Trivia: Electrification that's (likely) never been used.

[mjmason1996]

I visited Newcastle station recently for the first time in a while, and I noticed the wires above the western bay platforms (9-12), this got me thinking on if they've ever been used by an electric train in their life, of course this may have changed recently in
Newcastle's case as maybe TPE have started terminating 800s there, but I do wonder how many examples of this are across the network.

Is there any more examples of electrification which has likely never been used?

 

[CAF397]

Are platforms 7 & 14 (East facing bays) electrified at Leeds? If so, can't be much electric traction that's used them.

 

[507020]

There are a few. The Windermere bay platform at Oxenholme, the overrun from Salford Crescent/Windsor Bridge North Junction on the Atherton line, the overrun from Lostock Junction towards Westhoughton on the Wigan line, electrification on the Ordsall Chord.

The wires to Hazel Grove can only be used when services terminate there. Through services to Buxton or the Hope Valley must be Diesel. Platform 1 at Reigate (used only by DMUs from Reading) is electrified with the 3rd rail but there is no access to this platform for EMUs from the Redhill direction with only a trailing crossover, so it can’t have ever been used at all, although 769s will use it if they ever start running.

 

[Kite159]

Do the 802s fit in the South facing bay platforms at Newcastle or do they have to use one of the through platforms?

I assume you are discounting any wires installed as overruns at junctions, ie the short section of wires on the Basingstoke line at Southcote Junction, the short section of wires heading towards Blackpool South at Kirkham/towards Westhoughton at Lostock (or towards Swinton at Salford) which only get used in the event of a driver/signaller making a mistake and taking the wrong line.

 

[Eskimo]

Until very recently the cables at St. Pancras (MML) were just for decoration. They’d been up 10+ years.

 

[Kite159]

Until very recently the cables at St. Pancras (MML) were just for decoration. They’d been up 10+ years.

For East Midlands services indeed but they would have been used countless times by Thameslink services, especially on Sunday mornings when the Thameslink core is closed and the first few Thameslink trains go from the MML platforms.

 

[Watershed]

I visited Newcastle station recently for the first time in a while, and I noticed the wires above the western bay platforms (9-12), this got me thinking on if they've ever been used by an electric train in their life, of course this may have changed recently in
Newcastle's case as maybe TPE have started terminating 800s there, but I do wonder how many examples of this are across the network.

Is there any more examples of electrification which has likely never been used?

Edit: I've put this in the wrong forum haven't I

There are a number of examples. My favourite is Manchester Victoria platforms 1 and 2. Obviously it was sensible to wire them as part of the electrification of the station, but given the current limit of electrification (Bromley Street Junction, just to the east of the station), the only time you'll ever see an EMU in there is if it's shunted there for some sort of stabling. It wouldn't depart or arrive in passenger service.

Carlisle platforms 7 and 8 are unlikely to be used by electric trains very often, although it's plausible it might happen during certain engineering works. Similarly platforms 5 and 6, this time simply because usually they're too busy with Northern DMUs for any electric unit to get a look-in.

The west side Newcastle bays can't accommodate anything longer than a 4 coach Voyager. So yes, I agree, it's unlikely the electrification there is used with any regularity, because all of the electric trains used in the area are longer than that. Perhaps they saw a 90 or 91 light loco in days of yore.

Are platforms 7 & 14 (East facing bays) electrified at Leeds? If so, can't be much electric traction that's used them.

They are. Agreed, it'd be an unusual set of circumstances where an EMU found its way there - as with Manchester Victoria, you'd have to do a shunt at the east end (or be running to/from Neville Hill) to run an EMU in there.

The Windermere bay platform at Oxenholme

Until the recent timetable reduction, this was used on a daily basis by 397s (on 1C88/5C88). It's also used during certain engineering works.

the overrun from Salford Crescent/Windsor Bridge North Junction on the Atherton line, the overrun from Lostock Junction towards Westhoughton on the Wigan line,

I think you could go on forever if you counted all the overruns to non-electrified lines!

electrification on the Ordsall Chord.

