UK face coverings discussion

[Bletchleyite]

And talks about sanctions for kids, like kids are some rogue, authoritarian, nuclear nation! I'm just waiting for him to call for the UN / NATO to send troops in....

Schools are autocracies, and they do speak in those terms.

In most schools, you are sent home if you do not have correct uniform, or if this is not possible you are put in isolation. A mask is just a piece of uniform in schools where they are required.

 

[43066]

A mask is just a piece of uniform in schools where they are required.

Surely you can see how a mask is rather different to a piece of normal school uniform? Human beings interact through facial expressions, masks make this impossible (or at least much more difficult).

 

[Bantamzen]

Schools are autocracies, and they do speak in those terms.

In most schools, you are sent home if you do not have correct uniform, or if this is not possible you are put in isolation. A mask is just a piece of uniform in schools where they are required.

Well I'd suggest you'd better get onto Kim Jong-un to have him prepare the interment camps for the kids that will end up being on the wrong end your dream autocracy.

 

[Baxenden Bank]

It's an incredibly weak decision from an incredibly weak government.

With just a few days to go before schools restart, they are now expecting each of them to somehow make their own, informed, medical decision about whether to ban them, allow them, or mandate them. And then there is no time left for parents to exercise their choice based on the decided policy of the school and try to find an alternative that suits their personal views of masking children and/or the preferences of their children (either for or against).

It irritates those who think forcing a mask on a child is plain wrong (or even child abuse) and doesn't satisfy those who think we need to be wearing masks continually, everywhere, forever.

Easier and much, much quicker for everyone to just go along with it, innit! Follow thy leader, don't rock the boat, don't ask questions (especially awkward ones). No need for parental choice if all schools do the same thing. I wouldn't like to be the head of a school (or head of governors) where I took a different stance to the hysterical baying mob. Look at how much grief Sweden gets for it's (slightly) different policy.

Just wait until simple cloth coverings are 'proved' ineffective/insufficient, are banned, and everyone has to pay for full medical standard equipment.

 

[Islineclear3_1]

Same thing as happens if the parents are at work when a pupil is sent home for another misbehaviour or indeed medical reasons, namely that they leave work and collect them, and if they don't the kid will go to Social Services.

Yes but in the grand scheme, a tiny proportion of pupils misbehaving at schools up and down the country requiring parent to take them home is nothing compared to today's large numbers of "disobedient" children not wearing face masks. Is the school really going to ring up every parent? Are they really going to have the resources to do that? Or are teachers just going to shame and belittle little Johnny and send him to Coventry?

 

[Baxenden Bank]

Yes but in the grand scheme, a tiny proportion of pupils misbehaving at schools up and down the country requiring parent to take them home is nothing compared to today's large numbers of "disobedient" children not wearing face masks. Is the school really going to ring up every parent? Are they really going to have the resources to do that? Or are teachers just going to shame and belittle little Johnny and send him to Coventry?

Let's be clear. Is little Johnny going to be the odd one out for refusing to wear a face-covering, or the odd one out for wearing one?

As per other threads, perhaps the ones most at risk, and better still, those most in fear, should be the ones who are given the opportunity to go into isolation?

Does anyone have any feel for how willing school children will be to wear face-coverings - voluntarily or mandated?

I can't see a bus driver leaving kids behind, or throwing them off, for not having/wearing a face-covering. They get enough of a social-media mauling if little Johnny forgets his pass or doesn't have the fare money for the 20th time that term.

 

[bramling]

Really? You think the Tesco shelf stackers should be "policing" customers and bawling at them if one happens to go within 2m of another? They tried that with the one way systems and stopped after 2 weeks and got rid of them entirely after a couple of months.
Or should they call the police and hand over the store CCTV system to them?
What's the penalty? How do you prove which party is at fault?

I suspect supermarket staff, like many who have worked right through, have got to the point where they’re simply quietly getting on with it. No doubt they’re tired of working hard every day whilst seeing scenes of furloughers out on beaches or cycle trails, and just want to work with some element of normality.

That’s not to say people shouldn’t show some respect by giving them space, however, especially as this particular group have had it pretty bad through this, especially during the panic buying phase.

 

[yorksrob]

The news from France is concerning.

It seems that face coverings are now compulsory in large swathes of outdoors there.

 

[bramling]

The news from France is concerning.

It seems that face coverings are now compulsory in large swathes of outdoors there.

Knowing France one wonders how long that will last before patience runs out?!

