Trolley Thoughts

[yorksrob]

Unsurprisingly I have differing views to many of you in this thread - suffice to say some of the "concerns" :roll: raised herein are bordering on the ridiculous. I can assure you we are not all anti-social aisle blockers peddling overpriced lukewarm tat and soggy sandwiches. Some of us love doing our job, getting massive job satisfaction and receive positive feedback from our passengers so it's disheartening to hear the level of hatred aimed at us by some of those on here. We may not be the most glamorous or essential of railway workers and I appreciate we may not be everyone's cup of tea (pun intended), but to read some of the "thoughts" on here you'd think we were the worst blight to hit modern rail travel since Dr Beeching's little red pen.

Are those of you anti-trolleyites seriously suggesting ripping out seating space on DMUs such as 158s or 175s in favour of a permanent buffet? Do those of you who prefer buffets find that pax meandering precariously down aisles carrying hot drinks preferable to having it prepared at your seat by someone who has had months, if not years of practice balancing on trains? I can work in a single shift up to 4 different types of DMU - would you convert all of these to include a buffet? A poster mentioned "progress" - frankly it's just a case of needs-must to be honest - persons may have a romantic image of trains with buffets and restaurants but they are not fashionable, practical or popular on certain services.

In mitigation, I am not naiive enough to think that one size fits all, and I will admit I am biased because of the position I am in, and my experience of other services is limited to a certain number of TOCs that I have travelled on (or have heard about through family.) As indeed, I expect, a number of views on here are based on limited exposure to differing types of service levels, so apologies if you feel put out by my reaction. I just felt it necessary to put across my views at this time. I would say though, to those of you who think them dangerous or a nuisance (perhaps in reactionary mode to the Swansea incident, of which I have little to no knowledge outside of what has been reported in the rags) that we are not all cowboys, and some of us know how to intelligently and safely work a train without inconvenience to pax or safety-critical crew.

Rant over!

Trolley services are extremely rare on the routes I use and many of these are over an hour in length when a cup of tea would be most welcome.

Therefore I salute you and your efforts

 

[moogal]

I must admit I rarely use trolley services or the buffet unless I've forgotten/not been able to bring a drink with me (most of the journeys I do are under 90 minutes, and I can live without eating for that long).

However, when travelling along I much prefer a trolley to having to go to the buffet, as I don't then have to leave my possessions unattended, nor take them with me and risk someone else taking my seat while I'm gone (particularly on busier services!) That's one big advantage they have.

 

[Blindtraveler]

I am one of those disabled pax that
Yorkshire Rider
feers may be under served by removal of trolleys on long distance.
Thanks for your concern, its v thoughtfull but personally speeking I avoid XC for a number of reasons, the whole entirely ludicrus idea of undertaking a journey of 4hrs plus with a regional railways style trolley with cool hot water and none too cold beer and soft drinks being one of them! Yourkshire Rider works for East Coast who thankfully still have a buffet to walk to and I do, white stick at the ready, on a regular basis. Juice out the fridge and amazing bacon tosties!
To combat the potential issue of elderly or disabled pax on long runs there are some excillent First advances out there and personally I have had multiple guards asking me if I want anything when the trolley on ECs Aberdeen runs isnt opperating.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
@Michael.Y
yours in an excillent example of a TOC where trolleys are vital and therefor well run and appreciated
services in rural areas which may well carry tourists and serve unstaffed holts are needed and appreciated.
Thankyou.

I have had a number of personal experiences which really stand out. Earier this year £1.85 for a huge coffee on TPE, Best iv ever had off a RG Trolley and in a v unlikely place given how much I hate TPE.
And its always a pleasure to use the friends of the settle and Carlisles Volunteer run service which insidentally has cold beers and softs as well as truly amazing cakes!
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
@Michael.Y
yours in an excillent example of a TOC where trolleys are vital and therefor well run and appreciated
services in rural areas which may well carry tourists and serve unstaffed holts are needed and appreciated.
Thankyou.

