example, electrical sensors to test for resistance/current flow across the tracks?)

 

[Llanigraham]

Mark 1 eyeballs!
If they bring the wires down there will be some warning, and it is possible they might trigger the traack circuits.

 

[Envoy]

I really do wonder whether Network Rail are going around looking at trees near the tracks as every time we get a storm, lines get blocked? Surely, the answer is to fell all the trees that could possibly fall onto the tracks? That would also help reduce the problems caused by leaves.

 

[deltic]

I really do wonder whether Network Rail are going around looking at trees near the tracks as every time we get a storm, lines get blocked? Surely, the answer is to fell all the trees that could possibly fall onto the tracks? That would also help reduce the problems caused by leaves.

Most will be on private land so can't just go along and cut them down

 

[a_c_skinner]

Most will be on private land

Just looking at railways round here (Norther England) I'd have thought a large proportion of risky trees, within reach of running lines, are on railway land and didn't we embark on this obvious solution a few years ago to be stopped by the chattering classes?

 

[John Bishop]

Most will be on private land so can't just go along and cut them down

Most trees up here are on NR land within the boundary. It’s getting really bad in places with no signs at all of any action to remedy. Many parts look like a train shaped tree tunnel!

 

[alxndr]

It’s theoretically possible, but highly unlikely, that a tree would cause a track circuit to occupy. Even a very wet tree is unlikely to be sufficiently electrically conductive to shunt the current away from the relay, or happen to fall in just the right way to make a good contact across both rails.

 

[Falcon1200]

Theoretically, what safety features/protocol would be in place if, say, during regular operations on the WCML in a 125mph section, a tree fell across the line?

Blanket speed restrictions when high winds are forecast mitigate the risk.

Surely, the answer is to fell all the trees that could possibly fall onto the tracks? That would also help reduce the problems caused by leaves.

Including those outside the railway - There are, literally, millions of those!

I do agree however that vegetation within the fence must be controlled, and much more than it is at present, however it is a huge, expensive and time-consuming task.

 

[Harpo]

Silver birch is a fast grower (almost half a metre a year) and the number of mature corridors of them inside the boundary fence suggests many years of being left to grow.

The Wokingham - Guildford line has a nice linear SB arboretum and the Stourbridge line towards Brum was noticeable on the way back from the SVR.

Trouble is, Silver Birch isn’t a long life species.

 

[dangie]

Considering the cost and legal implications of lopping/cutting down trees which may encroach onto he railway, nothing can or will be done until there (hopefully not) is a major incident. If this should happen there will then be an investigation with an outcry of why weren’t these trees cut down earlier.

 

[Grumpy Git]

The encroachment of vegetation on the lines I frequent out of Liverpool has to be seen to be believed.

Penny wise, pound foolish springs to mind.

 

[DJP78]

There’s no electrical sensor system I’m aware of. Wood obv isn’t a conductor so won’t short circuit electrical systems.

Network rail P Way workers will report if they see something, as might the public, but all depends on luck of the draw.

Network Rail are more defensive in implementing blanket speed restrictions these days when weather events occur. Especially since the Stonehaven derailment where NR came under criticism for failing to put in place a speed restriction in lieu of exceptionally high rainfall in the Stonehaven area and repeated landslides in the surrounding area in the years before the disaster.

This was also compounded by poor track drainage (Carillion) that investigators said was a clear mitigating factor.

NR have setup two network resilience task-forces in response to Stonehaven. One to look specifically at earth works, the other, extreme weather event responses. Hopefully, NR will be more adept at responding to high winds and would carry out route inspections or be more forthright in putting in place speed restrictions.

Other than that, it’s down to the driver to see it and react.

Would be good to hear a response from someone on the NR side involved in this!

 

[Bikeman78]

Most trees up here are on NR land within the boundary. It’s getting really bad in places with no signs at all of any action to remedy. Many parts look like a train shaped tree tunnel!

Same in west Wales. Constant bashing and scraping along the side of the train. On a 150, people get showered with leaf debris.

 

[theageofthetra]

Mark 1 eyeballs!
If they bring the wires down there will be some warning, and it is possible they might trigger the traack circuits.

