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UK General Election 2024: The Results & Aftermath

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nlogax

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I'm wondering too. He was clearly desperate to retain his seat..
I'm not sure that he'd want to run a party that increasingly resembles a bunch of rabid dogs wearing a trenchcoat. He retained his seat through campaigning on a very local basis for local issues..my guess is he knows the wider party is toast for a while and it'll be beyond even his talents to tame.
 
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nw1

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I'm not sure that he'd want to run a party that increasingly resembles a bunch of rabid dogs wearing a trenchcoat. He retained his seat through campaigning on a very local basis for local issues..my guess is he knows the wider party is toast for a while and it'll be beyond even his talents to tame.

The question is, of the remaining Tory MPs, how many are actually hard-right or are a majority relatively middle-of-the-road?

Certainly, from the hard-right the likes of Braverman, Patel, Jenrick, Badenoch and Francois have sadly hung on - but it would be interesting to see an analysis of the make up of the remaining members of the parliamentary Tory party.
 

eoff

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The question is, of the remaining Tory MPs, how many are actually hard-right or are a majority relatively middle-of-the-road?

Certainly, from the hard-right the likes of Braverman, Patel, Jenrick, Badenoch and Francois have sadly hung on - but it would be interesting to see an analysis of the make up of the remaining members of the parliamentary Tory party.
Interesting question. I suppose we started from a basis when people had left as they were not aligned with Boris.
Then we have a recent exodous as noted by this Telegraph story (which the payawll is not stopping me read today)...

All the Tory MPs who stood down at the general election​

 

JamesT

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Basically the opposite to my own view; I prefer open immigration plus financial incentives to encourage a lower number of children (two). However, I don't believe that benefits for third, or subsequent, children who have already been conceived should be scrapped, at any time between now and their 18th birthday - I want to make that absolutely clear.
The two child limit on child benefit was introduced in 2017. The question now being raised is whether to remove that cap and return to child benefit being paid for every child. The cap was introduced such that it only applies to children born since it was introduced.
So as you agree with incentives for smaller families, you would retain the cap?
 

Howardh

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The question is, of the remaining Tory MPs, how many are actually hard-right or are a majority relatively middle-of-the-road?
Think many were "forced" to be hard-right (hard-brexit/anti-immigration etc) to be given a seat in 2019. Be interesting how many of the new intake are far more moderate or decide that moderation is the best way to tackle Labour/Reform?
 

nw1

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The two child limit on child benefit was introduced in 2017. The question now being raised is whether to remove that cap and return to child benefit being paid for every child. The cap was introduced such that it only applies to children born since it was introduced.
So as you agree with incentives for smaller families, you would retain the cap?

I would actually restore benefit for all children who were born before it was introduced, but not for those who were conceived after it was introduced and whose parents knowingly had children while the cap was in place.

Think many were "forced" to be hard-right (hard-brexit/anti-immigration etc) to be given a seat in 2019. Be interesting how many of the new intake are far more moderate or decide that moderation is the best way to tackle Labour/Reform?

That's what I'm taking into account. I'm not automatically assuming "2019 Tory MP" equals "hard right" (Theresa May, Robert Buckland, Tobias Ellwood, and others, are examples of 2019 Tory MPs I'd consider middle-of-the-road; even people like Penny Mordaunt, while a Brexiter she is more socially liberal on other issues). I'm giving all 2019, and current, Tory MPs the benefit of the doubt and accept that they have had to toe the party line. My question is, what are the intrinsic beliefs of the remaining pool of Tory MPs? If they would outrightly, and unambiguously, reject any form of alliance with Farage and Reform at any time, and don't support the "war on woke", then I'm prepared to give them some leeway.
 
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Stephen42

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@Magdalia, that’s a great post.

Just picking up on this bit. This level of detail is (currently) a step too far for polling surveys. The exit poll covers 133 polling stations that are located in constituencies that are usually fairly marginal and typical of wider voting patterns. They use the same polling stations each time to gain further consistency. The outcome of the surveys at those places is then modelled to reflect the whole nation’s voting. By it’s nature, this won’t be able to pick up very local issues, unless one of the 133 happens to be in a constituency with those local issues. Hence missing the independents. It will also have a tendency to under or over estimate seat gains for smaller parties simply through statistical variaton.

Nevertheless it is still a very large and expensive piece of market research, albeit not as large as the biggest market research conducted in this country twice a year (the National Passenger Survey for Transport Focus).


This sky news article explains more of it (article too large and full of adverts to enable much of a quote)

It will always be difficult to handle independents in exit polls or during the campaign polling. Out of 650 seats around 10 had significant independent impacts which is a small proportion. There is a risk that targeting resources at judging those impacts takes away from looking at the national picture which can have very substantial shifts in seats won. The exit poll was within 11 seats for each party including very close to real SNP figure.

