Tyne and Wear Metro

[ModernRailways]

I hate the announcement, but I listened to it, and so did everyone else. Their aim is to get the point across, and I must say I think it is. Same with the doors closing one, she sounds so annoying, but people listen to it and comment about it. In which case they are doing what they should be.

This topic went off-topic a while ago. :P This is more of a thread about anything Tyne and Wear Metro, than just about the refurbs? Maybe a Mod could rename it the 'Tyne and Wear Metro MEGATHREAD!' or something like that?

CoachAlex, apparently has a few driver friends and friends who work in the depot who give him this information. How much they're just having him on, or he's just making it up is unknown though!

 

[142094]

But shouldn't that still be able to return to the depot under it's own power?

Easy answer is that it depends. Something like a door tones fault, the train can go straight to the depot. With other things, it is more complicated.

Are there any stats anywhere that show refurbished vs unrefurbished failures? Is there something about the refurbishment that is making the trains more susceptible to failures.

From what I can tell there is very little difference between the two, apart from issues that come up in the first few weeks of a refurbished set out and running.

The fact 21/24 experienced another failure at Jesmond a day later is quite concerning as it shows that metrocars are being used when they aren't really fit for service.

A set will never be sent out if it has a major fault. Everything that comes back at night has to undergo a duty check, which is a sort of mini exam. I'm sure this is a legal requirement and part of the rule book (on a similar note, when a driver picks up a train from the depot or a stabling point, they also have to do a duty check as well). This happens across the industry.

B end leading should have no effect on reliability, all this means is that a set has been uncoupled for whatever reason and a spare car replaces that one, but is the wrong way around. If possible a driver on a spare turn will be used to turn the car, going via South Gosforth and back to the depot, but this isn't always possible.

Part of the problem is that on the Facebook group, the updates invariably state that there are delays due to a failed train. In the vast majority of cases the train can continue back to the depot without any problems, but the general public equate a failure to a train being stuck at a station and the breakdown team going out. The train itself runs fine, but for safety reasons it cannot run in passenger service.
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Going off-topic here, but does anyone know if Coachalex claims to have a source for the false information he keeps posting? If not then I really don't understand why he feels the need to keep making stuff up and spreading false rumours.

Normally comes from a mystery person X who somehow works at the depot, control and Nexus HQ all at the same time. I'm quite sure that there are very few drivers who talk to him, and anyone who works at the depot knows 4013 hasn't been undergoing a 'test' refurbishment.
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More problems today due to overhead wires getting tangled in the pan near Gateshead Stadium.

 

[Paul_10]

More problems today due to overhead wires getting tangled in the pan near Gateshead Stadium.

Looking at the regional news outlets, it seems that the OHL got bought down as soon as it went into the tunnel heading towards Gateshead and as a woman describes it as a "big flash" and the lights going out and the train soon stopped which would make sence in this incident really, must of been pretty scary for passengers on board I'm sure.

I looked on Look North and they filmed two blue metrocars with their pantographs down and from what I remember, the only 2 two blue units that are paired together are 4035/47 so I suspect it may of been these two units involved.

Apparently there was a few similar(?) problems from Hebburn to South Shields which caused the service to be suspended there for a short while at least but I'm not sure what exactly has happened there, anyone got any more info?

Replacement buses were in operation but as people(and metro) reported in a fairly limited manner although this appeared to of increased at peak times. Was at Heworth for around half an hour watching all the chaos and replacement buses were operated by Arriva, Go North East, A Line and Kingsley's. Good too see independent operators operating the Metro Replacement service again when there is an unplanned disruption like this, since DBTW took over, there has been a real reluctance for whatever reason to use independent operators to cover the Metro Replacement service when there are unplanned disruptions which obviously leads to overcrowded normal buses which of course is totally unfair on bus passengers and drivers alike.

Unfortunately though, yet another incident during this month, the passenger charter could be interesting viewing for July!

