UK face coverings discussion

[DB]

How is a face mask horrible and uncomfortable? Unless you have breathing difficulties(therefore you should not wear one) then they are not really any inconvience.

Why do people in favour of masks so often claim that they are not horrible and uncomfortable and only a minor inconvenience? Is it not now obvious that many people do find them horrible and uncomfortable and do regard them as a sugnificant inconvenience?

If you are fine with them then fair enough, but please accept that many people really aren't fine with them at all.

 

[westv]

For me, the sight of a mask where someone's mouth should be is unpleasant.

 

[Scrotnig]

How is a face mask horrible and uncomfortable?

For many people, it absolutely is. It may not be for you.

 

[NorthOxonian]

For me, the sight of a mask where someone's mouth should be is unpleasant.

That's my problem as well - I find them absolutely dehumanising. When I see people wearing them outside, or in other contexts where they do next to nothing, it just makes me sad at this point. The very worst one is seeing children wear them, that genuinely makes me want to cry.

I don't find wearing one that bad - though they can be a little unpleasant, especially if they feel like they're going to slip off (I get very anxious about that - I have genuinely had nightmares about my mask falling off on a bus and getting harassed). It's the social consequences of it that worry me - especially considering some seem to want this to become the norm for ever. I can just about tolerate this for the moment, but the prospect of living the rest of our lives without smiles is a deeply upsetting one.

 

[Skimpot flyer]

That's my problem as well - I find them absolutely dehumanising. When I see people wearing them outside, or in other contexts where they do next to nothing, it just makes me sad at this point. The very worst one is seeing children wear them, that genuinely makes me want to cry.

I don't find wearing one that bad - though they can be a little unpleasant, especially if they feel like they're going to slip off (I get very anxious about that - I have genuinely had nightmares about my mask falling off on a bus and getting harassed). It's the social consequences of it that worry me - especially considering some seem to want this to become the norm for ever. I can just about tolerate this for the moment, but the prospect of living the rest of our lives without smiles is a deeply upsetting one.

Absolutely agree.
I saw a parent with a child who looked about 4 years old today, and the little girl was wearing one of those light-blue masks. Of course it looked ridiculously big on her tiny face, and she looked a bit bewildered too. A child of such tender years forcibly put in a state of confusion for what ought to be an exciting train journey (of at least 30 minutes to the first scheduled stop) is an abhorrent thing to witness.

 

[Huntergreed]

Absolutely agree.
I saw a parent with a child who looked about 4 years old today, and the little girl was wearing one of those light-blue masks. Of course it looked ridiculously big on her tiny face, and she looked a bit bewildered too. A child of such tender years forcibly put in a state of confusion for what ought to be an exciting train journey (of at least 30 minutes to the first scheduled stop) is an abhorrent thing to witness.

Horrible that 5 year old children in Scotland are legally required to wear a mask in shops or public transport (but funnily enough, when it comes to schools it's 12+, which angers me even more!!)

 

[Skimpot flyer]

Re: France and mandatory masks in all areas of Paris...
How is it that a country that banned the wearing of the niqab face-covering for religious reasons suddenly finds itself requiring those same individuals to wear a non-medical piece of cloth that also covers their face???

 

[Huntergreed]

Re: France and mandatory masks in all areas of Paris...
How is it that a country that banned the wearing of the niqab face-covering for religious reasons suddenly finds itself requiring those same individuals to wear a non-medical piece of cloth that also covers their face???

'Following the Science' to keep everyone 'safe' of course...

 

[NorthOxonian]

Horrible that 5 year old children in Scotland are legally required to wear a mask in shops or public transport (but funnily enough, when it comes to schools it's 12+, which angers me even more!!)

I wonder how many parents of 5 and 6 year olds will insist their kids are four...

And agree re schools, there's something genuinely chilling about kids not being able to smile at their mates in the corridor, and having to see masked crowds at school - especially for those entering S1. There might be marginal health benefits, but at what cost?

 

[RomeoCharlie71]

I wonder how many parents of 5 and 6 year olds will insist their kids are four...

