Tube Strikes: 3rd-6th August (Now 24th to 27th August)

Horizon22

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Not noticed a thread here yet but had an email and seen it reported that there will be a four day tube strike between 3rd - 6th August.


A four day Tube strike will go ahead next month amid a row over plans to abolish separate pay grades for drivers who work nights, the RMT. The union said there had been “a solid vote for action from its members and subsequent talks “failed to resolve” the issue.

It said it had told London Underground staff not to report for work from 12 midday on August 3 until 11.59am the following day and on three other days in the same month.

The union said the plan was “a cash led move” that would “destroy the work life balance of 3,000 Tube drivers”.

Is this at all related to Night Tube drivers that are transitioning or a separate matter? Any idea if certain routes will be affected more than others? Not shaping up to be a great Summer for TfL.
 
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Hold fire. There’s additional talks tomorrow and the tone is a little more conciliatory than late so we’ll see…
 

davews

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Yes, we all seem to have just got that TFL email.... first I had heard of the strike. Hopefully the talks will find a solution.
 

Horizon22

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Hold fire. There’s additional talks tomorrow and the tone is a little more conciliatory than late so we’ll see…

Yeah I did see this in a later ES standard article here but nothing was confirmed.
Yes, we all seem to have just got that TFL email.... first I had heard of the strike. Hopefully the talks will find a solution.

TfL's comms definitely seem to have taken a hit these past few months - not sure if its been Covid related or not. They used to be excellent but the standard has dropped a little of late.
 

oz220

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Not noticed a thread here yet but had an email and seen it reported that there will be a four day tube strike between 3rd - 6th August.




Is this at all related to Night Tube drivers that are transitioning or a separate matter? Any idea if certain routes will be affected more than others? Not shaping up to be a great Summer for TfL.
Yes, it’s relating to the end of the night tube grade and incorporation of night duties into full time rota.

as stated, more talks planned for tomorrow.
 

Meerkat

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I’m not exactly pro-Union and industrial action but if they are making ‘day‘ tube drivers do night shifts that isn’t really on.
 

Mawkie

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ASLEF agreed to the changes to the Framework Agreement, and RMT didn't.

There is a YouTube video (with RMT Regional Organiser John Leach) that outlines the issues from the RMT point of view.

I can't speak to the ASLEF pov as it seems contrary to that which they went on strike for in 2016 - I'm not sure what's changed since then - the principles of work/life balance are more important now surely.
 

Lewlew

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I’m not exactly pro-Union and industrial action but if they are making ‘day‘ tube drivers do night shifts that isn’t really on.
They already do night shifts on all lines, even before Night Tube
 

Mojo

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They already do night shifts on all lines, even before Night Tube
Exactly, and most of the drivers that do regular nights weren’t particularly happy because they got booted off nights on Fridays and Saturdays.

I do find the notion of the RMT calling this strike a bit amusing, because one of the big losers from the introduction of the night tube T/Op grade has been full time station staff who were seeking a transfer to become a driver.
 

Meerkat

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So LUL are trying to force through contract changes?
I don’t agree with that though happy for new starters to be given a different contract and current drivers to be given the choice.
 

Mojo

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So LUL are trying to force through contract changes?
I don’t agree with that though happy for new starters to be given a different contract and current drivers to be given the choice.
It’s not a contract change. Staff are always expected to work any shift across the roster; it is the roster that has been changed. Shifts still cannot commence before 04.37 (04.45 at most locations) or finish after 01.30, hence the primary reason for night shifts being part of the roster at many depots already.
 

hozza94

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So they went on strike in 2016 before for the new grade being created for Night Tube and more strike now for abolishing the same roles... :s
 

oz220

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So what is the dispute about?
So they went on strike in 2016 before for the new grade being created for Night Tube and more strike now for abolishing the same roles... :s

as far as I’m aware they went on strike before because they didn’t want to do night tube. And the strike action achieved this as a new role was brought in instead (PT night tube drivers).

now they are striking again for the same reason. Cos they still don’t want to do the night tube duties.

although ASLEF have agreed to it this time around but we’re opposed last time.
 

bramling

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It’s not a contract change. Staff are always expected to work any shift across the roster; it is the roster that has been changed. Shifts still cannot commence before 04.37 (04.45 at most locations) or finish after 01.30, hence the primary reason for night shifts being part of the roster at many depots already.