 

[ModernRailways]

Those problems today were hell. Took me an hour and a half to get from Newcastle to Jarrow. No extra peak services on buses. The 27 was full from Newcastle, only two people could get on. In my view the replacement bus should have been Gateshead to Heworth with the 27 being the bus to/from Newcastle.

A lot of people at Newcastle who just wanted to go to Heworth or Gateshead were trying to get on every bus that arrived. There were three 58s (all artics) and they were all pretty much empty. Metro asking GNE if people could use tickets on there too would have been a huge help as they have a ridiculous capacity compared to the buses on the 27 which were the Citaros or the old 27s (the 88/5 use them now).

I've noticed on the Facebook page mind there is one person who is constantly telling people to email Passenger Focus, what I don't think she has realised is the fact you must make the complaint to Nexus first then for it to be followed up by Passenger Focus if you don't feel you got a good enough response.

Today, there was a lot of tutting when Metro announcements were played, but that was it. I wonder just how much of the Facebook crowd have actually been affected or whether they're just moaning again. They always seem to be the same people too whether it be night or day they complain about delays. How on Earth they travel around so much is odd to me, they always seem to be using the system.

The amount of refunds/compensation Metro will be giving out will be huge! Speaking of which, can Gold Card users get compensation?

One final thing, does anyone know if Hew will ever be back or is he on holiday away from all this chaos? I wish they would do Manager sessions more often at big places instead of just Four Lane Ends or stations up that way all the time. Central, Monument or Haymarket would be the best places, especially if they can put it in a certain area where it won't block the hoards of people who couldn't care.

/Rant over.

 

[Paul_10]

One final thing, does anyone know if Hew will ever be back or is he on holiday away from all this chaos? I wish they would do Manager sessions more often at big places instead of just Four Lane Ends or stations up that way all the time. Central, Monument or Haymarket would be the best places, especially if they can put it in a certain area where it won't block the hoards of people who couldn't care.

/Rant over.

Hew was at Heworth this evening speaking to Tyne Tees about these problems, I'm sure I saw him before hand whilst I was at Heworth but it may of been an alook alike!

 

[transmanche]

Those problems today were hell. Took me an hour and a half to get from Newcastle to Jarrow. No extra peak services on buses. The 27 was full from Newcastle, only two people could get on. In my view the replacement bus should have been Gateshead to Heworth with the 27 being the bus to/from Newcastle.

It surprised me that there was no mention of using Northern between Newcastle Central and Heworth, which would have been more convenient than the bus for many passengers. Being how there is inter-availability of tickets anyway, it wouldn't need any 'special arrangements'. Plus, when they realised that the problem would persist until the end of service, they could have tried to see if Northern were able to run any extras during the evening peak and later into the evening. (OK they might not have any units or drivers spare, but it may have been possible to call some drivers in on overtime.)

My real bugbear (and it also happens during planned engineering work) is that the platform indicators still show 'South Shields' and 'South Hylton', even though all the trains are terminating at Monument. I was at Regent Centre this evening and there were some confused people who weren't sure if the line had re-opened or not, as the PIS said the next train was for 'South Hylton'.

 

[ModernRailways]

It surprised me that there was no mention of using Northern between Newcastle Central and Heworth, which would have been more convenient than the bus for many passengers. Being how there is inter-availability of tickets anyway, it wouldn't need any 'special arrangements'. Plus, when they realised that the problem would persist until the end of service, they could have tried to see if Northern were able to run any extras during the evening peak and later into the evening. (OK they might not have any units or drivers spare, but it may have been possible to call some drivers in on overtime.)

My real bugbear (and it also happens during planned engineering work) is that the platform indicators still show 'South Shields' and 'South Hylton', even though all the trains are terminating at Monument. I was at Regent Centre this evening and there were some confused people who weren't sure if the line had re-opened or not, as the PIS said the next train was for 'South Hylton'.

I mentioned the trains on the Facebook page, Metro never seem to be keen on advertising it. My big problem is Northern seemed to place 156s on the services normally operated by 142s. At Heworth people could have got the train instead of waiting the 45 minutes till the next South Hylton train! Nexus/Metro always fail in advertising that this service actually exists and people can use it. Northern may not have been able to run extra services, but I'm sure they may have been able to double up some units to 4 car trains with the rear two cars splitting at Sunderland and going back to Newcastle.

