Uber taxis

[Bletchleyite]

According to their website, TfL has responsibility for only 5% of London's road network, the 'red routes'. These will, of course, have far more than 5% of London's bus lanes on them, but nevertheless the City could have adopted a 'no taxis' policy in those bus lanes under their jurisdiction.

Or, perhaps, a "no stopping, even taxis" one - it's taxis stopping to load/unload that cause issues, not so much them being there. There could perhaps be an exemption if the passenger on board has a disability, but otherwise it is not fair that one rich businessman gets to hold up several buses' worth of others just so he doesn't have to walk from the nearest road junction with a back street not containing a bus lane.

Neil

 

[Deerfold]

According to their website, TfL has responsibility for only 5% of London's road network, the 'red routes'. These will, of course, have far more than 5% of London's bus lanes on them, but nevertheless the City could have adopted a 'no taxis' policy in those bus lanes under their jurisdiction.

Yes. You seemed to be suggesting that the City was different from the rest of London in this respect.

 

[Busaholic]

Yes. You seemed to be suggesting that the City was different from the rest of London in this respect.

The City of London Corporation is different from the 32 London boroughs in almost every respect in its constitution. You can regard this as an anachronism, a perversion, a delight or even a conspiracy but it is a fact. If any of the 32 boroughs wanted to ban taxis in bus lanes they would have to consult with other boroughs, as well as the London assembly: the City would not, though I suspect the Mayor's office would be kept informed at all times. Anyway, nowhere did I say or imply that only the City could do this, only that they were the only ones who've publically come out and said they were thinking of doing it. Many Acts of Parliament referring to London exclude the City or mention specifically that its area is included in the scope of the legislation.

 

[Gemz91]

Is it Ubber who are owned by Google?

Personally won't use them until they accept cash payments, but I suspect I'm in the minority there.

 

[WelshBluebird]

Is it Ubber who are owned by Google?

Personally won't use them until they accept cash payments, but I suspect I'm in the minority there.

Nope nothing to do with Google.
And tbh I can't see them ever accepting cash payments. Seems to totally go against their business model and what the service is for.

 

[jopsuk]

Uber were recently in a development partnership with Google- it was assumed that this was towards driverless taxis, pairing Uber's app with Google's driverless car tech. But that recently split, with Uber saying they'll develop their own driverless vehicles and Google now assumed to be working on their own Uber-esque system.

 

[Deerfold]

The City of London Corporation is different from the 32 London boroughs in almost every respect in its constitution. You can regard this as an anachronism, a perversion, a delight or even a conspiracy but it is a fact. If any of the 32 boroughs wanted to ban taxis in bus lanes they would have to consult with other boroughs, as well as the London assembly: the City would not, though I suspect the Mayor's office would be kept informed at all times. Anyway, nowhere did I say or imply that only the City could do this, only that they were the only ones who've publically come out and said they were thinking of doing it. Many Acts of Parliament referring to London exclude the City or mention specifically that its area is included in the scope of the legislation.

You were saying that The Mayor had no jurisdiction in the City of London - I mentioned that he did over the TLRN in the same way as any other borough. I was careful to say it was only in this respect that they were the same.

I realise that in many other ways the City is unique or unusual.

Perhaps I should have only quoted your first sentence in post #32 to be clearer.

 

[Busaholic]

You were saying that The Mayor had no jurisdiction in the City of London - I mentioned that he did over the TLRN in the same way as any other borough. I was careful to say it was only in this respect that they were the same.

I realise that in many other ways the City is unique or unusual.

Perhaps I should have only quoted your first sentence in post #32 to be clearer.

