Tyne and Wear Metro

Discussion in 'Other Public Transport' started by 142094, 14 Jun 2010.

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  1. 142094

    142094 Established Member

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    I've heard some talk about the Metrocars being transported by rail, so therefore using the shared tracks on the Sunderland line to get down to Doncaster.

    Couple of questions:

    1) What type of loco(s) and barrier stock would be needed for a move such as this?

    2) What speed would they be limited to?

    3) Is there any rules saying that this cannot be done?

    For three I've heard there has to be special dispensation given, which apparently has been agreed.
     
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  3. jopsuk

    jopsuk Veteran Member

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    Surely there would be no more problem moving them than moving London Underground stock by rail? The new "S-Stock" has been moved between converted tanker wagons, hauled by class 20s- top'n'tailed using pairs at each end!
     
  4. Failed Unit

    Failed Unit Established Member

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    Considering that they are already OK to operate on national rail I can't see an issue, it will just be a case of having the right barrier vechiles.
     
  5. 142094

    142094 Established Member

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    That would mean some new couplings coming from somewhere, as the ones on the Metro stock don't match anything else AFAIK (although they do look very similar to 14x (BSI?) couplings.
     
  6. starrymarkb

    starrymarkb Established Member

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    grab some old Wagons, Fit metro couplers, problem solved! simples!
     
  7. 142094

    142094 Established Member

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    I guess we'll be finding out soon enough!
     
  8. StoneRoad

    StoneRoad Member

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    IIRC most of them were delivered by rail, I seem to remember watching out of the office windows, as they came north over the diamond crossing on their way to South Gosforth. (Via Manors) They were part of a normal goods train, the first ones were right behind the loco. Can't think of more details at the moment. (I doubt if can I find my pictures after all this time....?)
     
  9. 142094

    142094 Established Member

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    Not sure if you know/can remember, but when did the link from the Metro network to the BR lines at Manors close?
     
  10. DaveNewcastle

    DaveNewcastle Established Member Fares Advisor

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    I can't be exact, but it was shortly before the land near Manors station which is now Newcastle Science Park was cleared to build that Park, so I guess it will have been around 1986 -89.

    You can still see two parts of the overbridge when you walk between New Bridge Street and the foobridges over the Central Motorway.
    - New Bridge Street twists and rises and then falls over a concrete-walled cutting (now without track),
    - if you peer over the south edge of the footpath, you can see the old stone arch of the earlier tunnel's portal (which now just leads into the Science Park - not that anything resembling science is done there).

    Forum member eezypeazy made an intersting post about Manors here.
     
  11. 142094

    142094 Established Member

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    Very, very interesting that post by eezypeazy. If you travel from Central to Morpeth, just after Argyle Street bridge you can still see the remains of the line that would have run north to east, which has been filled in with concrete (in the same style as much of the Metro infrastructure as well).

    There is also an entrance to something next to the BT building on Melbourne Street, the front of which has yellow enamel panelling again like most Metro stations. Not sure if this is some sort of access to the underground section?
     
  12. flymo

    flymo Established Member

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    I was born in Newcastle in 1966 and I can remember bits of the Metro construction and racking my little brain here, I seem to remember that Manors Station heading to Gosforth was closed to passengers in about 1978 to allow for construction of the Metro. There may have still been access however to the Metro from Manors BR Station to facilitate delivery of the trains. Makes sense really. I'm sure I too have seen photos of Metro's on the big railway hauled behind a 31 or something but can't find them at the moment.
    During the first years of Metro services there were still occasional BR freights on Metro tracks, certainly one from Rowntree's Fawdon factory along through the depot avoiding line and on to Benton and the ECML via Benton curve. This may have also been one possible route for the Metro trains onto the Metro network. Not sure though, just a suggestion.
    One nagging thing in the back of my mind, (no - not the wife this time) is that they were delivered on the back of a low loader being split at the turntable in the centre of each car. Really can't remember now.
     
  13. Oracle

    Oracle Established Member

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    I am not sure if this is the same line but there was a freight line that was eventually taken over and used as part of the extension to the Airport. I seem to recall that Class31s used to traverse it, with coal wagons. There was obviously a connection there.
     
  14. 142094

    142094 Established Member

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    Yes, that would have been the line to ICI Callerton, although I'm not sure when it closed. The original Bank Foot station only had one platform for terminating trains, and when the extension to the Airport was opened they had to put another in.

    You can still see evidence of the line that served Rowntrees just after Kingston Park on the way into town. Again it could be possible that Metros used Benton curve, but I've never seen any pictures of it, must be hidden away somewhere.
     
  15. flymo

    flymo Established Member

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    Just been having a fly over the North East on Google Earth and I wonder, if they are going by rail, how they will be accessing the main line from Gosforth depot. I can't imagine that there will be diesel haulage from the depot as the only way now onto the main line is via the Sunderland line. Can't imagine a loco though the tunnels under Newcastle can you?. There is no main line access now at Benton, and certainly none at Manors. So what are the options? Drive them under their own power to somewhere like East Boldon sidings, (I assume they are wired) or Sunderland Station and then hook them up to a diesel for the journey south?

    Just idle curiosity really.
     
  16. Oracle

    Oracle Established Member

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    T & W Metro have three Hunslet battery-electric locos which they presumably use for shunting etc.
     
