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Tyne & Wear Metro Fleet Replacement: Awarded to Stadler

DanNCL

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The HST powercars made it as far as Hebburn. The 4 metrocars dragged the unit to Gosforth, formation was 4018 + 4073 + 4071 + 4086 + 555003.

This is likely the only time that Metrocars will be used on the deliveries, the next delivery whenever that is will likely see 555003 drag the new arrival on Nexus infrastructure.
 
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D821

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It must be a bit like the protective covering cars sometimes have applied when being delivered.
 

DanNCL

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The boarded up windows are to make it easier to run cables through the unit for delivery. All units will arrive like this.
 

ModernRailways

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Seeing HSTs on that stretch of line must've been something!
They've been along a few times with the ‘flying banana’ or network rails measurement train although that’s not likely to happen again now it’s all metro infra
 

DanNCL

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They've been along a few times with the ‘flying banana’ or network rails measurement train although that’s not likely to happen again now it’s all metro infra
It was usually the 950 on the same circuit that took in South Hylton, or occasionally a 37 hauled rake. Never the New Measurement Train to my knowledge, even if it was that wouldn’t have taken it into the platforms at Hebburn.

If a HST had ever ventured along there previously, it would have been pre 1981 and almost certainly the whole way to South Shields. But I doubt that happened either.
 

ModernRailways

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It was usually the 950 on the same circuit that took in South Hylton, or occasionally a 37 hauled rake. Never the New Measurement Train to my knowledge, even if it was that wouldn’t have taken it into the platforms at Hebburn.

If a HST had ever ventured along there previously, it would have been pre 1981 and almost certainly the whole way to South Shields. But I doubt that happened either.
Obviously it didn’t use the metro infra, as per my previous post. However, it certainly did go down, unsure of when it last did so but the last time I saw it, it would’ve been circa 2018/2019, it was trundling along between Bede and Jarrow.
 

DanNCL

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As the ongoing fleet shortage continues 4040+4083 are making a rare appearance on the Green line today as T110 (2I10 on RTT). They’ve been making almost daily appearances on the yellow line in recent weeks but they’ve been largely kept off the Green line.

4001 was with a battery loco immediately outside the new building this afternoon, clearly visible from the Airport branch. You could just about see the glass door on the road 555003 is on from the Airport branch, but 555003 itself is too far in to see unfortunately.

Obviously it didn’t use the metro infra, as per my previous post. However, it certainly did go down, unsure of when it last did so but the last time I saw it, it would’ve been circa 2018/2019, it was trundling along between Bede and Jarrow.
Surprised at that as Jarrow was usually part of the same circuit as South Hylton, and the NMT definitely hasn’t been there, a 37+Mark 1/2 set has though.

Entirely possible BR may have ran a HST to South Shields as the line didn’t shut to BR traffic for Metro conversion until 1981, but I don’t have any record of any such working, I assume unlikely.
 

The Laziest

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As the ongoing fleet shortage continues 4040+4083 are making a rare appearance on the Green line today as T110 (2I10 on RTT). They’ve been making almost daily appearances on the yellow line in recent weeks but they’ve been largely kept off the Green line.

4001 was with a battery loco immediately outside the new building this afternoon, clearly visible from the Airport branch. You could just about see the glass door on the road 555003 is on from the Airport branch, but 555003 itself is too far in to see unfortunately.


Surprised at that as Jarrow was usually part of the same circuit as South Hylton, and the NMT definitely hasn’t been there, a 37+Mark 1/2 set has though.

Entirely possible BR may have ran a HST to South Shields as the line didn’t shut to BR traffic for Metro conversion until 1981, but I don’t have any record of any such working, I assume unlikely.
What is causing the fleet shortage again? I hope it gets sorted as soon as possible because peak shorts were supposed to be back weeks ago...
 

DanNCL

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What is causing the fleet shortage again? I hope it gets sorted as soon as possible because peak shorts were supposed to be back weeks ago...
Poor reliability and a spare parts shortage.

Peak shorts did very briefly return but were quickly given up on. They won’t return now until 20th March at the earliest.

555003 is now outside Gosforth depot, visible from the Airport branch. Not clear if it moved under its own power or if it was assisted by a Metrocar or a battery loco.
 