To be fair, the change to the roster is quite a significant one. For any train operator who took on the role pre-2016 nights would have been an occasional feature, which all of a sudden would be something cropping up a lot more often. In all honesty I’d have been peeved about that, so I can understand what the fuss has been about.

Now the solution is essentially that people can swap shifts if they desire, which to my mind is a bit of a fudge, albeit one which does work - but only because LU is now prepared to dangle money at people (which they weren’t prepared to do back in 2016).

Given the parlous financial situation, we have to wonder whether it is a judicious use of taxpayer and fare payer money to be throwing money at Night Tube in this way. I’d argue that it isn’t.

To be honest I’m surprised they’re thinking of bringing the damn thing back. We managed without it for 150+ years, no one seems to have missed it much since it was suspended, and it’s caused nothing but trouble since the idea was first floated. It’s no surprise that the idea came from none other than Boris Johnson, the prime minister who has presided over 130,000 deaths.
 

oz220

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To be fair, the change to the roster is quite a significant one. For any train operator who took on the role pre-2016 nights would have been an occasional feature, which all of a sudden would be something cropping up a lot more often. In all honesty I’d have been peeved about that, so I can understand what the fuss has been about.

Now the solution is essentially that people can swap shifts if they desire, which to my mind is a bit of a fudge, albeit one which does work - but only because LU is now prepared to dangle money at people (which they weren’t prepared to do back in 2016).

Given the parlous financial situation, we have to wonder whether it is a judicious use of taxpayer and fare payer money to be throwing money at Night Tube in this way. I’d argue that it isn’t.

To be honest I’m surprised they’re thinking of bringing the damn thing back. We managed without it for 150+ years, no one seems to have missed it much since it was suspended, and it’s caused nothing but trouble since the idea was first floated. It’s no surprise that the idea came from none other than Boris Johnson, the prime minister who has presided over 130,000 deaths.

I agree, only thing I’d correct is LU actually offered more money for doing the duties back in 2016 than what has been tabled now.
 

hozza94

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Given the parlous financial situation, we have to wonder whether it is a judicious use of taxpayer and fare payer money to be throwing money at Night Tube in this way. I’d argue that it isn’t.

I would say the restoration of the previous night bus frequency would be a much cheaper alternative, given a whole host of routes that ran parallel had a reduction..

now they are striking again for the same reason. Cos they still don’t want to do the night tube duties.

I wonder whether the drivers (not the unions!) actually want to do it or not, or is it purely a financial reason? Is it possible to make it a semi-voluntary approach where some drivers could opt-in/out as desired?
 

oz220

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I would say the restoration of the previous night bus frequency would be a much cheaper alternative, given a whole host of routes that ran parallel had a reduction..



I wonder whether the drivers (not the unions!) actually want to do it or not, or is it purely a financial reason? Is it possible to make it a semi-voluntary approach where some drivers could opt-in/out as desired?

well, the word on the street is that night tube was never financially profitable so it does beg the question why bring it back when you’re looking to save money.…. my opinion is that if the government push for its return then they should subsidies it but instead they want the workers to pay for it.

ASLEF have agreed to the changes, it was balloted by the RMT and strike action was vote for by the members (im sure the numbers are out there somewhere). I would like to think some type of voluntary approach could be a sensible outcome to resolve this.
 

Mawkie

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It’s not a contract change. Staff are always expected to work any shift across the roster; it is the roster that has been changed. Shifts still cannot commence before 04.37 (04.45 at most locations) or finish after 01.30, hence the primary reason for night shifts being part of the roster at many depots already.
But there is a fundamental change to the Framework Agreement, right? Even where there are Sun-Thurs night turns, that work was never in passenger service between the hours you quoted.

RMT and ASLEF went on strike in 2016 for the night tube to be set up completely from new drivers - thereby giving station staff another avenue for progression - and now ASLEF and LUL have reneged on the deal.
 

bramling

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well, the word on the street is that night tube was never financially profitable so it does beg the question why bring it back when you’re looking to save money.…. my opinion is that if the government push for its return then they should subsidies it but instead they want the workers to pay for it.

ASLEF have agreed to the changes, it was balloted by the RMT and strike action was vote for by the members (im sure the numbers are out there somewhere). I would like to think some type of voluntary approach could be a sensible outcome to resolve this.