Close but no cigar. 1S56 (formed of a 397) starts at Manchester Victoria on a Sunday, so the ECS from Longsight is booked to use the Ordsall Chord. It's also used during some engineering works and can be used by Northern ECSs between the Victoria Turnback siding and the Castlefield corridor/Airport.

 

[AM9]

For East Midlands services indeed but they would have been used countless times by Thameslink services, especially on Sunday mornings when the Thameslink core is closed and the first few Thameslink trains go from the MML platforms.

They were used continuously during the core block when the low level station box was being built.

 

[Watershed]

Do the 802s fit in the South facing bay platforms at Newcastle or do they have to use one of the through platforms?

South facing could be used to describe either side of the station

No, 802s don't fit in the western bays at Newcastle.

 

[Llama]

The Ordsall Chord used to have at least one 319 routed round it every day.

The bays at Manchester Victoria can be used for a westbound departure with passengers, but it's extremely rare - I've only ever done it once, a few years ago I started a train for Wigan from platform 1. Any such movement with a passenger train must be routed to the Down Rochdale Slow line to change ends between main aspect signals. But obviously that example wasn't an electric unit.

There has been the odd electric unit stabled in the bays at Manchester Victoria but not many, and the electrification east of the ends of the platforms at MCV has only just been recommissioned following the work between Manchester Victoria East Jn and Bromley St Jn last summer.

I would say that 'overruns' onto non-electrified lines shouldn't count because they are not intended to be available to electric traction.

There will be plenty of crossovers that are wired but almost never used by electric traction.

 

[MadMac]

Sunnyside-Whifflet was wired specifically for diversions associated with the 1991 resignalling at Newton, but has had no scheduled passenger service since and almost certainly no electric freight. Similarly, Mossend-Wishaw was wired as part of Weaver Junction-Glasgow but had no scheduled passenger service for many years thereafter. Larkfield-Shields and Muirhouse-Terminus Junction are other possibilities.

 

[Mcr Warrior]

Must be a few short overrun sections of OHLE immediately beyond "No Electric Trains Past This Point" signage.

Possibly at Carnforth on the Barrow-in-Furness line?

 

[DanNCL]

Some examples I can think of where there hasn’t ever been any booked passenger workings using electric stock:
Newcastle Platforms 9-12
York Platforms 1 and 8
Doncaster Platforms 2 and 5

Historically Newcastle platforms 1 and 5-8 would have been applicable.

Newcastle platform 1:
Too short for Mark 4 sets. Now sees TPE 802s.

Newcastle platforms 5-8:
Mark 4 sets prohibited. These platforms now see TPE 802s.

Newcastle platforms 9-12:
Too short for any electric stock that serves Newcastle, including the TPE 802s. Have occasionally been used to stable 86s and 90s.

York platform 2:
Too short for Mark 4 sets. Have occasionally been used to stable 86s and 90s.

York platform 8:
Too short for Mark 4 sets, and despite being electrified only serves Harrogate line trains. I’m not aware of any record of an electric loco visiting York platform 8.

Doncaster platforms 2 and 5:
South facing bay platforms - all terminating services from the south require DMUs. Have been used to stable light 91s

Perhaps worthy of a mention is Sunderland Burdon Dock number 2 siding immediately south of Sunderland station. Though number 1 siding is unelectrified, number 2 siding is electrified for metro trains. However it is very rarely used as it requires special procedures. I’m not sure if this is still the case - historically Metro drivers were not track competent for Network Rail infrastructure. As metro units always operate in pairs and are not walkthrough, use of Burdon Dock number 2 siding required a driver in both units, both of whom had to stay with the train the entire time it was in the siding.
Also electrified on the Sunderland line is the goods loop near East Boldon - Metro units aren’t booked to use it in service (although I do recall once, many years ago, being routed through the goods loop on a Metro service, I can’t remember why that happened) and it’s use by electric trains is therefore limited.

