UK face coverings discussion

[Darandio]

It would be interesting to know how many of the twitter warriors would actually say something in real life. I bet not very many.

Hardly any, maybe even none. I'm certain of it.

 

[LAX54]

The wife has an unseen medical condition for which she needs medication every day for life. She has a "medical exemption" certificate for free prescriptions.
She doesn't normally have breathing difficulties but has struggled to breathe on the 2 occasions we've done essential shops wearing masks.

I have advised her not to wear a face covering in future as she has evidence (if anyone needs it) of an "exemption" required under the mask rules.

She is reluctant not to wear one as she fears vigilante abuse and does not want to stigmatise herself by wearing a lanyard (a "Yellow Star" as she put it)

I despair at how society is treating those less fortunate than themselves.

There is this, and as far as I know official site, I know the Railways are supporting it: https://hiddendisabilitiesstore.com/hidden-disabilities-face-covering.html where you obtain an exemption card
The wesbite says:

"Wearing the Hidden Disabilities Sunflower discreetly indicates to people around you including staff, colleagues and health professionals that you need additional support, help or a little more time. Above all, it is used anywhere where people meet.

Since its launch in 2016, it has now been adopted globally by major airports and venues and in the UK, by many supermarkets, railway and coach stations, leisure facilities, the NHS, a number of police, fire and ambulance services, and an increasing number of small and large businesses and organisations. Find out where it is recognised near you using our Sunflower location map.

In 2016, the Hidden Disabilities Sunflower was designed and launched when London Gatwick Airport asked "How can we recognise that one of our passengers may have a non-obvious disability?". We created a simple sunflower design on a green background for a lanyard - a subtle but visible sign to enable airport staff to recognise that the wearer (or someone with them) may require some extra help, time, or assistance when moving through the airport.

The success of the Hidden Disabilities Sunflower and the positive response it has received has increased awareness of the challenges adults and children with hidden disabilities face. Hidden Disabilities Sunflower wearers now benefit more widely from help being offered to make their daily living a little easier."

 

[island]

I noticed in Glasgow Central the announcement goes something like:

'Please note face coverings should be worn in all station areas, this means no food or drink can be consumed in the station'

I was under the impression that food/drink was classed as a reasonable exemption from the mask rule (and it's one I've used many times today, you have no idea how long a water bottle can last if you try )

There is an unqualified exemption in Scotland for removing a face covering to eat or drink.

You would likely have committed a violation in England by doing what you described, as removing a face covering to eat or drink is limited to situations where it is reasonable to do so – and you would have an uphill battle arguing that it is reasonable to sip 5ml of water every 30 seconds

 

[Journeyman]

I don't quite get the view that a lanyard is a "Yellow Star". Would she also object to using a Blue Badge if she needed it?

For the umpteenth time, a blue badge goes on a car, not a person. It makes a big difference.

 

[adc82140]

A blue badge gives access to a dedicated facility. It's not there to keep ignoramuses at bay.

Do you think non wheelchair users should have to display a sign that says "I need a sh*t at short notice" in case anyone challenges them for using a disabled toilet?

 

[trebor79]

Just depressed myself by reading a few Facebook profiles of people who commented upon an article about a Chinese buffet reopening.
The people commenting negatively ("but people might breathe near the food!") had things on their Facebook pages like "yes I don't like wearing masks but we must get used to things bring different for a very long time as you never know if you're near someone vulnerable"

 

[DB]

Just depressed myself by reading a few Facebook profiles of people who commented upon an article about a Chinese buffet reopening.
The people commenting negatively ("but people might breathe near the food!") had things on their Facebook pages like "yes I don't like wearing masks but we must get used to things bring different for a very long time as you never know if you're near someone vulnerable"

What are the chances that these people constantly fiddle with their masks...

 

[trebor79]

What are the chances that these people constantly fiddle with their masks...

Don't get me started.
Every day there are new reports in the media about masks being mandated outside in parts of other countries. You can just tell that's what's coming next. I said to me neighbour today that if they bring that in I'll just break the law, I'm not going to pander to stupidity like that. Actually I'd comply by declaring myself exempt, and I have a sneaking suspicion that a fair number of those wanting them in shops under duress would do likewise. So maybe not a bad thing overall.
I also think we are being softened up for masks in schools...