I have had a number of personal experiences which really stand out. Earier this year £1.85 for a huge coffee on TPE, Best iv ever had off a RG Trolley and in a v unlikely place given how much I hate TPE.
And its always a pleasure to use the friends of the settle and Carlisles Volunteer run service which insidentally has cold beers and softs as well as truly amazing cakes!

 

[Welshman]

I have nothing but praise for trolleys and those operating them, especially on ATW services from North Wales into Manchester, as there are no buffet facilities on a 175 or 158. They've even started stocking Earl Grey teabags - what could be better - gazing at the birdlife on the Wirral estuary sipping a freshly-made tea! [me - not the seagulls!].

 

[Anon Mouse]

And as a plus, the trolley lady is wearing a fetching dress and bows to the passengers when entering and exiting each coach.

.

pics?
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Self Employed was a good solution. Staff had input into the prices being charged and it was competitive. Many were earning £400-£500 a week, and the level of service to customers was simply excellent - staff were motivated to go through the train often and carefully.

As soon as the greedy train company got wind of how much money was being made, they put a stop to it. Went from £1 for a Tea/Coffee to £1.60 overnight.

Sounds very similar to when they had the Trolley (well hostess with tray) on the National Express Coaches, made many a North Shields - London overnight trip slightly bearable (and affordable snacks)
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

I have nothing but praise for trolleys and those operating them, especially on ATW services from North Wales into Manchester, as there are no buffet facilities on a 175 or 158. They've even started stocking Earl Grey teabags - what could be better - gazing at the birdlife on the Wirral estuary sipping a freshly-made tea! [me - not the seagulls!].

Can't beat a good cup of Earl Grey never seen it on a trolley before....sadly

 

[trainophile]

I must admit I rarely use trolley services or the buffet unless I've forgotten/not been able to bring a drink with me (most of the journeys I do are under 90 minutes, and I can live without eating for that long).

However, when travelling along I much prefer a trolley to having to go to the buffet, as I don't then have to leave my possessions unattended, nor take them with me and risk someone else taking my seat while I'm gone (particularly on busier services!) That's one big advantage they have.

Just ask the nearest fellow traveller to keep an eye on them for you. Most people are obliging in this regard, and you can return the favour when they want to go to the buffet or loo.

 

[90019]

I guess there are plenty here who will recall the jokes during the 70s and 80s about British Rail meat pies.

Should've replaced them with Rumbley's pies.

 

[sheff1]

Self Employed was a good solution. Staff had input into the prices being charged and it was competitive. Many were earning £400-£500 a week, and the level of service to customers was simply excellent - staff were motivated to go through the train often and carefully.

As soon as the greedy train company got wind of how much money was being made, they put a stop to it. Went from £1 for a Tea/Coffee to £1.60 overnight.

This ^^

The crowd who were based at Stockport/Manchester in the 70s/80s to work the seasonal trains were exceptional in my view (although coffee wasn't £1 a cup then!).

 

[Essexman]

Trolleys on services where there was previously no buffet (eg Heart of Wales, Cambrian Main Line) are a benefit.
Trolleys as well as a buffet (eg East Coast) are a benefit for those who find it hard or prefer not to walk to the buffet.
Trolleys on lines where there used to be a buffet offering hot food (eg Midland Main Line, Cross Country) are a backward step.

 

[Gwenllian2001]

Trolleys on services where there was previously no buffet (eg Heart of Wales, Cambrian Main Line) are a benefit.
Trolleys as well as a buffet (eg East Coast) are a benefit for those who find it hard or prefer not to walk to the buffet.
Trolleys on lines where there used to be a buffet offering hot food (eg Midland Main Line, Cross Country) are a backward step.

The Heart of Wales trolley is, as far as I'm aware, run by volunteers. The Cambrian did, of course, once have Restaurant Car facilities and, for a while, an experimental 'slot machine' Buffet Car.

 

[yorksrob]

Trolleys on services where there was previously no buffet (eg Heart of Wales, Cambrian Main Line) are a benefit.
Trolleys as well as a buffet (eg East Coast) are a benefit for those who find it hard or prefer not to walk to the buffet.
Trolleys on lines where there used to be a buffet offering hot food (eg Midland Main Line, Cross Country) are a backward step.

Nicely summed up !