Carlisle platforms 7 and 8 are unlikely to be used by electric trains very often, although it's plausible it might happen during certain engineering works. Similarly platforms 5 and 6, this time simply because usually they're too busy with Northern DMUs for any electric unit to get a look-in.

Though they’re seldom used by electric stock now they were regularly used by AC locos in the BR era. I seem to recall there were some moves, prior to sectorisation, where coaches detached from the front of the train at Carlisle from northbound services were shunted into platforms 7/8 by the AC loco that hauled them north, with the AC loco then returning to platform 3 to take the remainder of the train on to Glasgow.

In recent years I’ve seen a 90 in platform 8 and a 397 in platform 5, but neither are regular occurrences.

 

[MattRat]

Platforms 7 and 8 in Lime Street. Always reserved for Northern diesels only it seems. 6 used to also technically count, but then they swapped services coming in and LNWR comes in on 6 with the EMR diesel now on 10, although even before that 6 saw the occasional electric that sat there to wait for it's actual platform to become free.

 

[Strathclyder]

Sunnyside-Whifflet was wired specifically for diversions associated with the 1991 resignalling at Newton, but has had no scheduled passenger service since and almost certainly no electric freight. Similarly, Mossend-Wishaw was wired as part of Weaver Junction-Glasgow but had no scheduled passenger service for many years thereafter. Larkfield-Shields and Muithouse-Terminus Junction are other possibilities.

Sunnyside-Whifflet I beileve has been used a few times by diverted Argyle Line services - not regularly scheduled ofc - in the event of major incidents which have closed parts of the Argyle Line (at least in the past), most notably in the aftermath of the Newton crash in July 1991 and IIRC after the Argyle Line through Glasgow City Centre was flooded after the River Kelvin burst it's banks in December 1994.

 

[Jorge Da Silva]

There are some wires just near the South Humberside Main LIne near Doncaster for a good distance as an overrun

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

Platforms 7 and 8 in Lime Street. Always reserved for Northern diesels only it seems. 6 used to also technically count, but then they swapped services coming in and LNWR comes in on 6 with the EMR diesel now on 10, although even before that 6 saw the occasional electric that sat there to wait for it's actual platform to become free.

The northern shed at Lime St was hardly used by electric stock before the recent Chat Moss wiring, especially when 170s were on the Birmingham run.
The original Crewe-Manchester/Liverpool wiring included many sidings which were little, if ever used - mostly dismantled now, but the steelwork is often still in situ.
The disused rising gradient east of Edge Hill still has wires on it part way.

In the past, Wolverhampton-Stafford and Carstairs-Edinburgh have been hardly used by electric stock (mainly because Voyagers rather than electric stock were used).
Colwich-Stone almost became redundant at one point under BR.

 

[Dai Corner]

The Relief lines between Severn Tunnel Junction and Cardiff, though they may see some electric trains for the upcoming Six Nations Rugby matches in Cardiff and during engineering work.

 

[Eskimo]

Pretty certain there are wires over 6 and 7 at Nuneaton.. has anything electric ever terminated there?

For East Midlands services indeed but they would have been used countless times by Thameslink services, especially on Sunday mornings when the Thameslink core is closed and the first few Thameslink trains go from the MML platforms.

Ahh, of course!

Slightly off topic, but do the MML platforms hold 12-car sets?

 

[59CosG95]

Pretty certain there are wires over 6 and 7 at Nuneaton.. has anything electric ever terminated there?

I think the wires through P6/7 are purely there to facilitate the first few chains of wires towards Leicester. Part of me thinks that NR should have extended the wires over the new flyover to tie in with the wires from Abbey Jn (in the area around the B4114), and down the North Chord - but that's just me wanting everything wired at once

 

[zwk500]

Must be a few short overrun sections of OHLE immediately beyond "No Electric Trains Past This Point" signage.

Possibly at Carnforth on the Barrow-in-Furness line?