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Kryten2340

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Just curious. How did 555003 switch from NR infra to Metro infra at Pelaw? Was a crane involved or Was a metro unit waiting on Pelaw Junction to grab it from NR infra then run wrong road to the nearest crossover point?
 

swt_passenger

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Just curious. How did 555003 switch from NR infra to Metro infra at Pelaw? Was a crane involved or Was a metro unit waiting on Pelaw Junction to grab it from NR infra then run wrong road to the nearest crossover point?
It would have run onto the newly redoubled Metro track towards South Shields, as far as Hebburn’s eastbound platform. (As per post #751 by @DanNCL ) This is the route the Jarrow fuel depot trains would now take since December last year. This has only been possible since the recent Metro Flow improvement works.
 
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DanNCL

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555003 is now outside Gosforth depot, visible from the Airport branch. Not clear if it moved under its own power or if it was assisted by a Metrocar or a battery loco.
Back in the shed again this morning.

Just curious. How did 555003 switch from NR infra to Metro infra at Pelaw? Was a crane involved or Was a metro unit waiting on Pelaw Junction to grab it from NR infra then run wrong road to the nearest crossover point?
It would have run onto the newly redoubled Metro track towards South Shields, as far as Hebburn’s eastbound platform. (As per post #751 by @DanNCL ) This is the route the Jarrow fuel depot trains would now take since December last year. This has only been possible since the recent Metro Flow improvement works.
Yes, onto the South Shields branch.
There was quite a bit of shunting involved, which was something like this:
555 arrives with 43s.
43s detach from the front and run round, this will be when they reached Hebburn (Newcastle bound platform).
43s remove barriers from the rear of the formation and shunt out of the way.
4 Metrocars arrive, couple to 555, then take it to Gosforth.
43s return to collect the remaining barriers.
43s and barriers leave.
The 43s went as far as Hebburn, the 555 didn’t get much further than the junction between Nexus and NR infrastructure.
 

ExRes

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Schedules showing on Rail Record, not yet on RTT, for next week

Tuesday - 1702 0Z54 Kings Norton OTPD to Db Cargo Fan A and B Sidings and 2349 7Q55 to Belmont Down Yard

Can't see anything else as yet
 

DanNCL

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555004 has apparently been seen on the continent heading for the channel tunnel. I don’t have any more info yet.

At least two more units, 555005 and 555006, are complete at St Margrethen.
 
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Fleetmaster

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Just to note, the graffiti was covered extensive by the bbc, the tagging being clearly shown on tv and online, so they would be the logical starting point for any argument that exposure fuels this behaviour. And regarding public interet, such coverage was at least useful in showing the tagging clearly took some time, so probably was a serious failure of security.

Definitely a PR hit, but only in the sense there's a perfectly good train factory down the road and a perfectly serviceable port right next to the depot, but somehow a supplier in deepest continental Europe was chosen.
 

XAM2175

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Definitely a PR hit, but only in the sense there's a perfectly good train factory down the road and a perfectly serviceable port right next to the depot, but somehow a supplier in deepest continental Europe was chosen.
"somehow" :rolleyes:

This was all thrashed out back when the order was first made, and it's really quite stale now.
 

Fleetmaster

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"somehow" :rolleyes:

This was all thrashed out back when the order was first made, and it's really quite stale now.
Of course, I suspected it was. But this incident was still a nice reminder that these sort of decisions always resonate for years to come. If they haven't for example evidently bothered to think about a simple thing like the secure delivery of the untis, if only for their own reputaution, what else has been overlooked?
 

ExRes

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Of course, I suspected it was. But this incident was still a nice reminder that these sort of decisions always resonate for years to come. If they haven't for example evidently bothered to think about a simple thing like the secure delivery of the untis, if only for their own reputaution, what else has been overlooked?

I think you're getting a little overwrought here, look around the world you live in, there are mindless vandals everywhere you go ruining everything they can, why would you think the railway is or should be any different?
 

Fleetmaster

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I think you're getting a little overwrought here, look around the world you live in, there are mindless vandals everywhere you go ruining everything they can, why would you think the railway is or should be any different?
Well, as I was alluding to, the fact that someone was apparently able to gain close access to a train for a long time, a vehicle that was potentially travelling to a public unveiling (but didn't) or a media laden private arrival (which it did), is pretty scary. It suggests either a failure of planning (risk assesment) or execution of the security plan.

I personally can't think of a similar scenario, in every one it seems to me either the vehicle would be better protected, or the risk would be much less. And on that score, given how much it costs to rectify and how good technology is getting, are we not at the stage now where it might be cost efficient to use proximity sensors to detect when people are hanging around trains that are either meant to be in service (but not at a station) or parked in a secure location?

