Tube train lighting irritating my eyes

[Meerkat]

I was on the Tube yesterday for the first time in a while so had forgotten how irritating the internal train lights are for me, particularly the Jubilee line.
Is it rare that the fluorescent tubes make my eyes itch and go red or do others suffer from this? I have to stare at the floor or shut my eyes if going for more than a couple of stops.
When I was a kid it used to happen in shops with unshielded fluorescent tubes, but even before the move to LEDs it hasn't affected me in buildings for decades, so its odd that tube lights are so bad.
Don't suppose there are any plans to replace them with LEDs anytime soon?

 

[TRAX]

I would think the problem is your eyes rather than the bulbs…

 

[bramling]

I was on the Tube yesterday for the first time in a while so had forgotten how irritating the internal train lights are for me, particularly the Jubilee line.
Is it rare that the fluorescent tubes make my eyes itch and go red or do others suffer from this? I have to stare at the floor or shut my eyes if going for more than a couple of stops.
When I was a kid it used to happen in shops with unshielded fluorescent tubes, but even before the move to LEDs it hasn't affected me in buildings for decades, so its odd that tube lights are so bad.
Don't suppose there are any plans to replace them with LEDs anytime soon?

Can’t say it’s a massive issue for me, however like most trains Underground lighting has tended to get brighter over recent years which personally I’m not a great fan of, especially the tendency to use daylight tones which I’ve never found works very well, and indeed at night is pretty horrible, though there seems to have been a move away from this fad, think it’s only the Central Line with them now (and it’s interesting that the Central Line trains are consistently scored worst by passenger surveys on ambience AIUI, so wonder if there’s a connection there).

I do wonder if low quality lamps are being used, as there’s no reason for much of this.

 

[Meerkat]

I would think the problem is your eyes rather than the bulbs…

Well obviously, but these days the only place it happens is on tube trains, which is a little odd (though they are much nearer than in a shop - if standing in a Jubilee train they then are pretty much right in my face)

I guess a shop/office generally doesn't have the dust etc that is in the tube atmosphere.

 

[hexagon789]

I was on the Tube yesterday for the first time in a while so had forgotten how irritating the internal train lights are for me, particularly the Jubilee line.
Is it rare that the fluorescent tubes make my eyes itch and go red or do others suffer from this? I have to stare at the floor or shut my eyes if going for more than a couple of stops.
When I was a kid it used to happen in shops with unshielded fluorescent tubes, but even before the move to LEDs it hasn't affected me in buildings for decades, so its odd that tube lights are so bad.
Don't suppose there are any plans to replace them with LEDs anytime soon?

Sensitivity to fluorescent light is absolutely a thing, usually that sensitivity also features with sunlight, light/glare from computer/TV screens and other bright light sources.

Often accompanied by dry/itchy eyes, headaches, migraines and inability to concentrate.

If you do suffer from those symptoms as well, might be worth wearing tinted glasses in bright environments and seeing someone about a potential medical condition.

Hyper photo-sensitivity can be caused by other underlying conditions.

A colleague and friend at work (only a couple years older than I) wears medically prescribed tinted glasses because of light sensitivity.

 

[Meerkat]

Sensitivity to fluorescent light is absolutely a thing, usually that sensitivity also features with sunlight, light/glare from computer/TV screens and other bright light sources.

Often accompanied by dry/itchy eyes, headaches, migraines and inability to concentrate.

If you do suffer from those symptoms as well, might be worth wearing tinted glasses in bright environments and seeing someone about a potential medical condition.

Hyper photo-sensitivity can be caused by other underlying conditions.

A colleague and friend at work (only a couple years older than I) wears medically prescribed tinted glasses because of light sensitivity.

It is literally only an issue on the Tube, that's why I was curious if others found this and whether anyone had any idea what is so different about the Tube lighting, the Jubilee in particular. I had had no issues for years (rarely going on the Tube) and then a couple of long Tube journeys were really uncomfortable.
I can control it by just staring at my feet or shutting my eyes, (and avoiding taking the Jubilee all the way out to West Ham/Stratford!) so its no drama, just annoying and odd.

 

[TRAX]

Well obviously, but these days the only place it happens is on tube trains, which is a little odd (though they are much nearer than in a shop - if standing in a Jubilee train they then are pretty much right in my face)

I guess a shop/office generally doesn't have the dust etc that is in the tube atmosphere.

Are you noticing this mostly on the Jubilee Line ?

 

[Mcr Warrior]

Are specialist (non-prescription) tinted glasses generally available which would partly filter out certain wavelengths emanating from fluorescent lights and so help alleviate against the symptoms reported by the OP?

 

[Dstock7080]

Don't suppose there are any plans to replace them with LEDs anytime soon?

Bakerloo 1972 Stock are slowly moving to LED interior lights.
Refurbished Central 1992 Stock will also have them, along with the new Piccadilly 2024 Stock.

 

[Meerkat]

Are you noticing this mostly on the Jubilee Line ?

