UK face coverings discussion

[185143]

This sounds illegal to me.

Can you get a photo of this shop? Also are you able to say where it is? (Some people may want to visit to check they are complying with the law)

I think that's because either the Government think that employers cannot legally force this upon someone at work, or because they think it would be unwise for them to do so. This does raise questions about whether teachers can be forced to, and whether employers could insist that employees produce proof of exemption (I think they can't)

My employer (in the education sector) does not sound keen on compulsory face coverings, and nor do any of the staff I've yet spoken to. I'll speak to more in the next couple of weeks and see if I can find anyone who thinks they should be compulsory, and see what they have to say. I think I may struggle to find anyone though....

I got a photo of the sign.

It's the little newsagents next to the cafe opposite Scarborough station.

 

[lkpridgeon]

My conclusion is that people who are exempt are entitled to not carry an exemption card, wear a lanyard or anything else, and are also entitled to wear a mask for a limited time as they deem fit, but I would instead recommend they do wear an exemption lanyard and do not attempt to wear a mask any of the time, thus minimising the possibilities of being on the receiving end of unpleasant communications or being wrongly deemed/assumed to be guilty of wrongdoing.

I agree with this as in my experience the card is next to useless and wearing one then taking it off people do indeed see as that you can wear one even if rather uncomfortably. The lanyard does help reduce unpleasant communications to an extent however it is not a panacea.

But most shops have installed perspex screens between staff and customer to reduce that infinitely?

The screens seem to be rather ineffectual as most transactions involve stepping to the side of the screen because you either can't hear the person or are unable to pass items through the gap as it's too small.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I got a photo of the sign.

It's the little newsagents next to the cafe opposite Scarborough station.

Newsagents (and takeaways) are notorious for making stuff up like that. Sits alongside "number of schoolchildren in the shop" rules

 

[trebor79]

I got a photo of the sign.

It's the little newsagents next to the cafe opposite Scarborough station.

Dreadful. So what if you're in the shop and a masked person then enters? Do you get turfed out?
This is what happens when non-medical people are delegated tomake public health decisions.

Well, they should know better and keep the social distance.

But it takes 2 to tango and most of the customers have ditched distancing since they were forced to wear magic masks.

 

[43066]

I got a photo of the sign.

It's the little newsagents next to the cafe opposite Scarborough station.

Disgraceful. I really hope this business goes to the wall.

 

[Domh245]

No, because we are not going for the same level of absolutism that the medical profession quite rightly requires.

Seeing as 'that level of absolutism' is the only thing shown to actually have a positive effect on reducing transmission when using masks, surely that is what we should be aiming for?

 

[yorkie]

I got a photo of the sign.

It's the little newsagents next to the cafe opposite Scarborough station.

Do you mean opposite the station entrance? I'm struggling to find it. Can anyone locate it on a map, and find the name of it?

 

[185143]

Do you mean opposite the station entrance? I'm struggling to find it. Can anyone locate it on a map, and find the name of it?

This one. It says "Card and Candy corner" under that Daily Mail branding.

 

[Islineclear3_1]

Shop staff aren’t required to wear masks. Customers should wear masks to prevent/protect shop staff from the virus.

Ah, but on the flip side - shop staff should wear masks to protect their customers from the virus

But most shops have installed perspex screens between staff and customer to reduce that infinitely?

Um, not really. Maybe at the till in the supermarket but not at self-service checkouts. And don't forget, staff are doing floor walks and stacking shelves. In most of the newsagents I have been in, there are no perspex screens

 

[island]

Newsagents (and takeaways) are notorious for making stuff up like that. Sits alongside "number of schoolchildren in the shop" rules

Number of schoolchildren in the shop rules were there to ensure the staff could keep an eye on a population which were considered likely to shoplift.

 

[Bayum]

But it takes 2 to tango and most of the customers have ditched distancing since they were forced to wear magic masks.

AgIn, it is up to the staff to ensure that there is social distancing. I agree wholeheartedly that masks seem to have caused the public to resume non social distancing normality - someone needs to police it.