When is some proper political or public opposition to this insanity going to emerge?

 

[RomeoCharlie71]

When is some proper political or public opposition to this insanity going to emerge?

Never, because then we'd be killing our granny. Or someone else's granny.

 

[PaulMc7]

As far as political or major public opposition goes especially in Scotland I doubt we will get any opposition whatsoever. I've always gone SNP in voting but when the other "credible" options are Labour or Tories then there's only going to be 1 outcome. A lot of people care so much about independence and overlook everything else. I feel like if there was a strong alternative that was pro-indy they'd cause the SNP bother easily. It's so rare for me to see a fellow SNP supporter online who can actually criticise the mistakes that they make

 

[Journeyman]

As far as political or major public opposition goes especially in Scotland I doubt we will get any opposition whatsoever. I've always gone SNP in voting but when the other "credible" options are Labour or Tories then there's only going to be 1 outcome. A lot of people care so much about independence and overlook everything else. I feel like if there was a strong alternative that was pro-indy they'd cause the SNP bother easily. It's so rare for me to see a fellow SNP supporter online who can actually criticise the mistakes that they make

This is what really bugs me, as someone who lives in Scotland and thinks independence would be a disaster. There's a conspiracy of silence around the SNP's blunders, and an attitude that says Sturgeon must be supported at all costs. It really does my head in, as the SNP currently has near-total support of half the electorate because of one single issue at the expense of everything else. The unionist parties are left scrabbling over the rest. The SNP hold unionists in absolute contempt because they don't need their votes, and it's disgusting stuff. They act like there's overwhelming majority support for independence, which is a very long way from the truth.

Hell mend the lot of them, they've failed Scotland appallingly badly.

 

[yorkie]

For the question of who you'd vote for, please use this thread: https://www.railforums.co.uk/thread...t-effectively-get-us-out-of-this-mess.206536/

Thanks

 

[bramling]

Don't get me started.
Every day there are new reports in the media about masks being mandated outside in parts of other countries. You can just tell that's what's coming next. I said to me neighbour today that if they bring that in I'll just break the law, I'm not going to pander to stupidity like that. Actually I'd comply by declaring myself exempt, and I have a sneaking suspicion that a fair number of those wanting them in shops under duress would do likewise. So maybe not a bad thing overall.
I also think we are being softened up for masks in schools...

When is some proper political or public opposition to this insanity going to emerge?

I’d certainly be up for some what might be termed “direct action” over masks in outdoor areas. They’re already approaching the limits of what I’m prepared to tolerate, and I say tolerate in a loose sense.

I think events may overtake though. I have a feeling we are heading for some societal unrest as it is, there’s a real undercurrent of nastiness building up now. Something to light the touch paper is all that’s needed.

 

[PaulMc7]

This is what really bugs me, as someone who lives in Scotland and thinks independence would be a disaster. There's a conspiracy of silence around the SNP's blunders, and an attitude that says Sturgeon must be supported at all costs. It really does my head in, as the SNP currently has near-total support of half the electorate because of one single issue at the expense of everything else. The unionist parties are left scrabbling over the rest. The SNP hold unionists in absolute contempt because they don't need their votes, and it's disgusting stuff. They act like there's overwhelming majority support for independence, which is a very long way from the truth.

Hell mend the lot of them, they've failed Scotland appallingly badly.

Some of the stuff since face coverings have come around has been absolutely mind numbing. Always targeted by fellow SNP voters when I've mentioned it on Twitter though

 

[LAX54]

For the umpteenth time, a blue badge goes on a car, not a person. It makes a big difference.

A Blue Badge is issued to a PERSON not a car, in fact you do not need to have a car to be entitled to a blue badge.

 

[Journeyman]

A Blue Badge is issued to a PERSON not a car, in fact you do not need to have a car to be entitled to a blue badge.

Yes, I know that. But a person doesn't wear a blue badge. Bletchleyite seems determined to brand disabled people and can't understand why it's potentially a problem, likening to blue badges. I was pointing out that blue badges are not designed to be worn. People with disabilities have the right to privacy and should not have to advertise their status to everyone. Hence something displayed on a car is very different to something displayed on themselves.