 

[Mag_seven]

The news from France is concerning.

It seems that face coverings are now compulsory in large swathes of outdoors there.

What seems to be happening is that infection rates rise so the answer is to mandate even more mask wearing in other settings. Then when infection rates continue to rise even more mask wearing rules get introduced. And then of course infection rates still continue to rise......

 

[RomeoCharlie71]

What seems to be happening is that infection rates rise so the answer is to mandate even more mask wearing in other settings. Then when infection rates continue to rise even more mask wearing rules get introduced. And then of course infection rates still continue to rise......

Is this not basically what happened in England approx 4 weeks ago when the increase in cases in Manchester was noticed?

Oh lets make masks mandatory in cinemas, museums, places of worship and hope that drives down the transmission rate.

 

[big_rig]

What seems to be happening is that infection rates rise so the answer is to mandate even more mask wearing in other settings. Then when infection rates continue to rise even more mask wearing rules get introduced. And then of course infection rates still continue to rise......

Paris can join the club of 'peak mask' cities to keep an eye on now I guess, as from the sounds of it there is nowhere outside one's front door except for the odd park there you can be without one.

Brussels fits the last bit of your post as well - they have mandated them everywhere (except for offices) since the 12th August. A glance at their infection rate shows:

"In the period of 17 to 23 August, 916 new cases were detected in the capital region, putting well above the national average in a hike of 11% compared to the previous week."

It will be interesting to see how things unfold there over the next couple of weeks!

Edit: There is of course the example of Madrid too, who made masks mandatory at all times except when eating/drinking on 31 July. The Telegraph reports a lockdown there is on the cards after 15,000 infections in the last week.

 

[yorksrob]

Knowing France one wonders how long that will last before patience runs out?!

Indeed. Must make it difficult to nonchelantly puff on a Gauloise !

What seems to be happening is that infection rates rise so the answer is to mandate even more mask wearing in other settings. Then when infection rates continue to rise even more mask wearing rules get introduced. And then of course infection rates still continue to rise......

Yes, "It's not working - do more of it !"

 

[birchesgreen]

Amusing mask incident on one of my trains yesterday. Bloke walked up the platform to the train wearing his mask, sat down and then took his mask off. Eh?

 

[Mag_seven]

Amusing mask incident on one of my trains yesterday. Bloke walked up the platform to the train wearing his mask, sat down and then took his mask off. Eh?

I've found myself almost doing that - for some reason it seems instinctive like taking your coat off when you get indoors.

 

[DB]

Just had an email from Northern:

Heard about our exciting competition yet?
Now that the use of face coverings are compulsory when on board our trains and in our stations (exemptions apply), you might be thinking that style is out window… thankfully not.

We’ve asked talented northern tattoo artists Joe Ellis, Sway Tattooer & Eve Mansell to design us a selection of limited edition Northern face coverings to wear when you’re travelling with us.

For the chance of winning a selection of four face coverings, along with a weekend of free travel for you and three friends, here’s what you need to do:

1. Snap a photo of yourself with a face covering on Instagram
2. Tag @northernrailway with the hashtag #TravelSafely

There will be 30 winners selected and there’s no limit to the amount of times you can enter. Competition closes Tuesday 8 September.

Is that cringe-inducingly naff, or what?

That hashtag is ridiculous as well - perhaps I should email them and ask for their evidence that people wearing masks are travelling more 'safely'.

 

[43066]

Just had an email from Northern:


Is that cringe-inducingly naff, or what?

That hashtag is ridiculous as well - perhaps I should email them and ask for their evidence that people wearing masks are travelling more 'safely'.

Good grief. That has to be parody, surely?!

 

[DB]

Good grief. That has to be parody, surely?!

No, they really are serious:

Offers

Northern | Buy Cheap Train Tickets and Check Train Times

www.northernrailway.co.uk

Get your entry in now! OK, maybe not - I suspect that only a small number of people on here would be interested in the fantastic prizes on offer...

 

[43066]

No, they really are serious:

Maybe the department behind that is the same department as came up with the: “We are Northern, we are artists!/ we are heros!” livery which is about the most patronising, embarrassing thing I’ve ever seen written on the side of a train.

 

[DB]

Maybe the department behind that is the same department as came up with the: “We are Northern, we are artists!/ we are heros!” livery which is about the most patronising, embarrassing thing I’ve ever seen written on the side of a train.

