UK government's infrastructure spending

[The Ham]

Kater this morning the full details will be availble, however at the moment the anouncment currently includes £50million on the redevelopment of the railway station at Gatwick Airport:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-25201064

Included in the new NIP being announced on Wednesday are:

- a further £50m for a redevelopment of the railway station at Gatwick Airport
- a government guarantee to support finance for the development of a new nuclear power station at Wylfa, north Wales
- confirmation that a UK guarantee has now been agreed for the £1bn Northern Line extension to Battersea in London
- funding for improvements to the A50 around Uttoxeter, in Staffordshire, to start no later than 2015-16
- the target for the sale of corporate and financial assets will be doubled from £10bn to £20bn between 2014 and 2020, including the government's shareholding in Eurostar.

Last month, Eurostar posted a rise in revenues and passenger numbers compared with last summer.

 

[PhilipW]

What are they planning to do at Gatwick, given that they have just spent a lot building a new platform. I was not aware that there were any further plans in the offing.

I gather that much of the new £50 million is coming from Pension Funds. I hope it is real improvements, not just extra shops that may give them a quick return.

 

[joeykins82]

Knowing how government works they're probably "announcing" the £50m of improvements due to take place but referring to the already committed and under construction new platform.

 

[RichardN]

We know that this comes from work done by the Airports Commission.

This from their short - medium term proposals from stakeholders summary document.

Remodelling of Gatwick Airport Station:
This proposes improvements to the station, with a particular view to improving
accessibility for passengers with luggage.

Enhancement of Gatwick Express:
This would lead to the reintroduction of the “dedicated” Gatwick Express
service (without the onward journey to Brighton) and the provision of more
suitable rolling stock.

Other improvements to existing road and rail networks to improve access to
Gatwick:
A range of proposals were submitted, including:
• Additional platform at Redhill to support more services to Reading
• Incremental Brighton Main Line capacity enhancements
• Old Oak Common interchange for linking Gatwick to HS2
• Increased Lower Thames Crossing capacity
• Direct rail services between Gatwick and other London and South East
airports

 

[PhilipW]

One improvement that I always thought needed to be done was to install both 'Up' and 'Down' escalators on all the platforms not just some. Previously all platforms had 'Up' escalators but only some had 'Down'.

Perhaps this is being been done in the improvements underway, I don't know.

 

[G_A_C_C_C]

Enhancement of Gatwick Express:
This would lead to the reintroduction of the “dedicated” Gatwick Express
service (without the onward journey to Brighton) and the provision of more
suitable rolling stock.

Someone tell Doncaster to stop ripping the 460s apart....they're needed again...

 

[RichardN]

I had a look around the airport commission's site and I couldn't find any more detail on the Gatwick station proposals.

The current platform 7 expansion is more about removing the need for the expresses to cross the throat and is not specifically aimed at improving access for passengers with luggage, given platform 5/6 is worse than 1/2 in this respect.

 

[PhilipW]

The current platform 7 expansion is more about removing the need for the expresses to cross the throat and is not specifically aimed at improving access for passengers with luggage, given platform 5/6 is worse than 1/2 in this respect.

I hope both Platform 5 and 6 have 'Up' and 'Down' escalators else I think Gatwick Express passengers are not going to be too happy.

 

[RichardN]

http://www.nationalrail.co.uk/SME/html/NRE_GTW/plan.html

Stairs and lifts only to 5/6. Of course, they may be planning to put in escalators, but 5 and 6 are nowhere near as wide as 1 and 2. I think that they've left some room to make platform 5/6 wider in future.

 

[WatcherZero]

This is indeed seperate to the £53m existing Gatwick improvements. The Government made the allocation after a personal request by the head of the Airports Commission in a letter asking for rail links to be improved.

They havent got any particular project in mind for the £50m yet but mooted projects for the funds are acceleration of the Network Rail Brighton Mainline feasability study, including airport station in the trial of Smart Ticketing and improved Motorway access.

 

[PhilipW]

This is indeed seperate to the £53m existing Gatwick improvements. The Government made the allocation after a personal request by the head of the Airports Commission in a letter asking for rail links to be improved.

They havent got any particular project in mind for the £50m yet but mooted projects for the funds are acceleration of the Network Rail Brighton Mainline feasability study, including airport station in the trial of Smart Ticketing and improved Motorway access.

Unfortunately this all seems rather waffly. Sounds good though so I suppose that's why they announced it even if we won't see any difference for ages.

As for being listed under the heading of 'Rail Improvements' .... I don't think so.

 

[alwaystouchout]

How do they plan to 'link' Gatwick to HS2 at OOC?

Is that a euphemistic way of saying via tube from Victoria? Or via Guildford and Reading?

 

[MidlandMainlie]

How do they plan to 'link' Gatwick to HS2 at OOC?

Is that a euphemistic way of saying via tube from Victoria? Or via Guildford and Reading?

West London Line?

 

[YorkshireBear]

https://www.gov.uk/government/uploa.../263159/national_infrastructure_plan_2013.pdf

I cannot copy what is contained in the link as it is far too large.