The PIS was going of what trains were saying. I went into Monument and the train said South Shields, I asked a Police Officer if the line was open and he said 'No, this train is going to The Coast. Why do you ask?' I told him it said South Shields on both the boards and on the front of the train and he laughed and said 'Well, this is Metro. What do you expect'. He then directed me to the replacement bus!


As for Hew, I never saw him at around 5:30pm. Was he hiding from the public and only came out to give a quick a interview? Wouldn't surprise me with what's been going on lately with all these delays, something really needs to be done. Yes I understand there are faults that can't be helped due to the weather etc. but like someone on the Facebook page said 'Why can't you have someone who will go along to the sections that are common failure areas and just get them to do a quick inspection.' I have to say it's a good point and would have prevented quite a few failures lately if just a quick track walk took place between trains. The impact of these delays is what's worst. Metros contingency plans seem to be non-existent. Today, it took them about two hours for replacement buses to begin operating, even then there was only four for a good while. Go North East pushed out a few extra 27s and had them running in pairs but that soon went up because of the loadings being too high.

Staff being deployed at stations was terrible, when I got to Jarrow about 30 minutes after the start of this mess there were no staff and the PIS just said 'No Metro service' since I'd checked before leaving I already knew but other people wouldn't of done and there were at least 5 people just waiting on the platform in the hope a train would show. This is where I think my idea of having staff deployed to set areas would be useful, for example The coast-St James, The Coast-Monument (via South Gosforth), Airport-Monument, Monument-Pelaw,Pelaw-South Hylton, Pelaw-South Shields, then in the peaks extra staff South Gosforth-Pelaw.

In this hot weather on buses with no air con and people sweating like mad because of the heat Metro should have had bottles of water being handed out to those in the queue at the bus stops. Surely Monument should have a store of water when the weather get's hot. Yes it may cost but the benefits will be huge.

If anyone can come out of this mess victorious though it's Go North East, they showed they were willing to push out extra buses from the depot and did everything in their power to keep people moving where Metro failed.

P.S You may have noticed the thread's title changed.

 

[Paul_10]

The Metro did advertise that Northern Rail was having extra trains between Newcastle/Sunderland and from the trains I seen coming from Newcastle, they looked full up too me so no doubt Metro passengers have been using them.

I also think its very easy to critisize Metro staff but if you were in their position and don't have full information, how would you deal with it?

For me personally, i am more concerned by the shocking unreliability that the metro has suffered this month than some lack of information from metro staff. It would be very easy to just blame it on the warm weather.

I also like to add that the FB page is a good place for a laugh and shows some passengers are quite clueless(and they say the staff are clueless!) when they get asked if trains are still running in such and such place even though there is no suspension is there. Probably the same passengers who try and open a door despite having large out of order stickers on them!

Fingers crossed the problem has been fixed by the start of service, if not tomorrow morning could be yet more fun and games.

 

[transmanche]

The Metro did advertise that Northern Rail was having extra trains between Newcastle/Sunderland and from the trains I seen coming from Newcastle, they looked full up too me so no doubt Metro passengers have been using them.

There was no mention of this on the poster next to the gateline at Haymarket - only a mention of replacement buses. Similarly there was no mention of trains on the tannoy message being played across the system: only a limited 900 service and acceptance on GNE 27.

TI also think its very easy to critisize Metro staff but if you were in their position and don't have full information, how would you deal with it?

I haven't criticised any Metro staff. As ever, staff on the frontline do the best they can with the information available. It's the responsibility of those 'up the chain' to make sure that accurate information is disseminated quickly.

 

[ModernRailways]

The Metro did advertise that Northern Rail was having extra trains between Newcastle/Sunderland and from the trains I seen coming from Newcastle, they looked full up too me so no doubt Metro passengers have been using them.

News to me, I never saw nor heard anything.