No use in the dark on a Networker with useless headlights and lenses that haven't been cleaned in months

 

[Grumpy Git]

I noticed how laterally scratched the sides of a 777 were in Central the other day. It's absolutely bonkers that resources aren't directed to vegetation control.

 

[Bald Rick]

I really do wonder whether Network Rail are going around looking at trees near the tracks as every time we get a storm, lines get blocked? Surely, the answer is to fell all the trees that could possibly fall onto the tracks? That would also help reduce the problems caused by leaves.

Almost every tree that is a risk to the operation of the network has been surveyed and logged (pun intended, and sadly logged as in recorded).

Much as I agree with you, felling every tree that could fall onto the tracks wooudl be an extraordinarily expensive exercise. Hundreds of millions.

Most will be on private land so can't just go along and cut them down

Actually, NR can cut down any tree that poses an immediate risk to safety. And if identified as such, it is a foolish neighbour who doesn’t agree to it.

 

[deltic]

Actually, NR can cut down any tree that poses an immediate risk to safety. And if identified as such, it is a foolish neighbour who doesn’t agree to it.

That's a key part of the problem - it has to be an immediate risk - can't take preventive action in advance which would be cheaper and easier to manage.

 

[Deepgreen]

I really do wonder whether Network Rail are going around looking at trees near the tracks as every time we get a storm, lines get blocked? Surely, the answer is to fell all the trees that could possibly fall onto the tracks? That would also help reduce the problems caused by leaves.

This comes up very frequently, and the age-old problem is that so many trees are on private land. It really is not as simple as it may seem, and the 'natural' remedy of steam causing line-side fires and keeping growth down is obviously not in play anymore.

 

[Brush 4]

It was controllable by not allowing growth in the first place. Too late now, it has been allowed to become a huge problem. Photos from the 60's to the present at any given location reveal the increase in tree and vegetation growth over the decades. Not just in the countryside either, urban locations are also now riddled with branches sprouting out of bridges, retaining walls and buildings. It is a self inflicted problem.

 

[D1024]

Less than 2 weeks ago I travelled from Southampton to Salisbury - first time by train on this journey for many years. I was genuinely surprised approaching Tunnel Junction - site of the serious accident not so long ago - that the Turbo was literally scraping it's way noisily through the lineside vegetation.

 

[Lockwood]

Less than 2 weeks ago I travelled from Southampton to Salisbury - first time by train on this journey for many years. I was genuinely surprised approaching Tunnel Junction - site of the serious accident not so long ago - that the Turbo was literally scraping it's way noisily through the lineside vegetation.

There were some pictures in the thread about that of the view now and the view X years ago. Or was that in the report... Either way, there's evidence around of how much that junction has been covered by foliage

 

[Envoy]

Last week I went up the Bridgend to Maesteg line and it was like going through a jungle. Vegetation was scraping the sides of the train.

 

[dk1]

We don’t seem to have to much of an issue here in East Anglia and when we do report vegetation it gets cut back pretty quickly. Having the 755 fleet on local routes has highlighted the need not to allow overhanging branches as these can cause damage to the lowered pantograph and roof mounted equipment. GA are quite vocal at getting any problem areas sorted quickly with Network Rail.

 

[driverd]

Inspired by the disruptions on 23/08 where many trains were delayed/cancelled due to trees blocking lines at various locations, I was wondering how this kind of obstruction can be detected from a safety perspective.

Theoretically, what safety features/protocol would be in place if, say, during regular operations on the WCML in a 125mph section, a tree fell across the line? Would a driver need to see, react to, and report the obstruction? Or are there systems in place to detect that (for example, electrical sensors to test for resistance/current flow across the tracks?)

In this case, your most likely going to get significant shorting of the OHLE as your first tell. That should be enough to result in cautioning trains through the section and prevent a 125mph train meets tree scenario.

Other areas are essentially down to the tree being spotted and reported, although Network Rail do keep a track of vegetation and risk.

 

[mike57]

I think its pretty general, our local line has bushes and trees close to the track now, which in previous days were kept clear. Here is a picture taken in 1958 (copyright Tony Ross or decendants clipped from the Tony Ross tribute) compared with the same view today taken from the signal box looking towards the loco on the 1958 picture

 

[357]

Last time I hit a tree, NR contractors were out over the next 2 days cutting all the trees down on both sides of the area in question.