Ugliest units

[MCR247]

The 220/221 DEMUs are identical to the 222s except for the shape of the lights however I dont see how that can make a difference maybe its the livery.

No they are not. Virgin copyrighted the cab on the voyagers so no other train could look like them

 

[Crossforth]

No they are not. Virgin copyrighted the cab on the voyagers so no other train could look like them

Don't understand why as noone in their right mind would want to copy it

 

[starrymarkb]

No they are not. Virgin copyrighted the cab on the voyagers so no other train could look like them

I doubt its copyright as such, however it is possible to specify that a design which has your corporate styling, is altered for other customers. Similarly the South African Electrostars have a custom cab that is exclusive to Gautrain

 

[Death]

Personally speaking, I don't really mind units that i think "aesthetically unpleasing" to a certain degree...But that said, I have to say that I find the Class 380's and the 458's just unbearable, at least as far as personal taste goes! hock:

Mind ye though, it's all to do with personal opinion. I'm not keen on most Dessies for looks, but on the other hand I've always thought that there was something refreshingly "Grim" and "Northern" (Which - In my book - Are two of the highest compliments! ) about the Class 158's/159's.

Of course, I'm surprised to see that the HST and the APT have been forgotton in this thread. The HST looks timeless on it's own...And though the APT-E wasn't the best looking train about (Though it's performance more than made up for that!) the APT-P borrowed the good looks from the HST *and* gave itself a unique appearance in having the power cars in the centre of the rake!

 

[Drsatan]

The 411s in my opinion have always looked messy because of the exposed jumper cables on the cab ends, and the cabs are nowhere near as "rounded" as the 421s/423s/432s.

The 380s look hideous: the gangway does not suit the raked-back cab and WHY OH WHY does the bodyshell have to be excessively tapered???

The 456s have a certain charm when painted in NSE livery, but Southern's livery doesn't suit them at all.

The 460s look odd in my opinion - people claim the cab resembles Darth Vader's helmet but I don't see any resemblance!

The 334s/458s look messy - the two folding doors at the cab (sort of corridor connection) looks odd and the headlight arrangement needs to be revised.

 

[SouthEastern-465]

442s are the neater version without all those cables hanging out, and the clactons always look grimy.

As Bighat said you cant hold dirt against the trains looks, and the "Plumbing" hanging out did not affect there looks either and just to add aswell the Class 411s were bloody good units too Drsatan

Dont say were going to argue like on Facebook about why EPBs are better than Class 117s!

 

[Helvellyn]

All the original mark 3 derived multiple unit designs are terrible - understandable for a prototype maybe but unforgivable to put this sort of non-design into production. Examples of these offenders include the class 210 DEMUs, class 317/1 EMUs and class 455/8 EMUs. Thankfully it was improved for later builds of the aforementioned EMUs.

I'd agree that the Class 210, 317/1 and 455/8 units don't look good. Adding jumpers to the design for the 455s made it worse too! However, I'd say that with the 455/8s Southern's refurbishment has made them look worse, whilst the SWT refurbishment has made them look better - in terms of the livery now carried.

On the new generation stock Alstom seem to have done badly, with the 175s, 334s and 460s all looking pretty terrible. The 180s on the other hand look great, whilst I think the 458s would look better if they had a permanent corridor connection in place on the front end.

Linking in with another thread, it's a shame we never saw the Class 471 Networkers. That would have been a great design in my view.

The Wessex Electrics (Class 442) were fine units in NSE colours: -

 

[Drsatan]

However, I'd say that with the 455/8s Southern's refurbishment has made them look worse, whilst the SWT refurbishment has made them look better - in terms of the livery now carried.

To my mind Southern's livery suits the 455s well (although I don't like the alterations made to the corridor connector), while SWT's Metro livery is too overpowering. They looked better in NSE livery in my opinion; BR Blue/Grey never suited them.

 

[Voyager 2093]

No they are not. Virgin copyrighted the cab on the voyagers so no other train could look like them

No they did not the 222s have exactly the same cab as the 220/221

http://mark-herriott.fotopic.net/p2804066.html

 

[Juniper Driver]

Am I alone in seeing similarity between the 442s and 309s?

No.I got on both types.Never drove a 309 during training unfortunately.:?

Those were the days.

 

[MCR247]

No they did not the 222s have exactly the same cab as the 220/221

http://mark-herriott.fotopic.net/p2804066.html

The class 222 is 70% a new train including the cab.

Side on 222 cab: http://anoraksia.ukgeeks.co.uk/p31483837.html
Side on Voyager cab: http://anoraksia.ukgeeks.co.uk/p2123654.html
Can you not tell they are a completely different shape?

 

[Voyager 2093]

The class 222 is 70% a new train including the cab.

Side on 222 cab: http://anoraksia.ukgeeks.co.uk/p31483837.html
Side on Voyager cab: http://anoraksia.ukgeeks.co.uk/p2123654.html
Can you not tell they are a completely different shape?

Yes MCR247 anybody can tell the difference between the shape, all it is, is a different body shell for the 222, they have the same traction equipment, electrical equipment ect, they have the same cab apart from the 221s which in thier cab have the tilting mechanism and have a large logo stating Super Tilting Voyager.

Now apart from that the Trains are the same, hence the reason why 222s are also part of the Voyager Family, dispite having nicknames for the different sub-clases with the 222/0 being called Meridians and 222/1 being called Pioneers.

The only difference between the two trains on whole is the body shell and the lights.

 

[Crossforth]

Yes MCR247 anybody can tell the difference between the shape, all it is, is a different body shell for the 222, they have the same traction equipment, electrical equipment ect, they have the same cab apart from the 221s which in thier cab have the tilting mechanism and have a large logo stating Super Tilting Voyager.