I also think its very easy to critisize Metro staff but if you were in their position and don't have full information, how would you deal with it?

No-one has criticized frontline Metro staff. I've said that those in the back room should be thinking of better contingency plans and having plans in place for this kind of event. All the frontline staff did a great job in what was more than likely challenging conditions at times. No doubt as the night went on the abuse they were given got worse. How many of those people won't have bought a ticket though! Something I've found funny, is once my Metro was delayed by around 5 minutes waiting for Pelaw to become free. Some chavs were sitting their slagging off the system. At Pelaw a group of plain clothed inspectors boarded and turns out they didn't even have a ticket. Moan if you have a ticket, but if you don't you aren't helping matters because more has to be spent on staff to protect revenue.

For me personally, i am more concerned by the shocking unreliability that the metro has suffered this month than some lack of information from metro staff. It would be very easy to just blame it on the warm weather.

You aren't the only one. My guess is the delays this month have just been a lot more noticeable then previously. Most of the delays have been on the core section (Pelaw-South Gosforth) which has meant delays are showing up a lot more because every train has to use that section and as such gets delayed.

I also like to add that the FB page is a good place for a laugh and shows some passengers are quite clueless(and they say the staff are clueless!) when they get asked if trains are still running in such and such place even though there is no suspension is there. Probably the same passengers who try and open a door despite having large out of order stickers on them!

I'm surprised at just how dumb people can be, some just seem to be on auto-pilot. A post by Metro, must complain about something or ask a ridiculous question. As for the doors, I was a set the other week and the driver took a set of doors out of service, he was just about to put the stickers on the window and somebody said 'No-one will take any notice, why not try sticking it across the buttons.' The driver did so and some idiots still persisted in trying to push the button behind the giant sticker saying 'DOORS NOT IN SERVICE'.

Fingers crossed the problem has been fixed by the start of service, if not tomorrow morning could be yet more fun and games.

Problem will be fixed, Metro have just posted saying 'Disruption cleared'.

 

[Person A]

Easy answer is that it depends. Something like a door tones fault, the train can go straight to the depot. With other things, it is more complicated.

Actually no. I have had such, and had to make announcements "Doors closing" then closing doors. But you request a changeover ASAP whether you get one is a matter of if any sets are spare, any spare drivers are handy

 

[blue sabre]

Those problems today were hell. Took me an hour and a half to get from Newcastle to Jarrow. No extra peak services on buses. The 27 was full from Newcastle, only two people could get on. In my view the replacement bus should have been Gateshead to Heworth with the 27 being the bus to/from Newcastle.

Obviously I dont know what ticket you hold, but should you be in that position again got to P3 at Monument and catch the metro to Percy Main. You can get the #9 bus from there to Jarrow bus station and you are only looking at about 10 minutes or so extra on your travel.
You could even go to Howdon to the pedestrian tunnel amd use the shuttle bus for free to get over to Jarrow.
I came home this way yesterday and had no issues.

Always a good idea to have a backup!

 

[142094]

Actually no. I have had such, and had to make announcements "Doors closing" then closing doors. But you request a changeover ASAP whether you get one is a matter of if any sets are spare, any spare drivers are handy

As for when the pooey stuff hits the whirly air conditioner, believe me, the driver can do NO RIGHT. It is HORRIBLE. You are going to get blame, no matter what. From all sides. Blame culture has never been so bad in UK not just Metro. The LAW is actively attacking people trying to do their jobs, and people use these idiotic, recently introduced "laws" to try to get money out of companies, so ....I'd better stop. I'd write volumes on this subject. AND the parasites that use these recently introduced "laws"

Depends if the PA goes at the same time as the door tones. No chance these days of getting a spare set these days during the peaks, unless the early morning/evening returns are coming back and one of them can be swapped.

Huw Lewis was on Look North last night, apparently the temperature measured at the work site was 40 C at rail level.