"I'm 5 but when I go into the shop or on a bus I'm 4" ....

 

[BJames]

See https://www.dutchnews.nl/news/2020/...dam-stop-requiring-face-masks-in-busy-places/
In summary, it was an experiment in parts of central Amsterdam and Rotterdam, always intended to be temporary and to end on 31st August. They will evaluate the data before deciding what to do next.

Already some very interesting points. Especially this bit:

In Amsterdam, a group of protesters tried to overturn the face mask ruling in court but although the judge ruled that it was an infringement of basic rights, the temporary nature of the experiment meant that this did not merit legal action. However, some shops and analysts said that they were getting far less footfall, with more than 35% fewer visitors in areas with compulsory face masks, according to a study for the Parool.

Judge ruled that it was an infringement of basic rights and that the only reason this did not require legal action is because it was temporary. Could be interesting if the review determines that they need to be made mandatory for longer. I look forward to seeing the conclusion of their review. Also an interesting figure regarding footfall.

 

[43066]

How is a face mask horrible and uncomfortable? Unless you have breathing difficulties(therefore you should not wear one) then they are not really any inconvience.

Admittedly I do find them slightly more uncomfortable with a growing beard but that can easily be solved by more shaving.

That’s not the view of the people I know who wear one

I will say one thing though, I'm certainly not one of those who won't prejudge or complain if somebody does not wear one, life is about choices and people should be allowed to make that choice. Unfortunately with how things developed, a person without a mask on will no doubt be judged especially if they are a teenager.

From the context I’m assuming you didn’t intend the double negative and are saying you don’t prejudge. Good for you.

The small minded bigots who are judging (and in some cases bullying) those who aren’t wearing masks, who include some of our society’s most vulnerable members, should mind their own wretched business and keep their ignorant opinions to themselves.

 

[Bantamzen]

It would appear Jenny Harries' stance on face coverings has slightly changed, as seen in today's video released by the PM. Skip to approx 8:50:

(my bold)

But yes it's very reassuring and yes it might make people feel safe, waffle waffle etc. Why don't we actually make people safer instead of this "feel safe" nonsense?

And this is what some of us suspected all along, not science but to make some people feel safe.

Genuinely can’t describe how much it angers me that we’re forced to wear those horrible, uncomfortable things and the way those exempt are made to feel just to make the terrified minority feel “safe”.

I’ve quite frankly had enough of this pandering government and their pathetic overreaction to this pandemic.

Quite frankly I'm sick and tired of having to pander to the most neurotic people in this country. Don't go near people, don't talk to them, don't breath near them. Enough is enough.

How is a face mask horrible and uncomfortable? Unless you have breathing difficulties(therefore you should not wear one) then they are not really any inconvience.

Please tell me you are being ironic. Because wearing a mask is inconvenient. They are uncomfortable, they reduce our ability to breath fresh air, they reduce our ability to read people's facial expressions, they can even cause problems in communication. But most of all they have been mandated by governments around the world not on a scientific basis, but on a political one. They are mandated because governments think that they might make a difference, they are mandated because governments desperately need to be seen to be doing something. Think about that for a moment. If governments can so easily force people to partiality cover their faces for "the greater good", what else might some try in future?

 

[_toommm_]

Disappointed with the guard on the 06:45 LDS to MIA this morning. Asked a passenger as to why he was exempt from wearing a face covering, then stated the passenger had to have a sunflower lanyard to show this.

 

[Bantamzen]

Disappointed with the guard on the 06:45 LDS to MIA this morning. Asked a passenger as to why he was exempt from wearing a face covering, then stated the passenger had to have a sunflower lanyard to show this.

Personally I would have politely pointed out to the guard that a sunflower lanyard is not required, nor is the passenger required to explain why they are exempt. Its only when people like this are challenged that they will learn to deal with these situations responsibly. I know not everyone is comfortable doing things like this, so perhaps drop an email to TPE to ask them to remind their staff what they can, and cannot do?