 

[LAX54]

Yes, I know that. But a person doesn't wear a blue badge. Bletchleyite seems determined to brand disabled people and can't understand why it's potentially a problem, likening to blue badges. I was pointing out that blue badges are not designed to be worn. People with disabilities have the right to privacy and should not have to advertise their status to everyone. Hence something displayed on a car is very different to something displayed on themselves.

Sorry, misunderstood, and yes I agree, no person should have to wear a label, but I think many are looking at this face covering, which Mr Hancock now says is the correct term, and not mask, as it gives the wrong impression as to what it does (!), as pointless, and would also rather avoid confrontation with anyone, so would rather wear a badge or similar.

 

[MikeWM]

Possibly worth pointing out that I've done 7 or 8 trips to the supermarket since this silly regulation came in, and I've had no issues whatever.

I've got a printed version of the government exemption card in my pocket, to produce if questioned. But I'm not going around openly wearing it.

I appreciate that, for various reasons, people are anxious about doing so. And you have my sympathy and solidarity - we should never have allowed people to be put in such a position. But, if you feel you can, do try - chances are high you'll be just fine.

 

[bramling]

Possibly worth pointing out that I've done 7 or 8 trips to the supermarket since this silly regulation came in, and I've had no issues whatever.

I've got a printed version of the government exemption card in my pocket, to produce if questioned. But I'm not going around openly wearing it.

I appreciate that, for various reasons, people are anxious about doing so. And you have my sympathy and solidarity - we should never have allowed people to be put in such a position. But, if you feel you can, do try - chances are high you'll be just fine.

It does seem to be smaller shops where there’s “no mask no entry” nonsense going on. I’m told there’s a few such places in my town.

I’d presume none of the big supermarkets would be silly enough to do something similar, as they know it would lead to bad publicity - which is a lot more likely to happen for a supermarket which is a place many need to go, as opposed to some gift shop or whatever.

I really object to the idea of having to wear some kind of label. To me it’s uncomfortably close to stars on doors, which was a means of singling people out seen in a rather unsavoury period of history, and something we certainly shouldn’t be seeking to even start down the road of repeating.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Do you think non wheelchair users should have to display a sign that says "I need a sh*t at short notice" in case anyone challenges them for using a disabled toilet?

No, but they might choose to carry a RADAR key to make the process of gaining access easier.

Another option may be a badge saying "I have a hidden disability" - you don't have to give gross details, but the RADAR key is probably most effective.

 

[adc82140]

Why should they have to display any badge? What business is it of anyone else's that they have a disability?

 

[Bletchleyite]

Why should they have to display any badge? What business is it of anyone else's that they have a disability?

It's an easy, smooth way to ensure they receive the special treatment to which they are entitled

 

[adc82140]

The radar key does that.

 

[island]

A blue badge gives access to a dedicated facility. It's not there to keep ignoramuses at bay.

Do you think non wheelchair users should have to display a sign that says "I need a sh*t at short notice" in case anyone challenges them for using a disabled toilet?

Some people do (I think it’s called a can’t wait card).

 

[adc82140]

I think that's to show people if there is no toilet available whatsoever and you want access to a staff one in a shop or something. I certainly isn't to show busybodies who are querying your use of a disabled toilet.

 

[westv]

Some people do (I think it’s called a can’t wait card).

I've heard there's a 6 month delay in getting one of those.

 

[Scrotnig]

Some people do (I think it’s called a can’t wait card).

Indeed, although that's because those people have a medical need for such a card. It certainly isn't designed to shut interfering busybodies up, which seems to be the current problem.

 

[43066]

Because there is more evidence of spread indoors. You don't accept the evidence, you've stated as much, but it exists.

Care to cite it?

Please do so without reference to studies that include medical mask wearing in clinical settings, and the usual references to behavioural studies etc.

Those of us who are anti mask have been asking over and over again for this evidence yet none has been produced.

 

[43066]

With regards the need for proof (whether in badge form, as a physical card, or in virtual form), some places do insist on it. For example, Go North East buses require some form of proof, you can't just say "I'm exempt". I wouldn't be surprised if TfL also have the discretion to go a bit further than the minimum legal requirements.

I strongly doubt that. It would be illegal under the equalities act in the case of those with disabilities, for a start.

I’m exempt. I’m certainly not going to be justifying myself or entering into discussions with bus drivers and security guards about the reasons why.

 

[adc82140]

What sort of proof are they looking for, as there is no "proof" available, apart from saying "I am exempt"