 

[Michael.Y]

HoWL is, and has been for at least 2 years, an ATW trolley. Up until last year there was a full service for the 9am / 9.15am departures from SHR and SWA respectively, now it's covered south of Llanwrtyd only on both services.

 

[xfield]

Could they not just install vending machines in this day an age? Surely they wouldn't take much space, and would represent an opportunity to sell at all times on the train with out the need for a dedicated member of staff. Longer trains could could have two or three vending locations, the same as they have multiple toilets. Granted they wouldn't be able to sell booze...

 

[yorksrob]

Could they not just install vending machines in this day an age? Surely they wouldn't take much space, and would represent an opportunity to sell at all times on the train with out the need for a dedicated member of staff. Longer trains could could have two or three vending locations, the same as they have multiple toilets. Granted they wouldn't be able to sell booze...

I believe BR experimented with something called a micro-buffet which was basically a compartment with all the seating stripped out and replaced with vending machines.

Unfortunately you're left with neither the range of food available from a traditional buffet nor the at seat service of a trolley.

And there's the not being able to sell booze !

 

[Michael.Y]

Could they not just install vending machines in this day an age? Surely they wouldn't take much space, and would represent an opportunity to sell at all times on the train with out the need for a dedicated member of staff. Longer trains could could have two or three vending locations, the same as they have multiple toilets. Granted they wouldn't be able to sell booze...

Sigh. ad: This is a valid idea, but fails on so many levels.

Firstly, they are heavy and unwieldy, and would add a potentially unbalanced weight to one side of the train. They would have to be securely bolted to the train infrastructure and if anything happened and they became dislodged then the outcome could be hideous. Also they would have to draw power from the train's batteries.

Secondly, they are vulnerable to theft and vandalism. I wouldn't want to be on a 5-hour DMU journey with a malfunctioning vending machine as my only source of sustenance.

Thirdly, you would have to have multiple machines for hot drinks, bottles and chocolate/crisps etc. AFAIK there is no model out there that performs all these tasks. Plus I doubt there is one that is refrigerated to keep sandwiches temp-safe.

Fourthly, what would happen if your crisps got stuck on those annoying spinning things? Do you bother the guard who is busy down the other end of the train dealing with safety critical work to sort it out?

Fifthly - and this is the most important - a vending machine can't smile at you, wish you a good morning, offer you information and advice, take special requirement requests for later in the journey like sandwiches or alcohol, help you with your luggage, get a ramp out for a wheelchair or relay messages to the guard if need be.

 

[pjnathanail]

I believe BR experimented with something called a micro-buffet which was basically a compartment with all the seating stripped out and replaced with vending machines.

Somewhat euphemistically, many stations with the red Selecta vending machines have signs above them referring to them as buffets.

 

[district]

http://railnetchannel.tv/avc-view.aspx?videoid=41&categoryid=
From 0:54 seconds onwards!

 

[Chris M]

Plus I doubt there is one that is refrigerated to keep sandwiches temp-safe.

While I completely agree with the rest of your post, there do exist sandwich vending machines - there is one at the University of East London for example. They have a low capacity and are inefficient users of space though, so wouldn't really be suitable for use on a train, even discounting the other factors you mention.

 

[yorksrob]

http://railnetchannel.tv/avc-view.aspx?videoid=41&categoryid=
From 0:54 seconds onwards!

Some nice views of the singled Hastings line tunnels and even a CIG

 

[sheff1]

Sigh. ad: This is a valid idea, but fails on so many levels.

Firstly, they are heavy and unwieldy, and would add a potentially unbalanced weight to one side of the train. They would have to be securely bolted to the train infrastructure and if anything happened and they became dislodged then the outcome could be hideous. Also they would have to draw power from the train's batteries.

If these things are so dangerous, strange that they are in everyday operation on numerous non-UK railways.

 

[Michael.Y]

If these things are so dangerous, strange that they are in everyday operation on numerous non-UK railways.

These non-UK railways don't have 30-year-old rolling stock with wooden floors!

 

[bronzeonion]

Don't understand why people are hell bent on putting people out of work!

