TRIVIA: Limited-stop bus services

[AY1975]

Stagecoach has put out a consultation leaflet about proposed changes to service 50/50a/50b (Sheffield-Mosborough-Eckington-Chesterfield). They are proposing to make the service limited-stop between Sheffield Interchange and Birley Lane, Hackenthorpe from 2nd September. At the same time they plan to introduce new buses on the route.

The consultation runs until 15th June. There is also an online consultation form at https://www.stagecoachbus.com/promos-and-offers/yorkshire/50-consultation

The idea is that the route will only serve certain stops as far as Hackenthorpe to provide faster journey times for passengers making journeys such as Sheffield city centre to Mosborough or Eckington. They will still observe all stops between Hackenthorpe and Chesterfield.

I would guess that passengers from places like Mosborough and Eckington would benefit from shorter journey times to and from Sheffield if they are going to the city centre. However, they could be inconvenienced if they want to get to any of the stops where the 50 will no longer call - for example if they live in Mosborough and need to drop off or collect their kids at the nursery at the bottom of Hopefield Avenue, Frecheville, although that stop will presumably still be served by the 53 (Sheffield-Mansfield) and the 71 (Sheffield-Killamarsh-Chesterfield) unless they decide to do the same with those routes as well! And of course those stops will still be served by the 120 (Fulwood-Halfway).

Can anyone think of any other examples of limited-stop bus services? I guess there are two types of limited-stop service:

(a) Services that run for all or part of their journey along motorways or dual-carriageway roads where there are very few or no intermediate stops anyway, and

(b) Services that don't observe all the stops that they go past for all or part of their journey.

If this proposed change to service 50 is implemented, it would be type (b).

Or can you think of any services that currently observe all stops, but where limited-stop operation might be a good idea?

 

[overthewater]

Nearly all bus routes

 

[theblackwatch]

Can anyone think of any other examples of limited-stop bus services?

Not far from me we have two Transdev operations 'CITYZAP' from York to Leeds and Leeds to Manchester via Ainley Top.

I'm sure that back in the 'good old days', express bus services were normally prefixed with an 'X'.

 

[AY1975]

Nearly all bus routes

I presume you mean limited-stop operation would be a good idea on nearly all bus routes?

I guess limited-stop operation is mainly on medium- to long-distance routes that pass through areas that are already well served by shorter-distance routes, to improve reliability and reduce journey times for passengers making longer-distance journeys.

 

[higthomas]

In London there's the X26, 607 and X68.

 

[AY1975]

Not far from me we have two Transdev operations 'CITYZAP' from York to Leeds and Leeds to Manchester via Ainley Top.

I'm sure that back in the 'good old days', express bus services were normally prefixed with an 'X'.

They still are in some places, for example Stagecoach's X17 Sheffield-Chesterfield-Matlock. AFAIK it observes all stops within the Sheffield city boundaries (though maybe it should run limited-stop on this section), then runs non-stop via the Dronfield bypass to Chesterfield, and after that it observes all stops to Matlock.

Mind you, I've sometimes heard of people trying to get on the X17 just south of Sheffield city centre for a short-hop journey into town and being told by the driver that they can't get on as it's a set-down only stop. I've never had any problems using it for travel within Sheffield myself, though (see also my thread on buses that make pick-up or set-down only stops at https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/trivia-buses-that-stop-to-pick-up-or-set-down-only.164834/).

 

[A Challenge]

I presume you mean limited-stop operation would be a good idea on nearly all bus routes?

Most bus services have request stops on their routes I think.

 

[AY1975]

Most bus services have request stops on their routes I think.

AFAIK that's the case just about everywhere. But there is a difference between stopping at a stop if requested, and not observing certain stops at all. It is in the latter case that a route is classed as limited-stop.

 

[overthewater]

Try and tell that to the stupid passengers...