I suspect the number crunchers would have liked an opportunity to present the uncertainty visually rather than having Prof John Curtice caution about it without anyone giving that much attention. The MRP polls (Multi-level Regression and Post-stratification - which models how different types of people vote then look at each constituency based on the type of people in it) show how uncertainties vary dramatically by party. Taking the YouGov one Reform was between 0 and 14 seats, SNP between 8 and 34 seats where as the Lib Dems was a 30 seat range. Being able to present a range after the single point estimates early in the night would have made what unfolded over the rest of the night rather less surprising.
 

JamesT

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I would actually restore it for all children who were born before it was introduced, but not for those who were conceived after it was introduced.
Sorry, I’m not following. No children born before the cap lost benefit.
 

Tester

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I would actually restore it for all children who were born before it was introduced, but not for those who were conceived after it was introduced.
Then you will be being tougher than the current situation.

Are you aware of the 'rape clause'? If not prepare to be horrified.
 

nw1

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Sorry, I’m not following. No children born before the cap lost benefit.

Ah ok, that's fine. In which case I would just leave it as it is.

I realise my views will not be to everyone's taste and I freely declare and admit bias here, in that I don't have children and have never had a strong desire to do so, while I have personal reasons to believe in liberal immigration rules. Hence my position that encouraging less children is a better way to prevent population growth than hardline restrictions on immigration.


Are you aware of the 'rape clause'? If not prepare to be horrified.

I'm not, no; I hope it isn't what I think it is.
 
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JonathanH

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Greens capturing random seats like Waveney is interesting too.
What is the background to the Greens being able to get enough interest in Waveney Valley and North Herefordshire to take those seats. If it can happen in these two, then what is the secret to getting it to happen elsewhere.

At some point, the Labour Party is going to need to embrace a much more green agenda to protect its vote on the left.
 
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Tester

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Ah ok, that's fine. In which case I would just leave it as it is.

I realise my views will not be to everyone's taste and I freely declare and admit bias here, in that I don't have children and have never had a strong desire to do so, while I have personal reasons to believe in liberal immigration rules - so my view is "two is plenty enough" from the point of view of preventing excessive population growth.



I'm not, no; I hope it isn't what I think it is.
Each to their own, but my recommendation would be to run a mile from any endorsement of benefit capping.

The whole point of benefits is to meet a perceived need - why punish children?
 

nw1

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Each to their own, but my recommendation would be to run a mile from any endorsement of benefit capping.

The whole point of benefits is to meet a perceived need - why punish children?

The parents can consciously decide to have a maximum of two children, with the knowledge that the cap is in place.

It's not ideal, no - but I'd prefer it to hardline restrictions on immigration, and presumably we do have to do something about population growth for a variety of reasons.

But it's not something I have a really, really strong belief about. It's more a case of answering the question "if it's a given that we have to control population growth, which is least bad, out of benefit caps and hardline immigration restrictions from EU countries?"
 

Howardh

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Final result finally in, and as expected; LD's win Inverness region. Wayy!!
 

takno

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The parents can consciously decide to have a maximum of two children, with the knowledge that the cap is in place.

It's not ideal, no - but I'd prefer it to hardline restrictions on immigration, and presumably we do have to do something about population growth for a variety of reasons.

But it's not something I have a really, really strong belief about. It's more a case of answering the question "which is least bad, out of benefit caps and hardline immigration restrictions from EU countries?"
The parents may be able to make a conscious decision, barring of course accidents. They may of course make this decision in an environment where they have well-paid jobs and can easily afford a third child. Jobs don't last forever of course, and sometimes one of the parents leaves or dies.

The point of benefits is to provide a safety net and attempt to prevent destitution when the unexpected happens. As a civilised society, we do this for both adults and children. When we put arbitrary restrictions on this to punish the "immoral" decisions of parents in the past, we are arbitrarily and heavily punishing the weakest adults in our society, and more importantly we are punishing and destroying the life chances of children who never asked to exist.

Please reconsider this.
 

brad465

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This year seven seats (pending the last seat vote tally) were won with fewer than 100 votes, with Hendon the smallest at just 15 votes. 3 of them were Labour wins, 3 Tory and 1 Reform. I wouldn't be surprised if these are seats where voter ID really made the difference in the final result:


How much does my vote matter?

Turns out, quite a lot. In this election, seven seats were won by fewer than 100 votes.

That's up from just one seat in 2019 - when Sinn Fein’s Michelle Gildernew won Fermanagh and South Tyrone by 57 votes.

But there have been smaller margins. In 1886, Conservative John Edmund Wentworth Addison drew with the Liberal candidate in Ashton-under-Lyne. He became an MP when the local mayor cast the deciding vote.

Rules have changed since then, and no constituency came as close as that in 2024. But some candidates got in by the skin of their teeth.

It was a tense night for the candidates in Hendon, the closest constituency of the 2024 election.

Labour candidate David Pinto-Duschinsky had tried - and failed - to win the seat before. But this time he squeezed in with just 15 more votes than his closest rival.