Now apart from that the Trains are the same, hence the reason why 222s are also part of the Voyager Family, dispite having nicknames for the different sub-clases with the 222/0 being called Meridians and 222/1 being called Pioneers.

The only difference between the two trains on whole is the body shell and the lights.

I thought that the only difference between a 220 and 222 was the cab?

and livery of course

 

[Voyager 2093]

I thought that the only difference between a 220 and 222 was the cab?

and livery of course

Nope the cabs are complety the same, the only difference between them are the lights, body shell and Livery as you stated thats what I was trying to show MCR247.

 

[MCR247]

Yes MCR247 anybody can tell the difference between the shape, all it is, is a different body shell for the 222, they have the same traction equipment, electrical equipment ect, they have the same cab apart from the 221s which in thier cab have the tilting mechanism and have a large logo stating Super Tilting Voyager.

Now apart from that the Trains are the same, hence the reason why 222s are also part of the Voyager Family, dispite having nicknames for the different sub-clases with the 222/0 being called Meridians and 222/1 being called Pioneers.

The only difference between the two trains on whole is the body shell and the lights.

Ok, if the have the same electrical equipment why can't a 222 couple to a 220? Because the electrical equipment isn't compatible.

 

[starrymarkb]

I'd say Facelifted rather then new, a couple of changed mouldings (cab window and front panel) but otherwise the same

 

[Voyager 2093]

Thats one point apart from that they are the same train and thats just the coupler type.

 

[starrymarkb]

Ok, if the have the same electrical equipment why can't a 222 couple to a 220? Because the electrical equipment isn't compatible.

That might be software. For a while there were 377s with stickers advising that they couldn't be coupled to units with a lower software version.

Though Saying that didn't Virgin mod the 220/221 to multiwork with Pendos (as shown by testing last year)

 

[Crossforth]

Sre you sure that the body shell is different?

You can tell that the shape of the cabs are different externally but the body shells look identical

 

[starrymarkb]

Sre you sure that the body shell is different?

You can tell that the shape of the cabs are different externally but the body shells look identical

The general shape is identical, apart from minor changes to mouldings. Look at say a 2003 Ford Fiesta vs a 2006 Ford Fiesta - Same car, Same shape but tweaked mouldings. Or from a rail view look at the Turbostar Batches - they have been facelifted!

 

[Pumbaa]

That might be software. For a while there were 377s with stickers advising that they couldn't be coupled to units with a lower software version.

Though Saying that didn't Virgin mod the 220/221 to multiwork with Pendos (as shown by testing last year)

Mechanically workable only. Electrical connections are duff. Interestingly, the tests were done (with pictures that time of the Pendo hauling the Voyager) but repeated later in the year at night around the Manchester triangle with Voyager hauling the Pendo. Some basis of electrical compatibility was reported, but never looked into further. So there's hope still if they do it again! (I think that's the right way round, open to correction if its the opposite way to I described).

Yes Meridians are part of the Voyager family, however are suitably advanced that there is an 80% difference in them (almost there MCR247!) The biggest difference being the software and electrical systems. Meridians also have the updated Onix package that was fitted to Pendolinos - the Voyagers have the Onix package that was fitted to Alstoms Coradia family. Other differences include capability of SDO, improved window supports and smaller transforming units.

 

[Voyager 2093]

It like 168s and 170s, 168s are slightly faster, have better acceleration and thier body shell is made out of a lighter material that allows for faster construction.

However the 168/1 and 168/2 have the same appearance in terms of Body Shells as the 170s on a whole scale.

And you if you want to go into further detail the 168/1s and the 170/2s are identical.

But

 

[WillPS]

Most of the improvement between Voyagers and Meridians/Pioneers is internal. I don't think any of them are ugly, just insufficient in the Voyager's case.

 

[Helvellyn]

The jigs used to build the Voyagers were changed (or even new) for the Meridians. Another difference is that external doors were moved to nearer the vehicle end. Better use was also made of internal space, i.e. Virgin made every toilet a Universal one on their unist which takes up a lot of pace in the MS vehicles! They only needed to fit those to the driving vehicles. If they'd done things differently they could have had more luggage space and/or seating in the MS vehicles with better use made of the space at the toilet ends.

 

[starrymarkb]

Virgin did want 3 Classes (which are required under RVAR to have access to a disabled bog) - much like Railjets have Premium, First and Economy. The idea was abandoned at an early stage but it was too late to have a cull of Bogs

 

[Dai.]

I have a couple..

http://ukrailwaypics.fotopic.net/p40652059.html

317's

http://ukrailwaypics.fotopic.net/p31739008.html

319's



Personally I like the voyagers

Images ©UKRailwayPhotos

 

[class313]

class 376 for me, they just look odd, I hate the strip of metal round the headlight and the headboard holder sticking up, looks like they are putting up their middle finger.

 

[poshbakerloo]

I have a couple..

http://ukrailwaypics.fotopic.net/p40652059.html

317's

http://ukrailwaypics.fotopic.net/p31739008.html

319's



Personally I like the voyagers

Images ©UKRailwayPhotos

I dnt get why the 317s had the fronts made to look like that! Its awful! But the 319s looks fine the FCC livery!

 

[CheapAndNerdy]

I've always considered some of trains run by SWT to be lacking in the looks department. Wikipedia tells me they are the Class 458 Junipers. The angle of the front slope combined with the lack of features down the middle somehow manages to completely fail to please the eye.

 

[SouthEastern-465]

I have a couple..

http://ukrailwaypics.fotopic.net/p40652059.html

317's

http://ukrailwaypics.fotopic.net/p31739008.html

319's



Personally I like the voyagers

Images ©UKRailwayPhotos

I also personally like Class 220 and 221 "Voyagers" and I think there quite good looking if I must be honest and I also never thought anything bad of them either.