The trouble is the whole situation with TFL now is entirely political, they are caught in the middle of a score-settling game of politics between the Mayor and Boris, and also between (Labour voting) London and the Conservative party.

This is what maddens me with Boris. Whilst I despise Khan, as a non-Londoner with a stake in London as our capital city, I am disgusted at being caught in the crossfire of all this, and I can’t find words to adequately express how angry it makes me that Boris is prepared to put petty politics like this ahead of competently and professionally running the country.

This is one of a number of reasons why I find it impossible to vote for any of the political parties at the moment - none of them seem particularly serious.

i think it was around £200 before tax per duty. This time it’s around £115 as far as I’m aware.

Was there a sting in the tail at the time? I seem to remember something, was the £200 offer time bound or something like that?
 

duncanp

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Just to clarify, the strike is not actually a four day strike from 3rd - 6th August.

It is four 24 hour strikes starting at-
  • 12 noon on Tuesday 3rd August until 11:59am on Wednesday 4th August
  • 12 noon on Thursday 5th August until 11:59am on Friday 6th August
  • 12 noon on Tuedsay 24th August until 11:59am on Wednesday 25th August
  • 12 noon on Thursday 26th August until 11:59am on Friday 27th August

But that would require The Standard to check its facts before writing a misleading headline, and we can't have that, can we?

I will be in London when the third and fourth strikes are on, but have already worked out my alternative routes for what I want to do.

Years of living in London taught me how to cope with tube strikes, and not let them affect your life too much.
 

Mojo

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But there is a fundamental change to the Framework Agreement, right?
Contrary to popular belief, it was never in the train operator agreements about limitation on number of night shifts in passenger service - that was in the service control agreements.
RMT and ASLEF went on strike in 2016 for the night tube to be set up completely from new drivers - thereby giving station staff another avenue for progression - and now ASLEF and LUL have reneged on the deal.
As said above, it actually put station staff at a disadvantage, as the number of permanent transfers was reduced significantly, with most station staff having to take a pay cut to do weekends before being allowed to go full time.

Now the solution is essentially that people can swap shifts if they desire, which to my mind is a bit of a fudge, albeit one which does work - but only because LU is now prepared to dangle money at people (which they weren’t prepared to do back in 2016).
One of the proposals that was rejected did actually have a flat premium for any night shift worked.
 

Meerkat

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well, the word on the street is that night tube was never financially profitable so it does beg the question why bring it back when you’re looking to save money
I got the impression night tube was more about helping the night time economy bring in money rather than to make a profit itself??
 

Tube driver

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The trouble is the whole situation with TFL now is entirely political, they are caught in the middle of a score-settling game of politics between the Mayor and Boris, and also between (Labour voting) London and the Conservative party.

This is what maddens me with Boris. Whilst I despise Khan, as a non-Londoner with a stake in London as our capital city, I am disgusted at being caught in the crossfire of all this, and I can’t find words to adequately express how angry it makes me that Boris is prepared to put petty politics like this ahead of competently and professionally running the country.

This is one of a number of reasons why I find it impossible to vote for any of the political parties at the moment - none of them seem particularly serious.



Was there a sting in the tail at the time? I seem to remember something, was the £200 offer time bound or something like that?
The extra dosh was only available for a year and then we’d all be doing night tube for flat rate. There was a ‘signing it off’ bonus dangled to try and get it over the line but once the draft rosters were realeased it quickly became apparent that it would be a non-starter (they were absolutely hellish).

However, this day was always coming. Night Tube staffing was a fudge from beginning to end and the fact we have ‘oil and water’ t/ops is faintly ridiculous from a business point of view and whilst I have some reservations with this deal at least it puts everyone on a level playing field.

We’ve been promised (ha!) that those that don’t want to do the shifts won’t have to but I think it will quickly end up that if you can’t get rid then you have to do them and a lot of the responsibility is being put onto the mafias shoulders who weren’t consulted or involved in any of this and have raised numerous issues already.
 

bramling

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I got the impression night tube was more about helping the night time economy bring in money rather than to make a profit itself??

Well, when they were trying to extol the wonders of it, I seem to remember it was for shift workers! Of course no one really ever believed that.
 

oz220

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I got the impression night tube was more about helping the night time economy bring in money rather than to make a profit itself??

unfortunately the financial situation has changed since then. also, back then the government had a funding agreement with TFL that has since stopped.
 

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