 

[bramling]

Regarding the school masks, I've just had a look at the Facebook page of my local radio station, which is the natural habitat of the Karen. They asked whether their listeners supported masks in schools. I'd say it was 90% no, which is encouraging. There was still one on there who said they "didn't want the little ones to get sick and die", but they had that statement well and truly dissected by the other users.

Unfortunately my local Facebook is the opposite. The general theme is “it’s utterly vital my child wears a mask”.

 

[Huntergreed]

Unfortunately my local Facebook is the opposite. The general theme is “it’s utterly vital my child wears a mask”.

Mine is the same, 55% on a poll yesterday saying masks must be worn everywhere in a school, including classrooms.

Also the music school I worked at has now introduced a compulsory mask policy, which states that if someone isn’t wearing a mask we are to refuse to teach them. I’ve swiftly left my position at this place, as I won’t stand for exemptions, like myself, being excluded in such a way.

 

[trebor79]

But it takes 2 to tango and most of the customers have ditched distancing since they were forced to wear magic masks.

AgIn, it is up to the staff to ensure that there is social distancing. I agree wholeheartedly that masks seem to have caused the public to resume non social distancing normality - someone needs to police it.

Really? You think the Tesco shelf stackers should be "policing" customers and bawling at them if one happens to go within 2m of another? They tried that with the one way systems and stopped after 2 weeks and got rid of them entirely after a couple of months.
Or should they call the police and hand over the store CCTV system to them?
What's the penalty? How do you prove which party is at fault?

 

[adc82140]

Mine is the same, 55% on a poll yesterday saying masks must be worn everywhere in a school, including classrooms.

Also the music school I worked at has now introduced a compulsory mask policy, which states that if someone isn’t wearing a mask we are to refuse to teach them. I’ve swiftly left my position at this place, as I won’t stand for exemptions, like myself, being excluded in such a way.

They'll soon back down when they realise that playing the trumpet with a mask on doesn't quite have the same sound.

 

[Bantamzen]

AgIn, it is up to the staff to ensure that there is social distancing. I agree wholeheartedly that masks seem to have caused the public to resume non social distancing normality - someone needs to police it.

Really? You think the Tesco shelf stackers should be "policing" customers and bawling at them if one happens to go within 2m of another? They tried that with the one way systems and stopped after 2 weeks and got rid of them entirely after a couple of months.
Or should they call the police and hand over the store CCTV system to them?
What's the penalty? How do you prove which party is at fault?

Absolutely, it is not the job of regular store to police anything. They have regular jobs to do, and will likely not be trained or paid for the kind of conflicts that would cause.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Absolutely, it is not the job of regular store to police anything. They have regular jobs to do, and will likely not be trained or paid for the kind of conflicts that would cause.

The security guards at large supermarkets police all sorts of things - shoplifting, behaviour, appropriate dress[1] etc. It's only adding one more.

I'd agree regarding the non-security staff at smaller shops, though even smaller Tesco Express stores (though not the others for some reason) usually tend to have a security guard.

Security guards are paid for conflicts, that's precisely their job - to engage with people breaching company policy or breaking the law and to get them to stop doing so or to leave.

[1] I don't mean a suit, but try walking into a large Tesco in a seaside location with just swimming trunks on, you won't get far.

 

[Bantamzen]

The security guards at large supermarkets police all sorts of things - shoplifting, behaviour, appropriate dress[1] etc. It's only adding one more.

I'd agree regarding the non-security staff at smaller shops, though even smaller Tesco Express stores (though not the others for some reason) usually tend to have a security guard.

Security guards are paid for conflicts, that's precisely their job - to engage with people breaching company policy or breaking the law and to get them to stop doing so or to leave.

[1] I don't mean a suit, but try walking into a large Tesco in a seaside location with just swimming trunks on, you won't get far.

So how many security guards would you propose to manage social distancing at the larger stores. One per isle? Perhaps armies of security should taser every single person who dares to move within 2 metres for more than a couple of seconds. That'll teach them eh....?

</sarcasm>

Seriously, some people really, really need to get a grip!