I think we are in general agreement. I don't believe the Mayor's mandate extends to the City (I could quote lots of references, but I'm sure you can find them for yourself and, if nothing else, they make fascinating reading, horrifying though they are to anyone who has the slightest belief in democracy) but I am sure some administrative arrangement exists for oversight of the red routes within the City boundaries. Actually, the City of London's relationship to both the rest of London and the United Kingdom has striking parallels to the Vatican, Rome and Italy: a statement I'd have myself condemned as a tad hyperbolic until I really started delving into it. It may not be quite a state, but in many ways not far off being one, and worship certainly plays a great part. Now, too far off topic

 

[EbbwJunction1]

I hadn't heard of this before and, despite having a (very) quick look at Wikipedia, I don't really understand who they are and how they work.

Would someone like to give me a quick rundown on this, please? Thank you.

 

[stut]

It's basically a clever minicab service, but instead of calling an office, you use an app which connects you directly with a driver. The drivers also have an app, so you can see exactly where they are and how long it will take for them to reach you (and they can find you). So, when your journey starts, the driver's app records the distance/time, and when it's finished, that charges your account (linked to a credit card) automatically. You then rate the driver.

Several types of vehicle are offered, including (in some locations) small ones with lower rates. There is also a concept called 'surge pricing'. Where demand exceeds supply in busy areas, they will increase the prices (this is clear on the app). This is nominally to attract more drivers to the area.

So Uber is by-passing the minicab company, taking a smaller cut with larger volumes.

 

[EbbwJunction1]

It's basically a clever minicab service, but instead of calling an office, you use an app which connects you directly with a driver. The drivers also have an app, so you can see exactly where they are and how long it will take for them to reach you (and they can find you). So, when your journey starts, the driver's app records the distance/time, and when it's finished, that charges your account (linked to a credit card) automatically. You then rate the driver.

Several types of vehicle are offered, including (in some locations) small ones with lower rates. There is also a concept called 'surge pricing'. Where demand exceeds supply in busy areas, they will increase the prices (this is clear on the app). This is nominally to attract more drivers to the area.

So Uber is by-passing the minicab company, taking a smaller cut with larger volumes.

Ah, I see ... very clever!

However, I haven't got a smartphone, so I won't be using them - not that they'll loose much sleep over that, of course!

Thank you.

 

[telstarbox]

I think it works in large built-up areas where there's a large pool of drivers who can quickly drive over to waiting passengers - the likes of Shetland Taxis probably don't need to worry.

 

[strowger]

Deleted

 

[CC 72100]

It's noticable how fast the minicab fleet in Leeds is converting to Uber - in 2 months since launch I reckon 50% are now Uber.

If you can't beat them, join them.

I do think that sooner or later though there will be controversy over here - Uber really took hold in Paris during my time there, and it led to protests from the 'normal' taxi drivers who claimed that Uber was stealing their trade (and illegal in French laws/ operating through a loophole)
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Several types of vehicle are offered, including (in some locations) small ones with lower rates. There is also a concept called 'surge pricing'. Where demand exceeds supply in busy areas, they will increase the prices (this is clear on the app). This is nominally to attract more drivers to the area.

Surge pricing notably took place in the hours following the Charlie Hebdo attack, due to the amount of people wanting to leave Paris, which was criticized by some for taking advantage of the situation.

 

[PermitToTravel]

A few years ago the City of London Corporation proposed banning taxis from bus lanes but the idea seemed to get quietly dropped, maybe under pressure from the Mayor of London's office (not that he has jurisdiction in the City).

The City have banned taxis from all of their bus lanes - have a look at the sign here. Notice anything different?

It's a brilliant move and every other highway authority in the country needs to follow suit, in my opinion. Pick up and set down - sure (when done sensibly), but taxis are private transport and should not be allowed to hold buses up or have special advantages over private motorists.

Outside London perhaps.

Inside London The Knowledge is quite a big factor.

Pretty much all Uber drivers will do it full-time, day in day out, and know perfectly well where they're going and the quickest route. For the cases where they don't, the app-based nature of the service means they'll always have a map in front of them, showing the destination and Google's suggested route. I'd never choose a hackney carriage over an Uber for the driver's geographical knowledge.

 

[thenorthern]

Uber is in Birmingham as well I think.