 

[ModernRailways]

Obviously I dont know what ticket you hold, but should you be in that position again got to P3 at Monument and catch the metro to Percy Main. You can get the #9 bus from there to Jarrow bus station and you are only looking at about 10 minutes or so extra on your travel.
You could even go to Howdon to the pedestrian tunnel amd use the shuttle bus for free to get over to Jarrow.
I came home this way yesterday and had no issues.

Always a good idea to have a backup!

I can get buses for free now, so getting the bus isn't a problem. Yesterday though as much as I wanted to get on the 56/58 they seem to take an age to get to Heworth. And I knew Gateshead would be bad as buses coming in would already be full and so very little chance of getting on.

I keep forgetting about this way. The #9 used to go to North Shields then they stopped it, but now it's running again through there. Normally the 27 is fairly quick, only 35 minutes or so from Jarrow to Newcastle if the roads are clear. But yesterday the bus was dangerously overcrowded and took 25 minutes just to get from Newcastle to Heworth and the roads were still quite quiet.

 

[Nexus_Comms]

A Spokesperson for Nexus writes:

I have noticed a few comments asking where Huw Lewis has been.

I can assure you Huw is still around! He has been very busy recently (in fact has done 6 media related interviews in the last 24 hours), and quite amused that people are saying he is in hiding.

Huw will be doing a live Q&A session along with a representative of DBTW next Tuesday 23 July on the Metro Facebook/Twitter feed between 12:30-13:30.

 

[ModernRailways]

I have noticed a few comments asking where Huw Lewis has been.

I can assure you Huw is still around! He has been very busy recently (in fact has done 6 media related interviews in the last 24 hours), and quite amused that people are saying he is in hiding.

Where can we find all of these media interviews? Why hasn't the Nexus website/Youtube page got any sort of interview on? Six Interviews, all no doubt saying the exact same scripted thing?

Huw will be doing a live Q&A session along with a representative of DBTW next Tuesday 23 July on the Metro Facebook/Twitter feed between 12:30-13:30.

What about those of us who don't want to use Facebook/Twitter? Most of the questions on there are people just moaning and you don't really get many good questions. Why doesn't the Nexus website have this? There used to be a Q&A page on the Nexus forums but when you switched that seemed to vanish. Surely that would be a better place as people actually have to go there, instead of just seeing it in their feed on Facebook/Twitter and moaning because Metro have posted something.
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Quick question. Are drivers allowed to drive with their cab door open whilst in passenger service? Saw a driver today going across Pelaw Junction towards South Shields with his door wide open. First time I've seen cab doors open on Metro.

 

[transmanche]

Well we now know what operating system they're using!

(Spotted at Regent Centre on 18 July.)

 

[hacman]

Well we now know what operating system they're using!

(Spotted at Regent Centre on 18 July.)

Not at all surprising really.

Windows Embedded is used for many ticketing devices and media players (like those at Haymarket) and works rather well, as it means that the OEM for the hardware doesn't need to actively maintain their own Linux distribution.

Windows Embedded also has some rather neat features for managing devices and facilitating imaging/deployment. All things that contribute to keeping the SLA high.

Just a shame that whoever built the image didn't do so in such a way that errors and popups are suppressed from appearing on the customer display.

Jon

 

[Person A]

Depends if the PA goes at the same time as the door tones. No chance these days of getting a spare set these days during the peaks, unless the early morning/evening returns are coming back and one of them can be swapped.

Huw Lewis was on Look North last night, apparently the temperature measured at the work site was 40 C at rail level.

Oh yeah - not often both go though. Normally closing the desk down and reopening will get door tones again, but PA is another matter. BUT if they're stretched even THAT may not get you to run off. UNLESS you say to controller you're REQUESTING as concern over safety putting the onus back onto him (something happens you'll still be blamed though, so best these health and safety-nazi days is to run off the set

 

[Crimzz]

All the new revenue devices work on Windows XP. The ticket machines, The pop card validators and the barriers.

 

[Muzer]

That icon looks pre-XP for me. Unless Windows Embedded comes with the old icons, I would have guessed that was 2000. I've never looked at Windows Embedded, though.