 

[_toommm_]

Personally I would have politely pointed out to the guard that a sunflower lanyard is not required, nor is the passenger required to explain why they are exempt. Its only when people like this are challenged that they will learn to deal with these situations responsibly. I know not everyone is comfortable doing things like this, so perhaps drop an email to TPE to ask them to remind their staff what they can, and cannot do?

If the guard was challenging me, I’d absolutely say something; but as the guard was challenging a fellow passenger I wouldn’t want to put said passenger in an awkward position being stuck in the middle.

I’ll definitely email though. Certainly I’d never dream of asking someone to wear a face covering in my line of work!

 

[adc82140]

Would it really be that difficult for all the TOCs to issue their staff with a training bulletin to draw attention to this? We've had to do it at work (non rail). Email sent out. Read and understood acknowledgement returned. Took about 30 seconds.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Why do people in favour of masks so often claim that they are not horrible and uncomfortable and only a minor inconvenience? Is it not now obvious that many people do find them horrible and uncomfortable and do regard them as a sugnificant inconvenience?

If you are fine with them then fair enough, but please accept that many people really aren't fine with them at all.

Even though I'm in favour of them, I'm surprised anyone (even a surgeon who wears one daily) would not find one uncomfortable.

 

[_toommm_]

Would it really be that difficult for all the TOCs to issue their staff with a training bulletin to draw attention to this? We've had to do it at work (non rail). Email sent out. Read and understood acknowledgement returned. Took about 30 seconds.

Same with me (again non-rail). Read a post on Google+, took it in, acted on it. Really not that hard so I’m not sure why there’s so much disparity between staff members in the rail industry.

 

[trainophile]

I travelled yesterday for several hours and found wearing even a single layer (although closely woven) cotton mask extremely uncomfortable. My face was constantly hot and sweaty and my reading glasses unusable as permanently steamed up, so I couldn’t read my book.

I was seriously considering getting hold of a niqab - a very fine silk one would not cling to the chin like fitted ones do. Would look a bit weird with jeans but we’re all being forced to look weird anyway due to this ruling.

 

[MonsooN]

I'm not keen on wearing a mask and obviously wouldn't choose to under normal circumstances, but if wearing a mask for a short while while I'm in a shop helps prevent someone from catching this horrible virus, it's a price I'm happy to pay.

 

[Huntergreed]

I'm not keen on wearing a mask and obviously wouldn't choose to under normal circumstances, but if wearing a mask for a short while while I'm in a shop helps prevent someone from catching this horrible virus, it's a price I'm happy to pay.

Problem is there's no proof it does, and if it does it's likely to be by such a minimal amount. Equally as you're touching your face more and wearing a germ-ridden cloth over it, you could argue it actually increases transmission (which is what we've seen in Scotland, England, Spain, France when they mandated them, and cases continue to fall in Sweden, where they're not mandated anywhere)

 

[43066]

I'm not keen on wearing a mask and obviously wouldn't choose to under normal circumstances, but if wearing a mask for a short while while I'm in a shop helps prevent someone from catching this horrible virus, it's a price I'm happy to pay.

But it probably won’t.

In fact, in Europe, masks have been more prevalent than they are here, yet cases are now increasing rapidly (even “exponentially”) in France, for example. The response? Make masks mandatory outdoors.

As someone said upthread “it isn’t working, and is possibly even making things worse, but let’s do more of it!”.

 

[Bantamzen]

I'm not keen on wearing a mask and obviously wouldn't choose to under normal circumstances, but if wearing a mask for a short while while I'm in a shop helps prevent someone from catching this horrible virus, it's a price I'm happy to pay.

As the others have said, there is practically no evidence that you are helping. Indeed there are schools of thought that through improper use, masks might actually be causing more of a problem, not less.

 

[Richard Scott]

But it probably won’t.

In fact, in Europe, masks have been more prevalent than they are here, yet cases are now increasing rapidly (even “exponentially”) in France, for example. The response? Make masks mandatory outdoors.

As someone said upthread “it isn’t working, and is possibly even making things worse, but let’s do more of it!”.