 

[Ianno87]

Cambridge examples:-

X5 (Oxford-Cambridge)

The 5 Park and Ride services (before 1830)

Busway services through Cambridge City Centre, and on the busway to/from Addenbrooke's hospital (essentially express from the station)

The Sunday Route out to Saffron Walden which runs on the M11 between Trumpington and IWM Duxford


Bolton example: 300 to/from Trafford Centre via the M60.

 

[ag51ruk]

In Derby the Villager V1 is limited stop between Derby and the Royal Derby Hospital, then all stops to Burton. Express buses that are limited stop for at least part of their journey from Derby include the X38 to Burton, Red Arrow to Nottingham and Transpeak to Manchester, the Comet to Chesterfield, Ilkeston Flyer...

All are current or former Trent Barton routes that have alternative local buses on the limited stop sections

 

[Dentonian]

Most bus services have request stops on their routes I think.

Technically, I think all bus stops outside Greater London are "request stops". Even timing points are request stops in that if the bus is running late, it will not stop if there is nobody signalling to get on or off.

 

[Dentonian]

Or can you think of any services that currently observe all stops, but where limited-stop operation might be a good idea?

In theory yes, but in practice, No.

Most Limited stop services in Greater Manchester have been withdrawn or converted to all stops, because there was no actually point in them being limited stop. Bearing in mind most were peak hour only on urban corridors, all that happened was that limited stop buses were crawling through the same traffic jams as "normal" services, but aggravated intending passengers because they couldn't legally stop.

 

[Kent Dreamer]

Down in Thanet there’s the 9X which is all stops from Broadstairs through Ramsgate to Sarre, and then set down only between there and Canterbury.

Lothian buses in Edinburgh also run a number of limited stop routes during peak times.

 

[vlad]

The Manchester to Derby Transpeak is limited-stop for most of its route (I think it's only Buxton to Matlock where all stops could be used).

 

[Mwanesh]

They still are in some places, for example Stagecoach's X17 Sheffield-Chesterfield-Matlock. AFAIK it observes all stops within the Sheffield city boundaries (though maybe it should run limited-stop on this section), then runs non-stop via the Dronfield bypass to Chesterfield, and after that it observes all stops to Matlock.

Mind you, I've sometimes heard of people trying to get on the X17 just south of Sheffield city centre for a short-hop journey into town and being told by the driver that they can't get on as it's a set-down only stop. I've never had any problems using it for travel within Sheffield myself, though (see also my thread on buses that make pick-up or set-down only stops at https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/trivia-buses-that-stop-to-pick-up-or-set-down-only.164834/).

It does not stop at all stops in Sheffield.Greenhill roundabout, Library opposite KFC at the Traffic lights then the retail park then non stop into town

 

[asw22]

X98 X99 between Wetherby and Leeds are limited stop between Oakwood and Leeds (inbound drop off only, outbound pick up only).
X84 Leeds to Ilkley
X6 Leeds to Bradford is a limited stop on a 10 minute frequency which must be one of the most frequent limited stops in the UK?

 

[Alex 2901]

At least 15 full Limited Stop services exist round the West Midlands...

907, 934, 935, 936, 937, 937A, 952, 997 run Limited Stop between Birmingham City Centre and Perry Barr.
X51 runs non stop between City Centre and Alexander Stadium, shaving off an impressive 15 minutes from the journey time, and runs every 10 minutes off peak, up to every 7 at peak times.
X1, X2 are Limited Stop between City Centre and Yardley, Swan Island.
X3, X4, X5, X14 run non stop to Gravelly Hill
X10 is Limited Stop along the Hagley Road, out to Quinton Church.
X12, X70 run non stop from the City Centre out to Bromford Bridge.
X61 runs Limited Stop along the Bristol Road, out to Northfield.

Then there's the X64, which isn't limited stop or express at all, and the X96 which uses the A4036 to get from Dudley to Woodside

 

[PeterC]

Try and tell that to the stupid passengers...