  17. 142094

    142094 Established Member

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    East Boldon sidings look perfect for it, I think they can handle two Metro sets at a time, but of course depends on how many they will be transporting each time. This also fits in with the route I have been told about, with them going along the Durham Coast and not the ECML south of Newcastle.
     
  18. blue sabre

    blue sabre Member

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    I was wondering if they would hook them up in Pelaw depot, just off the NR tracks and the metro system at thet point is signalled to NR standards.
     
  19. 142094

    142094 Established Member

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    Problem with Pelaw sidings is that once you have entered them in the direction of South Shields, the only way you can get to the shared lines is to run wrong line to get access to the line to Sunderland, and I don't think the signalling is there for it to run bi-directional. Probably easier just to send it to East Boldon and go from there.
     
  20. Frankfurt

    Frankfurt Member

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    The 1st car was due to be sent to Doncaster today via road.

    Battery locos were to push car into Hylton Street Sidings at North Shields (between North Shields and Meadowell stations). From there loaded onto flatbed for journey.

    Not sure how others are to be transported when full refurb programme commences. Wabtec will be doing 3 cars a-time I believe.
     
  21. 142094

    142094 Established Member

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    Saw that on the Nexus forums, so someone on Yahoo has duff gen. Either that or some will be going by road and some will be going by rail.
     
  22. flymo

    flymo Established Member

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    Just seen the video of 4041 on the Journal website. Yowzer, I thought they might have split the unit to transport it but the whole unit on the back of the trailer looks interesting.
     
  23. sprinterguy

    sprinterguy Established Member

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    Here's the link to the journal article, with pictures:
    http://www.journallive.co.uk/north-...-the-tracks-for-refurbishment-61634-26696917/

    As you can see, 4041 is the first to head off to Doncaster-it's going to be away for 9 months apparently-that's a pretty extensive refurbishment! I assume that the refurbs will speed up after the first few, if they're going to get through all 90 trains in 5 years- 18 units per year. I'm interested to know what the new livery is going to be, it'll be nice to have a bit of a change, plus I've never thought that the full yellow doors work with the current corporate scheme.

    I suppose it's not too tricky to fit the whole unit onto one road trailer, an entire Metrocar is 26 metres long, only 3 metres more than a mark 3 or 156 carriage for instance, so shouldn't pose too much of a problem. Apparently it's the first Metrocar to be transported by road as a complete unit since the two prototypes were delivered in 1975. Has ruined the fun a bit though, it would have been interesting seeing Metrocars being hauled down the ECML!
     
  24. 142094

    142094 Established Member

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    Was on the Nexus forums that the first one will be a 'test', so if eveything goes to plan with that one they should be getting through them at a faster rate. No news on the livery as yet. Yellow doors are there for DDA compliance, although I wish they would change the announcement when the doors are closing.
     
  25. A60K

    A60K Established Member

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    With refurbishments the first car tends to be a voyage of exploration. While in theory everything should be known about, there are sometimes alterations made to vehicles which don't get documented.

    The first car will be carefully looked at also to see how the interior fittings will be replaced and what work needs to be done in hidden areas.
     
  26. Huw Lewis of N

    Huw Lewis of N Member

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    Huw Lewis of Nexus writes: To answer the original question about moving Metrocars by rail to Doncaster - we looked at this but it can't be done for two reasons.
    First, the coupling systems on Metrocars do not match anything on the national rail network.
    Second, the Metrocars have a completely different braking system, so even if you could couple a loco onto a Metrocar you could not provide the through-braking to the whole train required for network operation.
    The trains could not move by their own power because we run on 1500vDC.
    As a result all 90 Metrocars will be moved to and from Doncaster by road. The loading point at Hylton Street yard in North Shields was chosen because it has the space to allow end-on loading of a full train onto a low-loader. The trains will be loco-hauled to and from the yard, having been prepared for loading at South Gosforth.
    So far as we know this is the first time a full-length train has been moved by road since the late 70s when the prototypes were moved to and from the text track (later arrivals came to Gosforth by rail). A train went to the Gateshead Garden Festival in 1990 by road, but was moved in two halfs.
     
  27. flymo

    flymo Established Member

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    Hi Mr. Lewis. Thanks for the update, very interesting. It must be an amazing sight to see. Just out of curiosity where there any axle loading difficulties to overcome? By that I mean the trailer used rather than the Metrocar, for crossing bridges etc. I guess the haulage company would take care of that side of things, I'm just curious that's all.
     
  28. Peter Mugridge

    Peter Mugridge Established Member

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    Hi Huw, remember me?:)


    I've been following this thread with interest - is there a planned schedule for the orderbin which each train will be refurbished or will the decision be made according to individual condition whenever one is due to be sent?
     
    Last edited: 2 Jul 2010
  29. 142094

    142094 Established Member

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    Huw's been telling us on the Nexus forums that the first set is a tester, which will take a couple of months, but once this has been sorted, the rest should follow very quickly.
     
  30. Darandio

    Darandio Established Member

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    ERRRRRRR, DOORS CLOSING!

    You can hear it in your sleep after a trip on the Metro. I can only presume the locals have just become immune to it.
     
  31. Peter Mugridge

    Peter Mugridge Established Member

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    I hope they leave the Paris Metro style low pitched door closing alarm tone alone; much easier to hear than the high pitched ringing used everywhere else these days.
     
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