Trivia:Major design faults

[Bletchleyite]

Fair point, I'm not keen on moving people's things without asking though. I've had people manhandling my bike on trains before (and almost breaking parts), and I don't appreciate it.

No, I meant *they* should put it in the overhead, asking someone for assistance if necessary.

Though if someone's bag is where I want to sit, I'll ask them to shift it once, and if they then don't I will shift it; seats are not for bags on full-and-standing trains.

 

[najaB]

The 5th, 6th and 7th coaches on Cross Country Voyagers - the fact that they don't exist.

In the same vein - not building a pantograph well and wiring ducts for cross feed cabling into the Voyagers when new.

 

[Tw99]

For a long time on HSTs you always got a horrible smell of brake material when they were slowing down.

I haven't smelt this for a while, so not sure if they changed the brake material, moved the aircon inlet, or I've just been lucky...

 

[johnw]

The Corby service on the midland main line meaning customers from Luton, Bedford, Wellingborough and Kettering loosing a useful northbound train for a destination that nobody in their right mind wants to travel to or live in.

 

[AndrewE]

For a long time on HSTs you always got a horrible smell of brake material when they were slowing down.

I haven't smelt this for a while, so not sure if they changed the brake material, moved the aircon inlet, or I've just been lucky...

They added a damper/flap that closed off the ventilation air inlet when the brakes were applied... So that was definitely a recognition of a design fault.

Also the recirculation of air (and smells) in the Mk III sleepers, they either added a carbon filter as an afterthought or they had to up their game in servicing and maintaining them.
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Howells Mark 1 SL35 replacement LED light engines.
Great idea, appalling failure rate.

I have no idea at all what one of those might be!

 

[Bletchleyite]

For a long time on HSTs you always got a horrible smell of brake material when they were slowing down.

I haven't smelt this for a while, so not sure if they changed the brake material, moved the aircon inlet, or I've just been lucky...

They did a modification to close the air inlets when the brakes go on.

 

[takno]

They did a modification to close the air inlets when the brakes go on.

Any idea when the mod happened? You still seem to get the smell but only very occasionally, I'd guess like might happen if the linkage between the air inlets and the brakes has gone wrong

 

[RichmondCommu]

Mk3 coaches should never have been built with manually operated doors. It should have been obvious that they require too much time and effort from the passengers.

 

[najaB]

It should have been obvious that they require too much time and effort from the passengers.

Largely because the handles are on the outside and you can't open them until the CDL releases - and (we covered earlier in the thread) there were handles on the inside and no CDL when they were introduced.

Out of curiosity, what stock had power doors in 1976?

 

[zuriblue]

Largely because the handles are on the outside and you can't open them until the CDL releases - and (we covered earlier in the thread) there were handles on the inside and no CDL when they were introduced.

Out of curiosity, what stock had power doors in 1976?

Only ones I can think of were the 303s and 506s. The PEP stock was starting to appear as well.

 

[RichmondCommu]

Out of curiosity, what stock had power doors in 1976?

The 313's? In terms of Intercity style stock with power doors BR should have talked to the SNCF regarding their Corail stock which from memory was introduced at around the same time.
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Largely because the handles are on the outside and you can't open them until the CDL releases - and (we covered earlier in the thread) there were handles on the inside and no CDL when they were introduced.

For what its worth in my opinion they required too much time and effort way before CDL was even thought of.

 

[ge-gn]

I have no idea at all what one of those might be!

A replacement for the standard SL35 colour light signal incandescent lamp. Great idea, but barely tested due to the powers that be being over eager to replace the SL35 and allow maintenance to be reduced, therefore allowing costs to be cut.

The faults quickly became apparent to fault teams out in the field.

Still the mk3 is on its way....

 

[SpacePhoenix]

Mk3 coaches should never have been built with manually operated doors. It should have been obvious that they require too much time and effort from the passengers.

Largely because the handles are on the outside and you can't open them until the CDL releases - and (we covered earlier in the thread) there were handles on the inside and no CDL when they were introduced.

Out of curiosity, what stock had power doors in 1976?

Should they have been retrofitted with power doors like used by the class 442s once the 442s were introduced?

 

[coppercapped]

Mk3 coaches should never have been built with manually operated doors. It should have been obvious that they require too much time and effort from the passengers.

