UK face coverings discussion

[Mag_seven]

almost all of the studies I am aware of which review the effectiveness of masks are predicated (at least) on them being used properly and as a supplement, not an alternative, to physical distancing.

The WHO seem to take the opposite view:

Non-medical, fabric masks

are being used by many people in public areas, but there has been limited evidence on their effectiveness and WHO does not recommend their widespread use among the public for control of COVID-19. However, for areas of widespread transmission, with limited capacity for implementing control measures and especially in settings where physical distancing of at least 1 metre is not possible – such as on public transport, in shops or in other confined or crowded environments – WHO advises governments to encourage the general public to use non-medical fabric masks.

Coronavirus disease (COVID-19): Masks

www.who.int

 

[bramling]

That’s not the view of the people I know who wear one



From the context I’m assuming you didn’t intend the double negative and are saying you don’t prejudge. Good for you.

The small minded bigots who are judging (and in some cases bullying) those who aren’t wearing masks, who include some of our society’s most vulnerable members, should mind their own wretched business and keep their ignorant opinions to themselves.

Yes I’m utterly sick of some of the stuff to be found on social media.

There’s people who openly boast of who can make the most sarcastic comments about lack of mask, whilst others boast about how they sing at people including the words “dick head”. Quite frankly it’s a complete disgrace, though of course one wonders how much of this *actually* happens and how much is simply showing off on social media.

Personally I can’t claim to have experienced more than the odd dirty look. Certainly last night at Euston mask use was so low I’d say it was well under 50%.

I was talking to some BTP the other day. The ones I spoke to said they’re not interested in masks, indeed they’re pretty underwhelmed that it has been dumped on them. Their personal view was that they will only challenge someone if the person looks up to no good - and I got a demonstration of this when two shifty looking youths were clearly looking to find a way out of the station that didn’t involve having to show a ticket! They did comment however that there are a few officers who have heavily embraced the whole thing.

 

[island]

The WHO seem to take the opposite view:

Coronavirus disease (COVID-19): Masks

www.who.int

I’m talking about scientific studies, not politicially-influenced advice.

 

[43066]

Personally I can’t claim to have experienced more than the odd dirty look. Certainly last night at Euston mask use was so low I’d say it was well under 50%.

Yes likewise.

It especially sticks in the craw when you’re making your way to or from work, and get looks from working age people who are clearly “WFH”, or furloughed, and who are *choosing* to to be in London to go shopping, or to spend yet more of our taxes on discounted meals out.

 

[Skimpot flyer]

I refer you to Jenny Harries statement above (and to the fact that cases are steadily rising again, even though masks have been mandatory in many settings for some weeks now).

Let’s save that screenshot for posterity.
We are being mandated to wear face coverings, even though our own Deputy Chief Medical Officer admits that the evidence in their favour is not overwhelming, strong, or even limited. It’s weak and equally weak arguments against them are just as valid.
Perhaps we should all carry a comfort blanket and wear rosary beads?
People upthread have said the BBC reported that the World Health Organisation did a u-turn on facemasks after political pressure was applied. Am I alone in thinking that Jenny Harries has had it made clear that if she wants to remain in post, she should come out with this twaddle?

 

[VauxhallandI]

Yes likewise.

It especially sticks in the craw when you’re making your way to or from work, and get looks from working age people who are clearly “WFH”, or furloughed, and who are *choosing* to to be in London to go shopping, or to spend yet more of our taxes on discounted meals out.

What’s the attitude to people working from home?

 

[bramling]

View attachment 82889
Let’s save that screenshot for posterity.
We are being mandated to wear face coverings, even though our own Deputy Chief Medical Officer admits that the evidence in their favour is not overwhelming, strong, or even limited. It’s weak and equally weak arguments against them are just as valid.
Perhaps we should all carry a comfort blanket and wear rosary beads?
People upthread have said the BBC reported that the World Health Organisation did a u-turn on facemasks after political pressure was applied. Am I alone in thinking that Jenny Harries has had it made clear that if she wants to remain in post, she should come out with this twaddle?

It’s almost worth printing this out and carrying a stash around, to shove into the faces of those who try to shame people who aren’t wearing a mask.

What’s the attitude to people working from home?

I’m seeing a sense that there’s a correlation between people in the WFH group and wanting to see restrictions continue as long as possible, in order to prolong not having to travel to/from work for as long as possible.

I was round at a relative’s house last week having my hair cut. Her son, working from home, was there, along with a desk full of empty beer cans. Great example of the benefits of working from home - not!

 

[Yew]

That quote from Jenny Harries does seem like a little bit of a climb down, I wonder if we may be seeing yet another change in direction in the near future. If the Netherlands experiment proves ineffective, I wonder how many EU members will reconsider their mandating of masks.