I haven't used it yet but I know people who do, they reckon its useful getting back in the evening after a night out as they don't need to worry about cash. Uber do an offer I think where if you sign someone else up you and your friend both get £10 credit which seems fair. I have also heard some people say that you can chose the music playing in the Taxi via your spottify account but I don't know if that's true. I think also the drivers can rate the passengers so that if they are abusive then Uber will suspend the passengers account to keep the bad people out.

 

[deltic]

Uber is in Birmingham as well I think.

I haven't used it yet but I know people who do, they reckon its useful getting back in the evening after a night out as they don't need to worry about cash. Uber do an offer I think where if you sign someone else up you and your friend both get £10 credit which seems fair. I have also heard some people say that you can chose the music playing in the Taxi via your spottify account but I don't know if that's true. I think also the drivers can rate the passengers so that if they are abusive then Uber will suspend the passengers account to keep the bad people out.

Certainly saw a minicab in Brum on Friday with a uber sticker on it

 

[Bletchleyite]

Not in MK, but a local taxi firm (Speedline) is now using an app which is basically identical to it, including card payments. Used it for the first time yesterday, and I thought it was very convenient. Will definitely use it again.

As others have said, the biggest advantage is not having to pay cash for what is a relatively high value service.

Neil

 

[Deerfold]

Pretty much all Uber drivers will do it full-time, day in day out, and know perfectly well where they're going and the quickest route. For the cases where they don't, the app-based nature of the service means they'll always have a map in front of them, showing the destination and Google's suggested route. I'd never choose a hackney carriage over an Uber for the driver's geographical knowledge.

My response was to mph1977's claim about the difference between a Hackney carriage and a minicab. In London that includes the need to pass the knowledge, whatever your views on how useful that is.

Many people do prefer to know their driver has an initmate knowledge of the area - and of course the Knowledge is not just a geographical test.

I've come across minicab drivers with shocking local knowledge - one went at least twice the distance he needed to after we checked he knew where he was going as we didn't know the location of the wedding we were going to (we asked when we rang as we caould have printed instructions out; and checked when he arrived). After some argument we paid half the amount on the meter in that instance but were rushing to be in the wedding in time.

 

[thenorthern]

I think one concern some drivers have with Uber is that it can do ride share system called Uber Pool.

I am not 100% how this works but I think its a case of if 2 people near each other want to go to the same location uber will allocate them a shared taxi to save them money. This is what some Black Cab drivers are worried about though.

 

[radamfi]

I think one concern some drivers have with Uber is that it can do ride share system called Uber Pool.

I am not 100% how this works but I think its a case of if 2 people near each other want to go to the same location uber will allocate them a shared taxi to save them money. This is what some Black Cab drivers are worried about though.

I wonder why shared taxis haven't taken off? They are popular in Belfast, though, and allegedly BlaBlaCar is popular on the continent.

 

[thenorthern]

I wonder why shared taxis haven't taken off? They are popular in Belfast, though, and allegedly BlaBlaCar is popular on the continent.

I don't think Uber has launched them in the United Kingdom yet although they may do soon. The main reason may be down to regulation.

I think one popular thing I have heard about Uber is it works in other countries for example I can use the same app in Singapore, Hong Kong, New York and Leeds which makes life feel much easier.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I wonder why shared taxis haven't taken off? They are popular in Belfast, though, and allegedly BlaBlaCar is popular on the continent.

Having looked at it in conjunction with someone who knows these things (a transport consultant and former bus company general manager) neither of us is convinced that there exists legal scope in the UK for a completely demand-responsive shared vehicle system in the manner of matatus/jitneys/songthaews and the likes. They either need to be taxis (where multiple people agree to share the vehicle but just split one fare) or DRT buses (in which case there have to be boundaries/routes/areas to which it is registered and restricted).

Edit: the above refers to local services - such things do exist for things like airport runs where the journey length is such that it is outside the scope of a local bus service.

That said, Uber might be able to get away with it by the passengers sharing the "metered" fare rather than a true per-person price.