Ah yes, those were bad. And they aggraveted it by sticking them on 158s, partly over the windows, then had to climb down and remove the bits over the windows when they got a load of complaints that people couldn't see out properly on the Settle & Carlisle!

 

[BJames]

Just had an email from Northern:


Is that cringe-inducingly naff, or what?

That hashtag is ridiculous as well - perhaps I should email them and ask for their evidence that people wearing masks are travelling more 'safely'.

I almost thought you had to be making this up until you posted the link

 

[jtuk]

I would fire a tweet at them saying nothing more than show the evidence, but I think they've probably got me blocked

 

[RomeoCharlie71]

It would appear Jenny Harries' stance on face coverings has slightly changed, as seen in today's video released by the PM. Skip to approx 8:50:

But I think the issue of face coverings is an important one, it has both the science element and a supportive element in the middle of what has been a very worrying period. So the evidence on face coverings is not very strong in either direction [...] but it can be very reassuring in those enclosed environments for children and for teachers as well to know that people are taking protections [...]

(my bold)

But yes it's very reassuring and yes it might make people feel safe, waffle waffle etc. Why don't we actually make people safer instead of this "feel safe" nonsense?

 

[DB]

It can equally be the opposite of reassuring, but that is rarely mentioned by politicians or the media!

 

[Huntergreed]

It would appear Jenny Harries' stance on face coverings has slightly changed, as seen in today's video released by the PM. Skip to approx 8:50:

(my bold)

But yes it's very reassuring and yes it might make people feel safe, waffle waffle etc. Why don't we actually make people safer instead of this "feel safe" nonsense?

Genuinely can’t describe how much it angers me that we’re forced to wear those horrible, uncomfortable things and the way those exempt are made to feel just to make the terrified minority feel “safe”.

I’ve quite frankly had enough of this pandering government and their pathetic overreaction to this pandemic.

 

[bramling]

It would appear Jenny Harries' stance on face coverings has slightly changed, as seen in today's video released by the PM. Skip to approx 8:50:

(my bold)

But yes it's very reassuring and yes it might make people feel safe, waffle waffle etc. Why don't we actually make people safer instead of this "feel safe" nonsense?

This is not the first time reassurance has come up.

Completely infuriates me, and further reinforces the notion that face coverings is about reassurance rather than anything else.

I'm sick of pandering to a subset of the population, and it's becoming increasingly obvious that a good amount of this is because some people want all this to last as long as possible in the hope that they can continue their furlough / working from home. That's utterly unacceptable.

Hopefully we will see more and more people choosing to ignore the face coverings requirements.

 

[trebor79]

I see on the BBC live rolling coverage earlier today (sorry I can't link) that the Netherlands has decided to scrap their mask mandate from Monday. Footfall in shops etc has been down by a third since it came in, and they've decided to trial a period without it to see what effect that has on transmission and footfall.
Maybe, just maybe the tide is starting to turn...

 

[furlong]

I see on the BBC live rolling coverage earlier today (sorry I can't link) that the Netherlands has decided to scrap their mask mandate from Monday. Footfall in shops etc has been down by a third since it came in, and they've decided to trial a period without it to see what effect that has on transmission and footfall.
Maybe, just maybe the tide is starting to turn...

See https://www.dutchnews.nl/news/2020/...dam-stop-requiring-face-masks-in-busy-places/
In summary, it was an experiment in parts of central Amsterdam and Rotterdam, always intended to be temporary and to end on 31st August. They will evaluate the data before deciding what to do next.

 

[Paul_10]

Genuinely can’t describe how much it angers me that we’re forced to wear those horrible, uncomfortable things and the way those exempt are made to feel just to make the terrified minority feel “safe”.

I’ve quite frankly had enough of this pandering government and their pathetic overreaction to this pandemic.

How is a face mask horrible and uncomfortable? Unless you have breathing difficulties(therefore you should not wear one) then they are not really any inconvience.

Admittedly I do find them slightly more uncomfortable with a growing beard but that can easily be solved by more shaving.

I will say one thing though, I'm certainly not one of those who won't prejudge or complain if somebody does not wear one, life is about choices and people should be allowed to make that choice. Unfortunately with how things developed, a person without a mask on will no doubt be judged especially if they are a teenager.

 

[Skimpot flyer]

Newsagents (and takeaways) are notorious for making stuff up like that. Sits alongside "number of schoolchildren in the shop" rules

Yet in other posts, you are a staunch defender of private businesses’ right to refuse entry !