Carnforth is used regularly by Charters changing from Electric to steam. The 86 comes off the train and runs through the station into the headshunt (usually via the goods road but if it's occupied it will use Platform 2). The overrun into P1 was also used when new units were being tested a couple of years ago. I think it was also used for the loco-hauled Barrow trains in days of yore.

 

[AM9]

Pretty certain there are wires over 6 and 7 at Nuneaton.. has anything electric ever terminated there?


Ahh, of course!

Slightly off topic, but do the MML platforms hold 12-car sets?

They should do because eventually peak Corby services may be operated with 3 x 4-car Class 360s. Also remember, the class 360 and 700 EMUs are formed of 20m* cars, unlike the 23m* Meridian sets.

* nominal

 

[Cheshire Scot]

The Ordsall Chord used to have at least one 319 routed round it every day.

Also used to have 802s which ran electric Airport to Victoria on the Airport to Newcastle circuit

 

[Put Kettle On]

and Carstairs-Edinburgh have been hardly used by electric stock (mainly because Voyagers rather than electric stock were used).

Carstairs - Edinburgh was very much used soon after electrified, as there were daily 91s to & from Glasgow . The former splitting & joining trains that used Carstairs en route to Edinburgh now ran as separate trains with electric power avoiding the station .
Electric stock ( loco hauled & EMU ) for the North Berwick services also used the line to Shields in the case of the 305s
So, since opening to electric traction, the line has been used very much by it .

 

[swt_passenger]

How much use do all the electrified loops north of Newcastle ever get? Or the odd electrified sidings such as into Alnmouth‘s former coal yard…

 

[d9009alycidon]

Carlisle platforms 7 and 8 are unlikely to be used by electric trains very often, although it's plausible it might happen during certain engineering works. Similarly platforms 5 and 6, this time simply because usually they're too busy with Northern DMUs for any electric unit to get a look-in.

Carlisle platform 7 used to be regularly used by the evening Carlisle Perth service, and platform 8 was used to stable sleeping cars so may have seen an electric pilot used. Unlikely ever to see any electric trains again unless the GSW is electrified.
One that amazed me was Millerhill yard which was wired as part of the ECML job, very few if any electric hauled freights but it was used briefly for storing class 91s just before the electric service started. They even wired tracks through the F&M depot and I have no recollection of any electric locos being stabled there

Larkfield-Shields and Muirhouse-Terminus Junction were mentioned as other possibilities. - never used for passenger but both are handy routes in and out of Shields depot for ECS workings. I have been over Larkfield-Shields in a class 305 EMU on a railtour, which also worked out to Ayr Townhead with me and other pax on board. Talking of Ayr, three loops were wired in Falkland Yard, but I dont think anything electric ever used them.

 

[Cheshire Scot]

Larkfield-Shields and Muirhouse-Terminus Junction were mentioned as other possibilities. - never used for passenger but both are handy routes in and out of Shields depot for ECS workings. I have been over Larkfield-Shields in a class 305 EMU on a railtour, which also worked out to Ayr Townhead with me and other pax on board. Talking of Ayr, three loops were wired in Falkland Yard, but I dont think anything electric ever used them.

Larkfield - Shields has been used for diverted passenger trains when the route through Eglinton Street and including the route off the Cathcart circle have been blocked for engineering.

 

[gimmea50anyday]

Do the 802s fit in the South facing bay platforms at Newcastle or do they have to use one of the through platforms?

No, 802s don't fit in the western bays at Newcastle.

Managed to fit a 6 car 185 on to platform 9 once. Well, when I say fit it was more of a case of “oh flick, we weren’t meant to do that….” Still, it proved that 5 could fit on the platform and still be behind the signal….. just, But 6 definitely didn’t.

there is talk of remodelling the west end to enable the bays to accommodate 6x 23 or 5x 26 but this may result in loss of the forth banks siding. It’s only used for stabling and doesn't see use by engineering trains down to the former goods station any more so wouldn’t be a great loss.

 

[rower40]

Darlington south-facing bays platforms 2 and 3?

 

[whoosh]

The Down Bay at Gordon Hill.

Trump that!