After a recount, he won with 15,855 votes. Ameet Jogia of the Conservatives had 15,840.
 

ReeceD1993

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We must be getting laughed at as a nation if we can't have all seats declared by the same day, there cant be any other country that takes well over a day to declare a result like what is happening in a seat in Scotland.
 

Tester

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We must be getting laughed at as a nation if we can't have all seats declared by the same day, there cant be any other country that takes well over a day to declare a result like what is happening in a seat in Scotland.
If you do a little research, you may find that actually there are such countries, and they are not outliers!
 

SteveHFC

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We must be getting laughed at as a nation if we can't have all seats declared by the same day, there cant be any other country that takes well over a day to declare a result like what is happening in a seat in Scotland.
It's quite common for one or two results to take a lot longer. In some countries (I don't have any examples to hand right now) it can take several days for the final results to be declared.
 

Darandio

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We must be getting laughed at as a nation if we can't have all seats declared by the same day, there cant be any other country that takes well over a day to declare a result like what is happening in a seat in Scotland.

We're probably one of the most efficient. We also get the loser out and the winner in place immediately. Compare that to other countries where declarations can take days and the process of changing office is practically glacial in comparison.
 

Energy

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We're probably one of the most efficient. We also get the loser out and the winner in place immediately. Compare that to other countries where declarations can take days and the process of changing office is practically glacial in comparison.
An advantage of FPTP is being quite quick to count. Single transferable vote would take longer.
 

Purple Train

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On travel - not explicitly by train - it's not as impressive as you might think in terms of travelling from one place to another impressively-distant place without passing through Conservative constituencies. Land's End is inaccessible, because South West Devon and Torridge and Tavistock are both Conservative, and you can't really penetrate Devon, because of the band of Torridge and Tavistock, Central Devon, and Exmouth and East Exeter. Scotland is also out of bounds because of the three holds in Borders constituencies: Dumfries and Galloway, Dumfriesshire, Clydesdale, and Tweeddale, and Berwickshire, Roxburgh and Selkirk.

However, looking away from the inaccessible extremities - and being as circuitous as I want - there are some really astonishing routes that are completely Conservative-free. It's possible to go from Barnstaple to the Isle of Sheppey, from Brighton to Berwick, from Great Yarmouth into London - OK, that last one is probably a bit too circuitous (you have to go round and enter London from the west), but the point stands: there is no real "blue wall" except for the ring round from South Shropshire to Brigg and Immingham. For someone who was astonished when Labour gained even Rushcliffe (on one of the smaller swings of the night, as it turned out), it's been really quite something. It's even possible to go from Felixstowe to Wells-next-the-Sea along the coast without encountering a single Conservative!

I think, if anything, it proves how comparatively random the swings were: a huge, huge swing in Cannock Chase, for instance, but a swing of 0.3% from Conservative to Labour in Keighley.
 

Donny Dave

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And the other good point about FPTP is that days (possibly weeks) isn't wasted while the winning party tries to get a coalition together in order to govern.
 

Howardh

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We must be getting laughed at as a nation if we can't have all seats declared by the same day, there cant be any other country that takes well over a day to declare a result like what is happening in a seat in Scotland.
USA??
 

takno

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And the other good point about FPTP is that days (possibly weeks) isn't wasted while the winning party tries to get a coalition together in order to govern.
Arguably that just means the winning party rushes ahead with something they lack the experience to really understand the consequences of. Taking a few weeks to build a broader consensus might be time very well spent.
 

HSTEd

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And the other good point about FPTP is that days (possibly weeks) isn't wasted while the winning party tries to get a coalition together in order to govern.
A few days out of a few years is hardly a major problem though is it?

They could just shorten the recesses to make up lost time.
 

Bald Rick

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I'm wondering too. Hunt was clearly desperate to retain his seat. The most likely reason for that is ambition to lead the Conservative party. His record is mixed. He was Health Secretary for a long time, so bears considerable responsibility for the state it is in now. The beginning of his period as Chancellor of the Exchequer I thought was impressive, but he seems to have got sidelined as the election approached. For a serving Chancellor of the Exchequer to be so invisible during an election campaign was highly unusual.

I gather he was very visible in his constituency. I suspect the reason he wished to retain his seat is because, like most MPs, he wants to serve his constituents and the country. Of the remnant Parliamentary Conservative party, I’d rate him as possibly the very best and most experienced of them (in an admittedly weak field).
 

Gooner18

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First 1st post the post nonsense needs to go. The results make it look like Labour had a massive majority when it real terms they done incredibly bad ( especially when you look at how much of a mess the conservatives are in )
 

Bald Rick

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I‘ve just watched the few hours of BBC coverage I missed due to going to bed.

Liz Truss’ behaviour was appalling. Late to the count. Then walked out of the interview with Ros Atkins.

One of the worst (former) MPs I had the (dis)pleasure to meet.

Good riddance.
 
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