I wouldn't phrase it like that myself but it is difficult getting over the idea of "limited stop" to the general public. I have even heard of people ringing the bell on a rail replacement buse to alight at a stop between stations. Not that this is anything new, somewhere in my bookshelves I have a copy of Buses Illustrated from the 60s that includes an account of people attempting to board a trolleybus being towed to a rally!

All the route that I can think of where it has been attempted in parallel with a stopping service there have been very vocal complaints. What did work, pre ENCTS, was differential fares.

 

[AndrewE]

I wouldn't phrase it like that myself but it is difficult getting over the idea of "limited stop" to the general public. I have even heard of people ringing the bell on a rail replacement buse to alight at a stop between stations. Not that this is anything new, somewhere in my bookshelves I have a copy of Buses Illustrated from the 60s that includes an account of people attempting to board a trolleybus being towed to a rally!

All the route that I can think of where it has been attempted in parallel with a stopping service there have been very vocal complaints. What did work, pre ENCTS, was differential fares.

Or London Transport/ Country buses/ London Country's Green Line Coaches along a number of axes, e.g. the 707 and 708 along the 301 bus route on the A41 out to Aylesbury in the 1960s

 

[Ianno87]

I wouldn't phrase it like that myself but it is difficult getting over the idea of "limited stop" to the general public. I have even heard of people ringing the bell on a rail replacement buse to alight at a stop between stations. Not that this is anything new, somewhere in my bookshelves I have a copy of Buses Illustrated from the 60s that includes an account of people attempting to board a trolleybus being towed to a rally!

All the route that I can think of where it has been attempted in parallel with a stopping service there have been very vocal complaints. What did work, pre ENCTS, was differential fares.

What often helps is having an obviously different type/colour if bus. Used to work on the former 400 Bolton-Rochdale-Ashton-Stockport Translancs Express which paralleled the entire 471 and 409.

 

[PeterC]

Or London Transport/ Country buses/ London Country's Green Line Coaches along a number of axes, e.g. the 707 and 708 along the 301 bus route on the A41 out to Aylesbury in the 1960s

Differential fares did the trick, on most stages there was no short-hop fare. In 66 it was as much as 2 shillings minimum to board in the Central (red bus) area.

 

[gka472l]

In the Merseyside area, Stagecoach operates the X8 between Liverpool & Chester which is non stop between Liverpool city centre & the first stop off the New Ferry by pass at Port Sunlight, also you would expect the X2 between Liverpool & Preston to be limited stop, but it seems to observe all stops with in the urban Liverpool area....that said, it does well enough to have gained new vehicles in the shape of 11 Scania/E400MMC recently....

 

[Fawkes Cat]

In the Merseyside area, Stagecoach (...) you would expect the X2 between Liverpool & Preston to be limited stop, but it seems to observe all stops with in the urban Liverpool area

I think that the X2 is limited stop between Preston and Southport, then all stops to Liverpool. But neither the Merseytravel nor Stagecoach websites seem to confirm or deny this.

It does give me an opportunity to have a quick ride around on a hobby horse though. Given (a) the number of Liverpool buses from Crosby and (b) the distance from Crosby village to Merseyrail services at Blundellsands & Crosby or alternatively Waterloo, why on earth are there no limited-stop buses from Crosby? With broadly three routes available from Bootle town centre (Stanley Road/Scotland Road, Stanley Road/Commercial Road/Vauxhall Road and Derby Road/Great Howard Street) it would surely be possible to find a quick route Crosby - Bootle - Liverpool most of the time, giving Crosby village a decent commuter / shopping service to town rather than getting slowed down with Crosby - Waterloo - Seaforth - Bootle - Kirkdale - Liverpool short hops.

 

[AY1975]

It does not stop at all stops in Sheffield.Greenhill roundabout, Library opposite KFC at the Traffic lights then the retail park then non stop into town

I presume you mean Heeley Retail Park?