 

[jtuk]

Took a flight to Prague last night. First time I've been in any position to need to wear any sort of face covering at all since requirements came in, thoughts:

- if, on a plane, they can mostly be avoided by simply drinking frequently, then what's the point
- could just be what I used but it would clearly do absolutely nothing to prevent any coronacold I had escaping, and almost certainly caused more harm to me through reasons debated ad nauseum already. Plus it made me unbelievably hot (see also drinking continually)
- Manchester Airport is the worst I've ever used at the best of times, but chucking an extra third on the advertised price of a beer is cheeky as anything, still, trading £1.50 for half an hour of no mask is fine with me
- Quickest taxi to runway ever

 

[jumble]

BBC news at 10 mentioned just now that the masks are compulsory for pupils and staff in some areas of secondary schools in local lockdown areas of England. In other areas it up to the school to decide.

Does anyone else think that this is to placate the teaching unions and does not have much medical benefit

 

[Huntergreed]

Does anyone else think that this is to placate the teaching unions and does not have much medical benefit

Of course it is, that and the screaming mask enthusiasts who refuse to send their children to school mask-less.

I am extremely angry at Sturgeon in Scotland for her stance on masks in schools (especially given I have to do a placement this year in one) and I am growing increasingly angry at the lack of a vocal political opposition to them.

 

[MikeWM]

Does anyone else think that this is to placate the teaching unions and does not have much medical benefit

It's an incredibly weak decision from an incredibly weak government.

With just a few days to go before schools restart, they are now expecting each of them to somehow make their own, informed, medical decision about whether to ban them, allow them, or mandate them. And then there is no time left for parents to exercise their choice based on the decided policy of the school and try to find an alternative that suits their personal views of masking children and/or the preferences of their children (either for or against).

It irritates those who think forcing a mask on a child is plain wrong (or even child abuse) and doesn't satisfy those who think we need to be wearing masks continually, everywhere, forever.

 

[Richard Scott]

Of course it is, that and the screaming mask enthusiasts who refuse to send their children to school mask-less.

I am extremely angry at Sturgeon in Scotland for her stance on masks in schools (especially given I have to do a placement this year in one) and I am growing increasingly angry at the lack of a vocal political opposition to them.

The question is how do we oppose it? Every time I've expressed my displeasure at all this to those in politics I get the same wishy washy response. That's the one thing that is consistent across the political parties!

 

[Islineclear3_1]

The question is how do we oppose it? Every time I've expressed my displeasure at all this to those in politics I get the same wishy washy response. That's the one thing that is consistent across the political parties!

Will teachers be mandated to wear face masks ?

I guess not...

If half the pupils turn up to school without a mask, will they be sent home? What happens if the parents are at work?

 

[Bletchleyite]

If half the pupils turn up to school without a mask, will they be sent home? What happens if the parents are at work?

Same thing as happens if the parents are at work when a pupil is sent home for another misbehaviour or indeed medical reasons, namely that they leave work and collect them, and if they don't the kid will go to Social Services.

 

[jtuk]

If half the pupils turn up to school without a mask, will they be sent home? What happens if the parents are at work?

New Zealand approach. Straight to gulag. Only way to be sure.

 

[RomeoCharlie71]

Same thing as happens if the parents are at work when a pupil is sent home for another misbehaviour or indeed medical reasons, namely that they leave work and collect them, and if they don't the kid will go to Social Services.

Is this factual or are you just making it up as you go along?

 

[Bletchleyite]

Is this factual or are you just making it up as you go along?

That's how a pupil being sent home is handled. There's an intermediate step of isolating them within the school if e.g. the parent could not be contacted, but an outright refusal to collect would be referred up.

I don't know if schools would adopt a policy of sending home for no mask. They may well instead decide to give masks to anyone who hasn't arrived with one, but if they then refuse to wear it they would have to take a sanction.

 

[43066]

Is this factual or are you just making it up as you go along?

It comes as no surprise that certain posters would like to see children referred to social services if they refuse to wear muzzles. The mind really does boggle.

 

[Bantamzen]

It comes as no surprise that certain posters would like to see children referred to social services if they refuse to wear muzzles. The mind really does boggle.

And talks about sanctions for kids, like kids are some rogue, authoritarian, nuclear nation! I'm just waiting for him to call for the UN / NATO to send troops in....