 

[danielnez1]

If they are using 2000/XP I hope they have decent security (i.e. Firewalls etc.) as 2000 is now end of life and Windows XP will be next year, so it won't receive any more security updates.

Regarding Linux, the "professional" distros like Red Hat Enteprise and SUSE Enterprise have some good custom deployment options now, so there would be no need for OEM's to maintain their own Linux distributions.

 

[Person A]

If they are using 2000/XP I hope they have decent security.

Could be wrong, but the canteen PC's I'm pretty sure were on Windows 7, so I doubt the company's OS will be any lesser

 

[hacman]

That icon looks pre-XP for me. Unless Windows Embedded comes with the old icons, I would have guessed that was 2000. I've never looked at Windows Embedded, though.

Windows Embedded is always just an edition of the nearest major version - so will look identical to Windows XP, etc. Usually it will make use of the "classic" style theme though, so as to save on systems resources. So unless you see the "about" popup or the boot splash, you'd not be able to tell the difference. The difference in embedded is how you deploy - i.e. you can add and remove modules of the core OS as you please (among other things).

RHEL and SUSE and such do have good deployment tools, however, you really do pay for this functionality. And since the support offered from Red Hat and SUSE will likely not cover much of value in such deployments, it becomes just as effective to roll your own as you'd need to ensure there was complete in-depth knowledge of the distro in your support team anyway.

If standard XP/7/whatever images and licenses have been deployed on these devices, someone really has dropped the ball mind... for a start embedded licenses have a quite considerable cost advantage, and the support arrangements are further extended.

As for security, if whoever designed their network has worked in IT for more than 10 minutes these devices will NOT be exposed to the outside world (i.e. The Internet). That mitigates many of the potential issues.

Jon

 

[Muzer]

...but even if the theme is changed, the new icons will still be used, I believe - unless I'm going crazy (I haven't used Windows seriously in quite some time). I'm talking specifically about the very outdated-looking icon of the globe and the monitors. Very reminiscent of 2000 and earlier for me.


EDIT: Sorry, misread your post. I was getting Windows Embedded confused with whatever Windows CE is called this week, yes. I pretty much agree with your post, but I still believe that it looks like it's using an old version of Windows Embedded, again based on that icon.

 

[ModernRailways]

Would it not be easier jut to ask Nexus and get a final answer? They tend to be pretty open on their forums. Alternatively you could always put in a FOI request.

 

[Paul_10]

Aslong they work, I don't think many passengers would even care what OS they are using although admittedly it is a bit of a surprise too see such an OS being used on what suppose to be quite modern technology.

3rd service suspension between Heworth and Monument this month due to a failed train, getting beyond laughable now and you start to wonder what on earth are Nexus/DBTW going to do about it. Can't use the weather as a back up now. I think Im right in saying there must of been about 4 unplanned service suspensions in the last 2 weeks, worrying times.

 

[Muzer]

Just grabbed a screenshot off Wikipedia, the icons in the theme are definitely the new XP ones. Since I don't recognise the icon in that dialogue as being an XP one, I can only conclude that it's running something based off 2000 or perhaps NT. Please correct me if I've missed something.

(I know passengers don't care, but passengers don't care about 90% of the things we talk about on here )

 

[hacman]

If I remember correctly that icon is still found in newer versions, although I can't say 100% as I tend to use Linux/UNIX these days more, or when in Windows I work at the command line remotely.

I doubt 2000 or NT are being used though, as I don't believe its easily possible to license them now. I'd say we're looking at XPe, or 7e. 7e with the basic theme will still use XP-like icons. (Also - NT 4 doesn't support USB, so that would be an immediate no-no in these devices).

Such devices don't need the latest version though, as the only things that will be getting used are the OS GUI/shell, IO stacks and TCP/IP stack - i.e. just to host the 3rd party application.

Bad to see the suspension today - yes! Interesting that they don't mention the fact people can use Northern though.

Jon

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

I see that this Tyne and Wear Metro master thread has now been running for over three years. Congratulations on this.

It has been the inspiration for quite a number of threads that enable various light rail projects to set up their own dedicated master threads.