I was round at a relative’s house last week having my hair cut. Her son, working from home, was there, along with a desk full of empty beer cans. Great example of the benefits of working from home - not!

I don't think too much can be drawn into that, I have a spare room, that is now an office. But for lots of people, the place that they work is the same as the place that they watch netflix, take zoom calls, etc.

 

[Scrotnig]

I’m seeing a sense that there’s a correlation between people in the WFH group and wanting to see restrictions continue as long as possible, in order to prolong not having to travel to/from work for as long as possible.

Just for the record, I'm currently working from home (and have been since early March now) and I'd like an immediate return to complete normality. If that includes travelling to the office every day in heavy traffic - good! I'd welcome it.

 

[trainophile]

When I worked in an open plan office there were several people who patently obviously didn't have enough to do. In my team there were two who could spin out a couple of hours work to last all day. Conversely some people had so much on their plate that they regularly worked unpaid overtime. We all had responsibility for our own customer base, the size of which fluctuated at random, hence the varying workloads. Anyway I would think the ones with very little to do must be thoroughly enjoying their new furloughed lifestyle, and no wonder they wish it to continue as long as possible.

 

[trebor79]

I travelled yesterday for several hours and found wearing even a single layer (although closely woven) cotton mask extremely uncomfortable. My face was constantly hot and sweaty and my reading glasses unusable as permanently steamed up, so I couldn’t read my book.

In my view this would be a "reasonable excuse" for removal of the mask. I'd be prepared to have that discussion were I challenged in those circumstances.

 

[bramling]

When I worked in an open plan office there were several people who patently obviously didn't have enough to do. In my team there were two who could spin out a couple of hours work to last all day. Conversely some people had so much on their plate that they regularly worked unpaid overtime. We all had responsibility for our own customer base, the size of which fluctuated at random, hence the varying workloads. Anyway I would think the ones with very little to do must be thoroughly enjoying their new furloughed lifestyle, and no wonder they wish it to continue as long as possible.

I think this hits the nail on the head. For *some* people this is all a godsend.

Certainly it’s very convenient for there to be a continued narrative that things like public transport are dangerous, masks being part of that.

We’re having similar with some of the shielding people. Now back with a “light workload”. It’s either safe or it’s not, and why on earth do they need a light workload then they’ve had half a year resting at home? Quite frankly some should simply be disposed off, however again it’s not easy to separate the decent from the deadwood.

 

[43066]

What’s the attitude to people working from home?

None (and for balance I do recognise that many of those furloughed would far rather be back at work).

But it would be nice if those who very conspicuously *aren’t* at work, and are choosing to swan around on the tube in shorts and flip flops, didn’t scowl at those people who aren’t choosing to be there (not that they should be scowling at anyone!).

We’re having similar with some of the shielding people. Now back with a “light workload”. FFS it’s either safe or it’s not, and why on earth do they need a light workload then they’ve had half a year resting at home? Quite frankly some should simply be disposed of, however again it’s not easy to separate the decent from the deadwood.

Odd. It sounds as though they’re being treated in the same way as those who have been on long term sick leave - ie a “phased return”.

 

[bramling]

Odd. It sounds as though they’re being treated in the same way as those who have been on long term sick leave - ie a “phased return”.

Yes I suspect that may be it. One way or other it’s not good enough, in fact it’s caused more problems as their shifts now can’t be covered on RDW, so there’s now less work being performed than if they weren’t in at all. Still, there may be a rude awakening, as a number of us that have “worked through” have carefully ensured we’re now on a lengthy period of annual leave!

 

[VauxhallandI]

None (and for balance I do recognise that many of those furloughed would far rather be back at work).

But it would be nice if those who very conspicuously *aren’t* at work, and are choosing to swan around on the tube in shorts and flip flops, didn’t scowl at those people who aren’t choosing to be there (not that they should be scowling at anyone!).




Odd. It sounds as though they’re being treated in the same way as those who have been on long term sick leave - ie a “phased return”.

If one is WFH then they won’t be there swanning around “aren’t at work” they will have done a full days work before they “swan” around in their free time.

It’s getting a bit like the “I’ve had it worse than you” Monty Python sketch. It’s the ones that have to be somewhere that get to not wear the masks? And the swanners abouters that have to.

 

[43066]

If one is WFH then they won’t be there swanning around “aren’t at work” they will have done a full days work before they “swan” around in their free time.

It’s getting a bit like the “I’ve had it worse than you” Monty Python sketch. It’s the ones that have to be somewhere that get to not wear the masks? And the swanners abouters that have to.

The people who are exempt get to not wear the masks. The swanners can at least choose not to be there if that bothers them .

The overall point I’m making is that people need to accept that, if they travel around on public transport, they’re going to encounter people who aren’t wearing masks, for a variety of reasons. Nobody should be scowling at anyone else, and people should be minding their own business!