Go to page 105 Annex A all schemes are mentioned. Nothing new at all under the rail section but some of you may still find it interesting.

 

[alwaystouchout]

West London Line?

Extension of Milton Keynes - East Croydon service then?

 

[cle]

Would £50m be enough to build some sort of dive-under south of Balham and associated junctions to allow fasts from East Croydon onto the slow lines before Balham?

I understood the P7 work at Gatwick to be underway, and the Redhill platform to be almost definite.

What the aim of the Brighton feasibility study? I thought beyond a new tunnel there wasn't much to be done with it, and it was full.
Could some incremental duplication be done at certain stations of stretches, even where the tunnels and cuttings preclude full four-tracking south of Three Bridges?

I wish they'd let go of the Gatwick Express, such as it is. Or at least stop all at EC and CJ. Complete waste.

 

[hwl]

https://www.gov.uk/government/uploa.../263159/national_infrastructure_plan_2013.pdf

I cannot copy what is contained in the link as it is far too large.

Go to page 105 Annex A all schemes are mentioned. Nothing new at all under the rail section but some of you may still find it interesting.

Given that nothing is new, some of the completion dates look a bit copy n paste from old sources too

For example MML electrification complete by 2018 but lots of other sources suggest dragging into CP6 i.e. beyond 2019?

 

[swt_passenger]

The government's text regarding Gatwick, from the link above, is:

...taking forward measures proposed by the Airports Commission by introducing a package of surface-access improvements, including making available a further £50 million for a full redevelopment of the railway station at Gatwick Airport, subject to satisfactory commercial negotiation with the airport

That could possibly mean a massive rebuild of the whole area above the platforms, while leaving the platforms and track layout as they are to be soon, i.e. including P7.

I really do think that suggestions that it means track alterations remote from Gatwick is going off at 'a bit of a tangent'...

--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Given that nothing is new, some of the completion dates look a bit copy n paste from old sources too

I think it isn't intended to be a mechanism for announcing new work. This is a sort of annual 'progress report', on the country's ongoing infrastructure projects. We had a similar discussion when it was published last time.

The autumn statement tomorrow (or whenever it is) will be the means by which anything brand new is announced, if my theory is correct...

 

[sarahj]

http://www.nationalrail.co.uk/SME/html/NRE_GTW/plan.html

Stairs and lifts only to 5/6. Of course, they may be planning to put in escalators, but 5 and 6 are nowhere near as wide as 1 and 2. I think that they've left some room to make platform 5/6 wider in future.

Platform 5 and 6 now have both down and up escalators. The downs come from the main station building, the up ones head to the bridge that takes you into check in for the south terminal. They are a bit bizzare as they look to be running slow, but when you step on them they speed up. There are also now two lifts. Problem at the mo is folks coming of down trains alighting from the rear coaches, the first thing they see is the stairs and struggle up them. I'm forever pointing folks to the lifts and escalators further down.

Mind, TBH the amount of folks getting on the escalators with heavy luggage and falling backwards is getting scary. The accident rate at gatwick is very high. We have tried signs, but short of getting someone whoose job it is to stop folks using them (and thats a job that would get you shouted at), we are at a loss.

 

[Stats]

It's a shame the additional money for Gatwick couldn't have come with the current work so that they could have widened Platform 5/6. Currently there's a massive gap between the tracks for platform 6 and the tracks for the new platform which in between sits the supports for the overpasses. The money could have enable the overpasses to be rebuilt removing the supports between platforms 6 and 7. This in turn would enable badly needed widening of platforms 5/6. Currently platforms 5/6 can barely squeeze in one escalator in it's width leading to massive congestion on the arrival of a Gatwick Express train. It can take a good 2-3 minutes to leave the platform.

And for those that say dedicated airport express trains from Gatwick are a waste of capacity are living in the past. I travel on them every day and they are often full. Compare with the peak hour Gatwick Express services from Brighton which have plenty of spare seats.

 

[IKBrunel]

Platform 5 and 6 now have both down and up escalators. The downs come from the main station building, the up ones head to the bridge that takes you into check in for the south terminal. They are a bit bizzare as they look to be running slow, but when you step on them they speed up. There are also now two lifts. Problem at the mo is folks coming of down trains alighting from the rear coaches, the first thing they see is the stairs and struggle up them. I'm forever pointing folks to the lifts and escalators further down.

Mind, TBH the amount of folks getting on the escalators with heavy luggage and falling backwards is getting scary. The accident rate at gatwick is very high. We have tried signs, but short of getting someone whoose job it is to stop folks using them (and thats a job that would get you shouted at), we are at a loss.

The escalators between rail station & terminal at Brussels airport have tubular bollards 2m before the bottom, in the shape of inverted U, I'd always thought it was to stop people trying to get on escalator with airport trolleys but it might be for this reason to discourage people with large suitcases.