 

[mirodo]

I think they're a good idea as it allows passengers to buy drinks and snacks at their seat without having to walk down the train (six coaches in some cases) to get to the buffet counter. However, they should certainly move the trolley to allow people to get on and off the train if they have to.

What I don't agree with, however, is when buffet cars are replaced with trolleys. In my opinion, a trolly service should supplement a buffet counter. After all, you can't buy a bacon sandwich from a trolley! East Coast do this right, as i believe they aim to have a buffet and a trolley service on every train (unless this has changed since i read it on a timetable). It's just a shame they got rid of the restaurant.

Au contraire!

I travelled on EMT from London to Sheffield on Saturday morning a few weeks ago. The trolley came round, followed by a lady with a tray of sausage and bacon sandwiches. The take-up was very impressive - they ran out, so took orders from pax and went back to the kitchen and prepared more. I thought it was an excellent idea - I wonder how many people would have made the trip to the buffet to buy a sandwich had there not been an at seat service.

 

[Be3G]

Hah, sounds like EMT have cottoned on to the age-old fact that hardly anyone can resist the smell of freshly fried bacon in the morning. A good idea I do agree.

a vending machine can't […] take special requirement requests for later in the journey like sandwiches or alcohol

Is this something trolleys (well, trolley staff) can genuinely do? I concede I don't often travel on trains with trolleys as I live in London where the only food available on trains is a discarded takeaway on the floor. If on a long journey it's actually possible to ask the operator to order something on especially for you when it's restocked, then that's rather handy!

 

[PHILIPE]

What annoys me is that FGW provide a trolley on the Cardiff to Portsmouth run throughoout the day Monday to Friday (except first and last thing) but shut up shop at lunchtime on a Saturday and nothing on a Sunday. The passengers are still travelling with many on a lengthy journey. No doubt money before service.

 

[dk1]

What annoys me is that FGW provide a trolley on the Cardiff to Portsmouth run throughoout the day Monday to Friday (except first and last thing) but shut up shop at lunchtime on a Saturday and nothing on a Sunday. The passengers are still travelling with many on a lengthy journey. No doubt money before service.

I never understand. Sunday afternoon is now one of the heaviest long distance travel peaks of the week.

 

[AlexS]

Hah, sounds like EMT have cottoned on to the age-old fact that hardly anyone can resist the smell of freshly fried bacon in the morning. A good idea I do agree.



Is this something trolleys (well, trolley staff) can genuinely do? I concede I don't often travel on trains with trolleys as I live in London where the only food available on trains is a discarded takeaway on the floor. If on a long journey it's actually possible to ask the operator to order something on especially for you when it's restocked, then that's rather handy!

EMT always have done - it isn't advertised anywhere, as far as I know, but if you board a train advertised as a first class breakfast service, provided First isn't already full using up all the stock then one of the staff will come through the train taking orders for cooked breakfasts - you can have anything from a bacon or sausage roll to a full english breakfast with toast on the side and everything, delivered to your seat (in a large paper takeaway tray admittedly, rather than a china plate and cutlery, but it's still excellent). The full english is particularly reasonable at £5.95 for standard class passengers containing eggs, sausage, bacon, black pudding, muffin, hash brown, tomato, beans (I think!), mushrooms and toast. I was extremely pleasantly surprised the first time I stumbled across it by chance.

 

[heart-of-wessex]

Don't understand why people are hell bent on putting people out of work!

+1

I use the trolley sometimes on the 159 if going to/from Waterloo, using Starbucks coffee (I assume, they use starbucks cups) whilst it's not cheap I don't mind using the trolley nor do I mind trolleys at all, I can imagine it's not an easy task (apparently going through First Class can be a pain with those manual, tight push doors) but it does provide jobs. I'd never wish for vending machines to replace them either, and since the incident at Chesterfield where I bought something from the machine and it got stuck, I never used one at a station since.

 

[Anon Mouse]

I love the vending machine at Chesterfield, its buy one get one free haha

 

[Clip]

They seemed to have survived in the south east for many years with nothing more serious then maybe a squashed toe or a hot water burn so I'm unsure why people think they 'could' be dangerous.

The RAMS will have all this covered and even what to do in times of emergency.