When I heard of this incident I was reminded of a bizarre sight I saw once during a rural bike ride. Four tripod mounted security systems equipped with cameras and sensors. They sparked into life when I got within ten feet of the actual security fence, warning me of the imminent arrival of the Fuzz. What were they guarding? A pile of breeze blocks and some oil drums as far as I could tell. And if not, it was pretty obvious that whatever might have or was about to be placed into that small plot in the middle of nowhere, couldn't be as remotely valuable as a brand new Metro train.
 

D821

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I saw something similar by Neston station last year; a fenced off compound, some generators, materials and security kit that looked like something out of Halflife 2.
 

Tcmichael

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I saw something similar by Neston station last year; a fenced off compound, some generators, materials and security kit that looked like something out of Halflife 2.
Quite possibly a spent or new nuclear fuel shipment
 

Trestrol

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Well, as I was alluding to, the fact that someone was apparently able to gain close access to a train for a long time, a vehicle that was potentially travelling to a public unveiling (but didn't) or a media laden private arrival (which it did), is pretty scary. It suggests either a failure of planning (risk assesment) or execution of the security plan.
It doesn't take long for a train to be tagged. Metros have been sprayed while the driver changed ends at Monkseaton on the peak shorts. The problem is that there are no sheds at South Gosforth now to put them out the way. Just the new farmers barn Stadler has built as a repair shed.
 

DanNCL

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To note, assuming that 555004 does arrive next week as expected, it'll be hauled from Pelaw to Gosforth by four Metrocars again as 555003 won't be ready to do the drag itself. As soon as is possible an already delivered 555 will collect new arrivals from Pelaw.

Just to note, the graffiti was covered extensive by the bbc, the tagging being clearly shown on tv and online, so they would be the logical starting point for any argument that exposure fuels this behaviour. And regarding public interet, such coverage was at least useful in showing the tagging clearly took some time, so probably was a serious failure of security.
The BBC didn't help matters, but one could argue it's the enthusiasts to blame, as if enthusiasts hadn't posted photos on the internet the BBC wouldn't have known about it!

Definitely a PR hit, but only in the sense there's a perfectly good train factory down the road and a perfectly serviceable port right next to the depot, but somehow a supplier in deepest continental Europe was chosen.
The 'perfectly good' train factory in the North East has yet to build a single train that isn't going to require extensive remedial work in the next few years to ensure it's safe to run long term.

Five manufacturers bid: Bombardier, Hitachi, CAF, CRRC/Downer and Stadler. Stadler offered the best product and were selected accordingly. In my opinion the only manufacturer that could possibly have supplied something better than Stadler was Siemens, but they didn't submit a bid.

"somehow" :rolleyes:

This was all thrashed out back when the order was first made, and it's really quite stale now.
You'd be amazed how many people outside of railway circles still bang on about it. The first thing many Geordies or Mackems said when they heard the new train had arrived from Switzerland was "why wasn't it built in the UK"...

But this incident was still a nice reminder that these sort of decisions always resonate for years to come. If they haven't for example evidently bothered to think about a simple thing like the secure delivery of the untis, if only for their own reputaution, what else has been overlooked?
It was discussed not that long ago, possibly on this thread, that groups of graffiti 'artists' were offering a cash reward to whoever was the first to graffiti one of the new trains in the UK. It's hardly a surprise that the unit was vandalised at the very first opportunity to do so on UK soil. The unit did have security with it throughout it's time at Tyne Yard, and security staff also lined all the Metro stations between Pelaw and Gosforth whilst it was towed over the metro network. Clearly security needs to be tightened at Wembley, but other than that security was already really tight for this delivery.

The absence of a cash incentive will likely mean that future deliveries won't be anywhere near as much of a target as the first one was.

The problem is that there are no sheds at South Gosforth now to put them out the way. Just the new farmers barn Stadler has built as a repair shed.
Gosforth has a 24/7 security presence as does Howdon. Stabling outside at those two locations isn't an issue, it's stabling anywhere other than Gosforth or Howdon that's troublesome.
 

ModernRailways

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Just to note, the graffiti was covered extensive by the bbc, the tagging being clearly shown on tv and online, so they would be the logical starting point for any argument that exposure fuels this behaviour. And regarding public interet, such coverage was at least useful in showing the tagging clearly took some time, so probably was a serious failure of security.

