Trivia - Up and Down Lines

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Deepgreen

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Purely out of curiosity - at what point do the up and down lines swap in Thameslink's central London zone? Same question also applies to Crossrail.
 
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swt_passenger

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Easy:
Thameslink is just a few yards beyond the north end of the Farringdon platforms, IIRC there's a sign at the route boundary.

Just to add as a note that is an alteration in recent times, (and not shown in my Quail for the 'Southern'), when the Moorgate branch was still open the boundary was just south of the junction, and the up/down directions through Farringdon were the other way around.

Difficult:
No idea regarding Crossrail, never seen it mentioned anywhere yet...
 
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Railsigns

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On Crossrail, the two lines are being designated "Westbound" and "Eastbound", not "Up" and "Down", so there will be no single location where Up changes to Down.
 

swt_passenger

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On Crossrail, the two lines are being designated "Westbound" and "Eastbound", not "Up" and "Down", so there will be no single location where Up changes to Down.

Would you expect the name changes to be made at the three NR/TfL infrastructure boundaries?
 

edwin_m

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When I was working at Crossrail a few years ago I proposed that it should be between the Westbourne Park turnback sidings and Portobello Junction, as this would minimise the number of up/down transition points and trains crossing them, and also coincide with the control boundary. I don't remember if this was taken up or not.
 

Shaw S Hunter

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ISTR that for management/control purposes Crossrail was to be part of the Anglia route. If so that might have suggested a change in designation as far west as possible. The "Eastbound" and "Westbound" designations are clearly TfL-speak; it'll be interesting to see which set of wordings prevails under the pressure of everyday operations.
 

Phil.

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Well, as the header for this thread is trivia there used to be a wonderful bit of trivia concerning up and down lines at Mitcham Junction. In the days before Tramlink the direction from Wimbledon to West Croydon was up whilst the direction from London Bridge to Sutton was down.
This meant that a train going through Mitcham Junction station to-wards Croydon was going up but a following train going in the same direction through the same platform to-wards Sutton was going down. I can't off-hand think of another station/location where trains are going both up and down in the same direction on the same platform.
 

Tomnick

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Well, as the header for this thread is trivia there used to be a wonderful bit of trivia concerning up and down lines at Mitcham Junction. In the days before Tramlink the direction from Wimbledon to West Croydon was up whilst the direction from London Bridge to Sutton was down.
This meant that a train going through Mitcham Junction station to-wards Croydon was going up but a following train going in the same direction through the same platform to-wards Sutton was going down. I can't off-hand think of another station/location where trains are going both up and down in the same direction on the same platform.
There must have been a designated Up direction through the station, between the junctions either side, though. For that short distance, all trains in that direction would be described as travelling in the Up direction, even if they're broadly Down trains as far as the rest of their journey is concerned. Leicester is another example - Stansted to Birmingham trains are Down trains throughout the vast majority of their journey, but travel in the Up direction between Syston and Wigston (as well as for a short distance after leaving Stansted Airport).
 

341o2

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Well, as the header for this thread is trivia there used to be a wonderful bit of trivia concerning up and down lines at Mitcham Junction. In the days before Tramlink the direction from Wimbledon to West Croydon was up whilst the direction from London Bridge to Sutton was down.
This meant that a train going through Mitcham Junction station to-wards Croydon was going up but a following train going in the same direction through the same platform to-wards Sutton was going down. I can't off-hand think of another station/location where trains are going both up and down in the same direction on the same platform.

The nearest I can think of is Exeter St Davids to Cowley bridge junction pre 1964 where up trains to London GWR would be travelling north as would down trains SR (and vice versa)
 

30907

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The nearest I can think of is Exeter St Davids to Cowley bridge junction pre 1964 where up trains to London GWR would be travelling north as would down trains SR (and vice versa)

And Plymouth (and for a couple of years St Budeaux-Plymouth).

Still applies at St Davids, I presume, though historically SR and GW trains didn't share platforms.

Hampden Park to Eastbourne, Ramsgate to Margate, Cosham to Fareham and Dover Priory (not currently) come to mind - and that's just the Southern.
However, Tomnick's point applies there as everywhere.
 

hello

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cheltenham-standish jct you get london bound trains travelling in the down direction
 

61653 HTAFC

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The NWT Rochdale to Euston services may have been an oddity for the short time that they operated. Up from Rochdale is towards Victoria, and once on the WCML up is towards London... but depending on the route taken from Victoria (Earlestown or Denton) there'd have been at least one section where London-bound services were running Down away from Victoria.
 
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furnessvale

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The NWT Rochdale to Euston services may have been an oddity for the short time that they operated. Up from Rochdale is towards Victoria, and once on the WCML up is towards London... but depending on the route taken from Victoria (Earlestown or Denton) there'd have been at least one section where London-bound services were running Down away from Victoria.

To my knowledge, one of the most unusual up/down switchover lines was Blackburn to Preston.

When I worked there in the late 1960s up and down switched several times in the few miles between the stations because of numerous junctions, existing and removed.

For example, up and down changed sides at Cherry Tree because of the junction there, even though it had been removed.

I have no doubt it has since been rectified.
 

hello

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redhill-reading. leave redhill on the down, become the up between salfords jct and guildford, then back onto the down between guildford and reading
 

Ianno87

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Well, as the header for this thread is trivia there used to be a wonderful bit of trivia concerning up and down lines at Mitcham Junction. In the days before Tramlink the direction from Wimbledon to West Croydon was up whilst the direction from London Bridge to Sutton was down.
This meant that a train going through Mitcham Junction station to-wards Croydon was going up but a following train going in the same direction through the same platform to-wards Sutton was going down. I can't off-hand think of another station/location where trains are going both up and down in the same direction on the same platform.


Derby.

Southward departures towards Leicester/St Pancras as Up, whilst same-direction departures towards Birmingham are Down.
 

edwin_m

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To my knowledge, one of the most unusual up/down switchover lines was Blackburn to Preston.

When I worked there in the late 1960s up and down switched several times in the few miles between the stations because of numerous junctions, existing and removed.

For example, up and down changed sides at Cherry Tree because of the junction there, even though it had been removed.

I have no doubt it has since been rectified.

Going by a recent Quail map, a train leaving Preston will be Up as far as Farington Curve Junction then Down all the way to Colne or onto the Calder Valley towards Hebden Bridge. Presumably tidied up with the Preston re-signalling in the early 70s.
 

rower40

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Nexus (Tyne & Wear Metro) use "In" and "Out" rather than NR's "Up" and "Down". Trains towards Sunderland change from "In" to "Up" as they leave the Nexus-controlled area; trains towards Newcastle change from "Down" to "Out".
Is it appropriate that trains in that part of the world are "Down & Out"?
 

BestWestern

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ISTR that for management/control purposes Crossrail was to be part of the Anglia route. If so that might have suggested a change in designation as far west as possible. The "Eastbound" and "Westbound" designations are clearly TfL-speak; it'll be interesting to see which set of wordings prevails under the pressure of everyday operations.

I imagine they'll be commonly referred to (other than in safety critical communications, obviously) as the East and West...
 
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