You do in places (there are a couple of examples locally) get German-style Anruf-Sammeltaxi / Linientaxi services, but these are special-case registered local bus services operated using a taxi in areas of very low demand, and are in almost all legal senses buses operating a fixed or near-fixed route.

Neil
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

I wonder why shared taxis haven't taken off? They are popular in Belfast, though

Belfast is a special case where black cabs were used to substitute for buses in places buses couldn't safely operate.

and allegedly BlaBlaCar is popular on the continent.

Blablacar is in operation here, but I personally believe it is highly questionable in insurance terms, as the driver seems to profit from certain transactions rather than just sharing the cost. I think they get away with it by the maximum income from the share being the accepted HMRC 45p/mile, but I would be interested in if there has been any legal precedent with regard to whether it is "hire and reward" or "car sharing".

Neil

 

[telstarbox]

I've come across minicab drivers with shocking local knowledge - one went at least twice the distance he needed to after we checked he knew where he was going as we didn't know the location of the wedding we were going to (we asked when we rang as we caould have printed instructions out; and checked when he arrived). After some argument we paid half the amount on the meter in that instance but were rushing to be in the wedding in time.

Agreed - I rarely get taxis but whenever I've used a minicab in London I've had to direct the driver (even when the journey has been prebooked). In one case the driver managed to confuse East Croydon with New Addington, and in another the driver parked up on the tram-only section at East Croydon to let me out which resulted in an angry tram driver who couldn't get past...

 

[Busaholic]

Agreed - I rarely get taxis but whenever I've used a minicab in London I've had to direct the driver (even when the journey has been prebooked). In one case the driver managed to confuse East Croydon with New Addington, and in another the driver parked up on the tram-only section at East Croydon to let me out which resulted in an angry tram driver who couldn't get past...

Try not to get stuck on the Addington Hills on a Saturday night when your prebooked minicab fails to turn up, particularly if you are one male with three females (hasten to add we had had a meal in the Chinese at that spot). A spot apparently notorious for dogging, although I never saw any labradors; the ones we did see seemed to all be on heat though, male and female. P.S Mobile phone reception lousy too, but the passing police car did have a good laugh when we explained!

 

[Deerfold]

Try not to get stuck on the Addington Hills on a Saturday night when your prebooked minicab fails to turn up, particularly if you are one male with three females (hasten to add we had had a meal in the Chinese at that spot). A spot apparently notorious for dogging, although I never saw any labradors; the ones we did see seemed to all be on heat though, male and female. P.S Mobile phone reception lousy too, but the passing police car did have a good laugh when we explained!

Ah, you've brought back several memories of waiting for (usually pre-paid) minicabs back from gigs. Hanging around in the car park outside Holmfirth co-op, Huddersfield Football stadium and other lovely places.

 

[Mr Manager]

This is an interesting link regarding Uber. Arrests made ??

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-31942997

 

[telstarbox]

TfL have opened a consultation into Private Hire. Their proposals include:

Requiring private hire operators to “provide booking confirmation details to the passenger at least five minutes prior to the journey commencing”

Requiring operators “to ensure that private hire vehicles are not visibly shown to be available for immediate hire, whether physically (e.g. signage or otherwise on the street) or via an app, or other means.”

Requiring drivers to work for one company at a time only.

All of these would have a significant impact on Uber's operations. Uber appear to be worried as they have emailed all their customers asking them to sign a petition against TfL.

https://consultations.tfl.gov.uk/tph/private-hire-proposals/consult_view

 

[jon0844]

It's hardly surprising love Uber, but there's a reason we introduced lots of tight rules and laws over the years.

As long as they're made to play on a level playing field then it's fine.

 

[Puffing Devil]

This is a new, disruptive, business model.

The proposed legislation is like asking car owners to have a man with red flag walking in front of them.

It serves no purpose other than to protect the Black Cabs and some private hire operators. Please explain how the rules would benefit the consumer.