I've got on it at the stop by the railway bridge on Chesterfield Road in Heeley many times to go into Sheffield city centre, and last year I once got on it at the stop almost opposite that one (but the other side of the railway bridge) to go to Matlock. I am fairly sure that it does observe all stops in Sheffield - it does call at that one anyway.

 

[Mwanesh]

I presume you mean Heeley Retail Park?

I've got on it at the stop by the railway bridge on Chesterfield Road in Heeley many times to go into Sheffield city centre, and last year I once got on it at the stop almost opposite that one (but the other side of the railway bridge) to go to Matlock. I am fairly sure that it does observe all stops in Sheffield - it does call at that one anyway.

It does stop there .Try the one before it wont stop even to drop off.Most people used to catch it from Chesterfied because it was quicker than the 43 but some wanted Morrisons it does not stop there

 

[samogers]

Brighton & Hove Buses 28,29,29B (The 'Regency Route'), are limited stop between Brighton Churchill Square and Coldean Lane (just outside Falmer)

The 29X is a peak service that is limited stop for its whole journey between Brighton and Tunbridge Wells

 

[bluenoxid]

In addition to routes noted above, we have the X7 into north Leeds, X11 Leeds-Bradford and X14 Leeds to Pudsey.

 

[Statto]

I think that the X2 is limited stop between Preston and Southport, then all stops to Liverpool. But neither the Merseytravel nor Stagecoach websites seem to confirm or deny this.

It does give me an opportunity to have a quick ride around on a hobby horse though. Given (a) the number of Liverpool buses from Crosby and (b) the distance from Crosby village to Merseyrail services at Blundellsands & Crosby or alternatively Waterloo, why on earth are there no limited-stop buses from Crosby? With broadly three routes available from Bootle town centre (Stanley Road/Scotland Road, Stanley Road/Commercial Road/Vauxhall Road and Derby Road/Great Howard Street) it would surely be possible to find a quick route Crosby - Bootle - Liverpool most of the time, giving Crosby village a decent commuter / shopping service to town rather than getting slowed down with Crosby - Waterloo - Seaforth - Bootle - Kirkdale - Liverpool short hops.

X2 is limited stop Preston-Banks then all stops to Liverpool, the timetable confirms this https://www.merseytravel.gov.uk/get... Liverpool - Preston (from 25 March 2018).pdf


There is also X1 Liverpool-Runcorn limited stop & non stop Speke Woodend Avenue to Runcorn High Street Bus Station.

West Midlands there's the X51 Walsall-Birmingham[some journeys to & from Cannock in the peaks] limited stop, & non stop Perry Barr to City Centre, love going on this route thrashing down the overpasses & underpasses on the A34, also 934/935/936/937/997/997E plus a few more routes that are part limited stop.

 

[daodao]

In theory yes, but in practice, No.

Most Limited stop services in Greater Manchester have been withdrawn or converted to all stops, because there was no actually point in them being limited stop. Bearing in mind most were peak hour only on urban corridors, all that happened was that limited stop buses were crawling through the same traffic jams as "normal" services, but aggravated intending passengers because they couldn't legally stop.

M/c Corporation Transport ran many all day Limited Stop (LS) routes, some jointly with NWRCC and others with outlying municipalities, before they were incorporated into SELNEC. They were introduced to provide fast services to outer suburbs beyond the existing tram routes and ran LS when parallel with the trams to avoid extracting excessive revenue from them. The 3rd front blind on the city's buses, generally used for intermediate destinations, was changed to "LIMITED STOP" on these routes to warn intending passengers. Many of these services were introduced about 1930 as cross-city routes (aka Green Line in London), but were then split because of city centre congestion. Virtually none are left.

I remember the 101 from Piccadilly to Greenbrow Road, which was the fastest way from my childhood home near Southern Cemetery to the city centre. I recall it only stopped in Moss Side and Whitworth Street and took about 15 minutes for the trip; the dual carriageway Princess Road allowed fast running. The 101 still runs on essentially its original route, but is now "all stop", as most other bus routes to Wythenshawe have been withdrawn.