 

[VauxhallandI]

The people who are exempt get to not wear the masks. The swanners can at least choose not to be there if that bothers them .

The overall point I’m making is that people need to accept that, if they travel around on public transport, they’re going to encounter people who aren’t wearing masks, for a variety of reasons. Nobody should be scowling at anyone else, and people should be minding their own business!

This is true

 

[Mag_seven]

OK I've just had to move some posts that were discussing Furlough to this thread:

Furloughing in the UK - what is the current situation?

Moderator note - posts #1-#4 originally in this thread: https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/face-coverings-to-become-mandatory-in-shops-in-england-includes-poll.206406/page-48#post-4683357 I think the removal of furlough in October will change a lot of people's attitudes. Do we know what...

www.railforums.co.uk

Can all future posts here be about face coverings - thanks.

 

[Reliablebeam]

I was just on a Thames clipper and on boarding it was announced that anyone not wearing a mask would have to produce an exemption card or an inhaler. I thought this was against the disability discrimination rules?

Edit: as it happens this doesn't seem to be enforced once aboard

 

[DB]

I was just on a Thames clipper and on boarding it was announced that anyone not wearing a mask would have to produce an exemption card or an inhaler. I thought this was against the disability discrimination rules?

Edit: as it happens this doesn't seem to be enforced once aboard

The government guidelines specifically state that no proof of exemption is required.

 

[adc82140]

What exactly is an exemption card? Where do you obtain such a card? These are the questions that need to be asked of these people. Some public transport workers need to start following the rules laid down by their employers. Why can they go rogue, where in any other industry they'd be hauled over the coals?

 

[Skimpot flyer]

What exactly is an exemption card? Where do you obtain such a card? These are the questions that need to be asked of these people. Some public transport workers need to start following the rules laid down by their employers. Why can they go rogue, where in any other industry they'd be hauled over the coals?

Along with ‘if you want to now forcibly remove me, how are you going to maintain social distancing whilst doing so?’

Anyone behaving like this with me would need to call the police. When they arrived, I would show them the webpage that specifically states that proof of exemption is not required

 

[PR1Berske]

I'll say this. I've just got on a train from Preston to Wigan. Universal mask wearing on platforms. Universal mask wearing on board. Universal mask wearing on arrival.

 

[AM9]

I'll say this. I've just got on a train from Preston to Wigan. Universal mask wearing on platforms. Universal mask wearing on board. Universal mask wearing on arrival.

Stop confusing the arguments here with actuality reports.

 

[island]

What exactly is an exemption card? Where do you obtain such a card? These are the questions that need to be asked of these people. Some public transport workers need to start following the rules laid down by their employers. Why can they go rogue, where in any other industry they'd be hauled over the coals?

They can be widely purchased online, printed at home, or posted to you by TfL.

That does not make them a requirement, but they are easy to obtain for those who wish to obtain one.

 

[Bantamzen]

They can be widely purchased online, printed at home, or posted to you by TfL.

That does not make them a requirement, but they are easy to obtain for those who wish to obtain one.

The government has made it clear that people with exemptions do not need to explain why, nor do they need to carry anything stating that they are exempt.

 

[adc82140]

They can be widely purchased online, printed at home, or posted to you by TfL.

That does not make them a requirement, but they are easy to obtain for those who wish to obtain one.

The fact that one is not required, anyone can print one off, and some exemptions are not formally diagnosed conditions makes them completely pointless and just a waste of paper. Effectively by having them on their website TFL are saying that they are unable to control their staff.

 

[island]

The government has made it clear that people with exemptions do not need to explain why, nor do they need to carry anything stating that they are exempt.

The fact that one is not required, anyone can print one off, and some exemptions are not formally diagnosed conditions makes them completely pointless and just a waste of paper. Effectively by having them on their website TFL are saying that they are unable to control their staff.

I am glad you agree with me.

 

[RomeoCharlie71]

Just seen this on Facebook:

I'm absolutely bloody fuming, my 69yr old ma has just tried to get on the 64a arriva bus to get home from picking up her tablets, the bus driver asked where her face mask was, to which me ma showed her lanyard n exemption pass and told him she had COPD, but he told her that that means nothing, so no mask no travel, me ma burst into tears and got off, feeling humiliated., I've sent arriva a message as I'm raging here, especially living so far away and hearing your ma crying, it's heartbreaking.

 

[greyman42]

As I, and others, have explained before, those who support face coverings were wearing them pre-mandate.

You really can't draw conclusions from "polling", because in honesty, who actually has the time to fill these polls out? (I assume you're referring to the likes of YouGov, newspaper sites, etc.)

Why call them "face coverings" when people don't use them to cover the face?