Definitely a PR hit, but only in the sense there's a perfectly good train factory down the road and a perfectly serviceable port right next to the depot, but somehow a supplier in deepest continental Europe was chosen.
The train would've been tagged wherever it ended up, including here at Gosforth, regardless of security levels. It's the first of a new fleet of trains, the vast majority of graffiti artists will try and tag it to get their name out there and boost their reputation.

The 'perfectly good train factory down the road' didn't provide as good a bid and is Japanese, if they had of won the bid the chances are they wouldn't have made the trains at the 'perfectly good train factory down the road', they may have been assembled there but we require something more bespoke. If it was built here then the chances of delays and issues I can imagine being significant. In an international world is it really an issue that we can choose to get the best product available? As much as I think Nexus are totally incompetent and haven't a clue how to run a transport system, with the procurement of this new rolling stock they have, in my view, made an excellent choice. Stadler is well known for having reliable, and well built stock, that typically ages incredibly well. There's no reason the Metro shouldn't have some of the best rolling stock on the market, it has to last and it has to be ready for the future, whatever that may hold in terms of expansion.

If they haven't for example evidently bothered to think about a simple thing like the secure delivery of the untis, if only for their own reputaution, what else has been overlooked?
The unit was delivered securely, to suggest otherwise is a lie, and to decide that other things may have been overlooked because a train got tagged is completely asinine.

Well, as I was alluding to, the fact that someone was apparently able to gain close access to a train for a long time, a vehicle that was potentially travelling to a public unveiling (but didn't) or a media laden private arrival (which it did), is pretty scary. It suggests either a failure of planning (risk assesment) or execution of the security plan.

I personally can't think of a similar scenario, in every one it seems to me either the vehicle would be better protected, or the risk would be much less. And on that score, given how much it costs to rectify and how good technology is getting, are we not at the stage now where it might be cost efficient to use proximity sensors to detect when people are hanging around trains that are either meant to be in service (but not at a station) or parked in a secure location?

When I heard of this incident I was reminded of a bizarre sight I saw once during a rural bike ride. Four tripod mounted security systems equipped with cameras and sensors. They sparked into life when I got within ten feet of the actual security fence, warning me of the imminent arrival of the Fuzz. What were they guarding? A pile of breeze blocks and some oil drums as far as I could tell. And if not, it was pretty obvious that whatever might have or was about to be placed into that small plot in the middle of nowhere, couldn't be as remotely valuable as a brand new Metro train.
Professional graffiti artists can fully tag a train (top to bottom, full carriage) in a minute, sometimes even less. They plan what they're doing, and they will have likely practiced, they aren't like your local yobs who've gone to B&Q and nicked a few spray cans and are just writing a tag on things. All it takes is one security guard to turn their head, go to the toilet etc. and the train is tagged, next thing they smell the paint fumes, have a look and the people who were tagging it have already vanished into the night.
The only way it could be better protected would be to have a ring of security around the train at all times, and lets be real, does anybody really care that much? It'll be cleaned off and at the press unveiling it will be all nice and sparkly new. If anything, it's good that it's been tagged already as it should mean there's not as much of a big international interest, and it will be more just a local interest to get it tagged, which can largely be mitigated against with the train remaining in depot and when out and about in testing not announcing it anywhere - much easier to do on Metro, than on NR.
 

Fleetmaster

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Taggers aren't superhuman, money can't buy an invisibility cloak, and you can clearly see from the size and detail of the vandalised area, the breach in security was sufficient to be of concern to anyone who has been watching the news recently.

As for Stadler, given the Metro is a pretty unique systen that has never seen a new train for forty years, it would be quite premature to assume that they're not going to experience the same issues Hitachi has. Having any kind of employee presence just down the road, never mind an actual facility, is an advantage in numerous ways, and I speak as someone who used to work for a small but high tech engineering OEM with clients and suppliers all over the world. Try as we might, the customers within a day's drive got better service in the testing and maintenance field than those in continental Europe. Serving America required a step change in associated costs.

A failure to ensure the secure transit of their first unit on its delivery journey is an established fact that speaks directly to the sort of attention to detail you would hope was there to ensure far worse problems aren't waiting to be discovered at this late stage. As has already been alluded to, any evidence that a unit has been tampered with in transit, is legitimate grounds to reject it outright, up to and including a return to the factory. History tells us that finding yourself in a situation where you feel under pressure not to exercise your contractual rights, is a bad situation to be in.

The BBC would have likely caught this incident in all scenarios, and published it in the public interest. Or worse, would have eventually figured out they were lied to by Nexus or Stadler. They have covered this project in detail from day one, and this was an important milestone.
 

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