Yep, but that is the line I am most likely to go any distance on. I vaguely remember it being uncomfortable on the long drag back down the Northern line from Colindale.

 

[theking]

Thought they got changed to led when they had their internal refurbishment.

They're definitely more whiter than the previous units.

 

[TRAX]

Yep, but that is the line I am most likely to go any distance on. I vaguely remember it being uncomfortable on the long drag back down the Northern line from Colindale.

Yeah the Northern line stock is basically the same as the Jubilee stock interior-wise…
It’s weird that it appears on these specific trains though

 

[Mojo]

Is it just on Tube trains or do you have the problem on the sub-surface fleet also?

 

[Meerkat]

Is it just on Tube trains or do you have the problem on the sub-surface fleet also?

Haven’t been on those underground/at night for sometime but don’t remember them ever doing so.

 

[John Webb]

Is it possibly anything to do with the frequency which the lights are operated at? I don't know what frequency they use on the Tube for fluorescent fittings. Obviously they are running them from a DC/AC converter; perhaps there are subtle changes in frequency which affect some people as the train changes speed? (Compared to the steady mains frequency on which such fittings work at home.)

 

[yorksrob]

I sympathise with the OP.

The light bulbs on some of the old mk 1's gave a much more pleasant, warm and relaxing atmosphere than florescent tubes.

 

[Ediswan]

Is it possibly anything to do with the frequency which the lights are operated at? I don't know what frequency they use on the Tube for fluorescent fittings. Obviously they are running them from a DC/AC converter; perhaps there are subtle changes in frequency which affect some people as the train changes speed? (Compared to the steady mains frequency on which such fittings work at home.)

Fittings from late 1990s onwards may well have an electronic ballast, which supply the lamp at 20kHz or higher.

 

[bramling]

I sympathise with the OP.

The light bulbs on some of the old mk 1's gave a much more pleasant, warm and relaxing atmosphere than florescent tubes.

It’s interesting even the contrast between todays fluorescent or LED lamps and those from the 1990s.

I was fortunate enough to have a few trips on 205032 when it was running on the then Dartmoor Railway back in 2014. This was essentially like stepping back a decade or more - as well as stuff like SouthCentral route maps inside, the fluorescent tubes had a noticeably more pink tone, which was surprisingly restful. Certainly took me back to the 1990s and riding up and down the Uckfield line on virtually empty units during dull winter days.

 

[Roast Veg]

The latest refurbishment of the Northern class 150s have involved the addition of lighting that is a very real risk for those who are photosensitive.

 

[Mcr Warrior]

Are specialist (non-prescription) tinted glasses generally available which would partly filter out certain wavelengths emanating from fluorescent lights and so help alleviate against the symptoms reported by the OP?

Anything in this as a possible "solution" for the OP?

 

[Ken H]

Bulbs have a colour temperature. The really bright ones have more light at the blue end of the spectrum. Blue light tends to wake us up, which is why using devices with an LED screen last thing at night is to be avoided.Tungsten bulbs (remember them?) Had more red.
As some have alluded to above, frequency is also an issue. We are subjected to a 50Hz flickering light all day.
Lots online about this...

 

[Big Jumby 74]

Sensitivity to fluorescent light is absolutely a thing, usually that sensitivity also features with sunlight, light/glare from computer/TV screens and other bright light sources.

Often accompanied by dry/itchy eyes, headaches, migraines and inability to concentrate.

If you do suffer from those symptoms as well, might be worth wearing tinted glasses in bright environments and seeing someone about a potential medical condition.

Hyper photo-sensitivity can be caused by other underlying conditions.

A colleague and friend at work (only a couple years older than I) wears medically prescribed tinted glasses because of light sensitivity.

Totally agree. Being of a certain (older) age, like many others of a similar age, eye issues tend to become more noticeable. I went through a period recently when supermarkets, or shopping in them, became a bit of a mare. The lighting combined with the multitude of different colours (of product packaging) on the shelves caused all sorts of problems, including the occasional bout of dizziness. Took to wearing a peaked cap (dark glasses should also help) to block out the lighting from above, which seemed to work. But on the occasions when I did experience problems, as soon as I was back outside in natural daylight, any symptoms just vanished.
For anyone worried I would make a point of seeing an optician, and have regular (annual) check ups, just to be on the safe side.

We are subjected to a 50Hz flickering light all day

I think this is a part of the problem. These tubes all 'flicker' but normally this isn't noticeable to the naked eye (except when they are defective), but I am certain the brain must pick up on this, hence the associated eye problems that some people have.

 

[Ediswan]

I think this is a part of the problem. These tubes all 'flicker' but normally this isn't noticeable to the naked eye (except when they are defective), but I am certain the brain must pick up on this, hence the associated eye problems that some people have.

Modern LED and fluorescent lights run at 20-40 kHz. Are there any credible studies which show the brain is sensitive to these modulation frequencies ?

In principle, LED would be worse as the modulation level is 100%. Fluoresent is close to 0%, the phosphor persistence is too high.

(Artificial vs daylight is a whole different topic.)