The doors were no different to those used in the last builds of Mk 2 stock. As people had been used to opening and closing carriage doors themselves over the previous 150 years it wasn't as if they were asked to do something new.

At the time power doors were expensive and the only commonly used ones in the UK were sliding, not swing-plug, doors in suburban units. The UndergrounD used them for obvious reasons, but spending such money on long distance stock which made stops only every hour or so seemed to be money that was being thrown away. Much better to build a few more coaches.

That the doors now seem old-fashioned is because the trains lasted so long.

 

[61653 HTAFC]

Largely because the handles are on the outside and you can't open them until the CDL releases - and (we covered earlier in the thread) there were handles on the inside and no CDL when they were introduced.

Out of curiosity, what stock had power doors in 1976?

Power doors have been possible since a fair while prior to WW2. LMS and LNER electric units had powered doors, as did tube stock. How secure the locking/interlocking on these systems was, I'm not sure though- probably safe to assume that it would be no less safe than non-CDL slam doors, and being sliders would be less likely to pop open if someone leaned or fell against it.

 

[najaB]

For what its worth in my opinion they required too much time and effort way before CDL was even thought of.

With a handle on the inside and no CDL I can't see how they would be too much time and effort - unless you consider entering your front door at home to be too much time and effort!

 

[Cowley]

The 313's? In terms of Intercity style stock with power doors BR should have talked to the SNCF regarding their Corail stock which from memory was introduced at around the same time.
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For what its worth in my opinion they required too much time and effort way before CDL was even thought of.

What sort of doors did the APT have (APT-E and APT-P)? I've never opened one but I know a man that has...

 

[najaB]

What sort of doors did the APT have (APT-E and APT-P)? I've never opened one but I know a man that has...

From photos on the net they look like sliding plug doors, but it's hard to tell.

 

[40129]

IIRC the BR trains with power doors in 1976 were classes 303, 306, 311, 313, 502, 503 and 506.

Regarding, the mk3s, how long did the inside door handle last? I've travelled on them intermittently since c.1980 and can only ever remember them having external handles only

 

[Clarence Yard]

IIRC the BR trains with power doors in 1976 were classes 303, 306, 311, 313, 502, 503 and 506.

Regarding, the mk3s, how long did the inside door handle last? I've travelled on them intermittently since c.1980 and can only ever remember them having external handles only

I don't believe they ever had them, certainly not on the ECML ones. Interior door handles were last seen on new stock on the IID and they didn't last long, thanks to a series of fatal accidents.

 

[RichmondCommu]

What sort of doors did the APT have (APT-E and APT-P)? I've never opened one but I know a man that has...

All l can remember is that they were powered

 

[Cowley]

I all can remember is that they were powered

Aha!

 

[Signal Head]

Pacer gearboxes as originally fitted, which tended to break after a few years.

Break, or fall off.

 

[thenorthern]

What sort of doors did the APT have (APT-E and APT-P)? I've never opened one but I know a man that has...

APT-P had electric plug doors but they blended in very well with the paint work so they weren't that easy to notice.

 

[Signal Head]

I don't think they suffered from design faults as such (and the design was done in Britain, Doncaster I believe), but what they did have was manufacturing faults, a significant proportion of which were not following the design, using substituted materials (some blatantly apparent), and poor standards of assembly. The overriding issue was not having adequate inspectors from Britain overseeing the work, but as the whole idea behind Romanian build was to minimise cost, presumably that had been cut out as well.

Now we do similar with signalling.

 

[RichmondCommu]

APT-P had electric plug doors but they blended in very well with the paint work so they weren't that easy to notice.

Well they were when they were opened!

 

[najaB]

I don't believe they ever had them, certainly not on the ECML ones.

It's been posted on the forum that they are still there, behind a covering plate.

 

[RichmondCommu]

With a handle on the inside and no CDL I can't see how they would be too much time and effort - unless you consider entering your front door at home to be too much time and effort!

The handle on the inside was very stiff to use, at least in my experience. If the handle on my front door had been such a nuisance I would have asked for it to be replaced.

 

[mr_jarhead]

Shepherd's Bush LO station with its too narrow platform that had to be subsequently redesigned?

 

[D6975]

The handle on the inside was very stiff to use, at least in my experience. If the handle on my front door had been such a nuisance I would have asked for it to be replaced.

Were they a similar design to the ones on mk1s? They were near impossible to use if not well maintained.