It does seem like trying to tackle a house fire with a hose pipe, it's not going out so turn the tap more! You know it's not going to work but got to be seen to be doing something. May not even be that good an analogy as possibly the hosepipe will do something worthwhile, whether masks do is totally open to debate (in my opinion and from observations of how much people fiddle with them I don't for one minute think they make any positive difference. Other issue is people seem to feel safer with them so get closer to others).

 

[MonsooN]

It's all a matter of who you listen to or believe though. There have been several studies, including one in the Lancet, that suggests face masks can be incredibly effective at preventing the spread. I've just done a quick search on "Do masks prevent the spread of Covid 19" and every single result on the first page suggests that they do. I'm sure if you were so inclined, you could do a similar search with different wording and get the opposite result though. So far, all the evidence I've seen and heard (including from friends and neighbours in the medical profession) has said that wearing a mask can stop the spread and I will continue to do so until I'm convinced otherwise.

 

[43066]

It's all a matter of who you listen to or believe though. There have been several studies, including one in the Lancet, that suggests face masks can be incredibly effective at preventing the spread. I've just done a quick search on "Do masks prevent the spread of Covid 19" and every single result on the first page suggests that they do. I'm sure if you were so inclined, you could do a similar search with different wording and get the opposite result though. So far, all the evidence I've seen and heard (including from friends and neighbours in the medical profession) has said that wearing a mask can stop the spread and I will continue to do so until I'm convinced otherwise.

I refer you to Jenny Harries statement above (and to the fact that cases are steadily rising again, even though masks have been mandatory in many settings for some weeks now).

 

[Richard Scott]

It's all a matter of who you listen to or believe though. There have been several studies, including one in the Lancet, that suggests face masks can be incredibly effective at preventing the spread. I've just done a quick search on "Do masks prevent the spread of Covid 19" and every single result on the first page suggests that they do. I'm sure if you were so inclined, you could do a similar search with different wording and get the opposite result though. So far, all the evidence I've seen and heard (including from friends and neighbours in the medical profession) has said that wearing a mask can stop the spread and I will continue to do so until I'm convinced otherwise.

Maybe if they are worn properly, which they are not. People fiddle with them, shove them in their pockets, reuse them etc. All of this builds up pathogens and will allow for greater spread as the mask will be handled and then when the person touches a surface it'll spread. It's no good just looking at an ideal scenario, people don't behave like that.

 

[island]

I have no evidence beyond observations and anecdotes, but it seems to me that many members of the public are treating masks as a 100% effective Covid19 shield and abandoning any attempt at hand hygiene or physical distancing.

Whilst scientific study outcomes are mixed, almost all of the studies I am aware of which review the effectiveness of masks are predicated (at least) on them being used properly and as a supplement, not an alternative, to physical distancing.

At the moment, neither of those predicates are in place.

 

[Bantamzen]

It's all a matter of who you listen to or believe though. There have been several studies, including one in the Lancet, that suggests face masks can be incredibly effective at preventing the spread. I've just done a quick search on "Do masks prevent the spread of Covid 19" and every single result on the first page suggests that they do. I'm sure if you were so inclined, you could do a similar search with different wording and get the opposite result though. So far, all the evidence I've seen and heard (including from friends and neighbours in the medical profession) has said that wearing a mask can stop the spread and I will continue to do so until I'm convinced otherwise.

Sorry but "a quick search" does not equate to evidence. There has been a lot of discussion on this thread on the subject, including looking at the studies that seem to conclude that masks are effective. But if you dig a little deeper you'll find that most studies were extremely limited, and most in medical environments where many other mitigations exist, including how to correctly use them. But when all pulled together, as they have been, the conclusion seems to be that they might be effective, but equally that they may not be. What concerns me more is that incorrect use could be a more effective source of spread, so instead of people catching it from other people's coughs and sneezes (I am far from convinced that regular breathing and talking is anything like a major source), instead they collect the virus inside the mask, then transfer it to surfaces for other people to pick up.