 

[WatcherZero]

What the aim of the Brighton feasibility study? I thought beyond a new tunnel there wasn't much to be done with it, and it was full.
Could some incremental duplication be done at certain stations of stretches, even where the tunnels and cuttings preclude full four-tracking south of Three Bridges?

Brighton Mainline 2 (BML2).

Website around the concept here:
http://www.bml2.co.uk/

 

[NickBucks]

Will probably tie in nicely with the Davies report into London airport expansion. Two runways at Gatwick will mean enhanced rail facilities ?

 

[Stats]

Gatwick welcomes funding into new station

http://www.mediacentre.gatwickairpo...edevelopment-of-Gatwick-Rail-Station-87e.aspx

London Gatwick welcomes Government funding for the redevelopment of Gatwick Rail Station

4 December 2013

London Gatwick today welcomes the Government’s announcement that it will contribute £50m of funding to kick-start the redevelopment of Gatwick’s rail station – The Gatwick Gateway.

As passenger numbers at Gatwick continue to grow, with new airlines flying to more destinations, the redevelopment will be vital in ensuring a world-class passenger experience both now and in the future. The airport’s analysis with Network Rail shows that a station with this number of passengers requires a concourse at least double the size of the existing facilities just to meet the current demand.

The National Infrastructure Plan also outlined a number of further measures for surface access at Gatwick, including accelerating a Network Rail study into the Brighton Mainline, incorporating the Gatwick to London route on a planned trial of smart ticketing and including access to Gatwick in the Highways Agency study on local motorways.

Commenting on today’s announcement, London Gatwick’s Chief Executive Stewart Wingate, said:

“We are pleased that the Airports Commission has taken on board our recommendations on how to ensure growth at our airport in the short and medium term and maintain the UK’s position as one of the best connected countries in the world.

“This new funding is a welcome and positive first step toward delivering the new Gatwick Gateway rail station. We have worked well with Network Rail on our current rail improvement project and are looking forward to working with them, the Treasury and the Department for Transport to leverage this initial investment.

“Gatwick currently has the highest percentage of passengers accessing the airport by rail of any UK airport and as we continue to grow the number of global routes served by legacy, charter and low cost airlines, the package of measures announced today will help us deliver a world-class passenger experience for Britons and visitors alike.”

--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

The escalators between rail station & terminal at Brussels airport have tubular bollards 2m before the bottom, in the shape of inverted U, I'd always thought it was to stop people trying to get on escalator with airport trolleys but it might be for this reason to discourage people with large suitcases.

Nexus have recently installed bollards at the base of the escalator from the Metro concourse to Newcastle Central Station for this reason.

https://twitter.com/My_Metro/status/405663252886994944/photo/1/large

 

[Class377/5]

I wonder if a rebuilt would introduce travelators which would be much better for those with heavy luggage.

What the aim of the Brighton feasibility study? I thought beyond a new tunnel there wasn't much to be done with it, and it was full.
Could some incremental duplication be done at certain stations of stretches, even where the tunnels and cuttings preclude full four-tracking south of Three Bridges?

Brighton Mainline 2 (BML2).

Website around the concept here:
http://www.bml2.co.uk/

Confusion comes from watcher missing the 2 off his earlier post which completely changes the context of his posts.

 

[Bald Rick]

What the aim of the Brighton feasibility study? I thought beyond a new tunnel there wasn't much to be done with it, and it was full.
Could some incremental duplication be done at certain stations of stretches, even where the tunnels and cuttings preclude full four-tracking south of Three Bridges?

I wish they'd let go of the Gatwick Express, such as it is. Or at least stop all at EC and CJ. Complete waste.

Feasibility study is to look at unlocking E Croydon / Windmill Bridge Jn (BML constraint #1), and a handful of junctions further south. No new tunnels, or even 4 tracking, as it doesn't look like it's needed. Very early stages though.

 

[WatcherZero]

So to reemphasise the point is not an additional station improvement program but improvements in access to the station made up of inclusion in smart ticketing trial, road improvements and existing NR feasability study.

(And note Gatwick Airport press release didnt have the '2' either)
Should also point out that while the Government is accelerating this new study into several options for addressing Brighton Main Line capacity constraints (including Sussex local plans identified Capacity constrain #1), the reopening lewes-Uckfield study carried out in 2008 concluded a BCR of only 0.6-0.8.

Also interestingly Norman Baker campaigned against this in Government as it would negatively affect his constituency, now hes out in a reshuffle the Governments announcing funding? Me thinks the blockage was removed on this particular rail issue.

 

[Bald Rick]

So to reemphasise the point is not an additional station improvement program but improvements in access to the station made up of inclusion in smart ticketing trial, road improvements and existing NR feasability study.

(And note Gatwick Airport press release didnt have the '2' either)
Should also point out that while the Government is accelerating this new study into several options for addressing Brighton Main Line capacity constraints (including Sussex local plans identified Capacity constrain #1), the reopening lewes-Uckfield study carried out in 2008 concluded a BCR of only 0.6-0.8.

Also interestingly Norman Baker campaigned against this in Government as it would negatively affect his constituency, now hes out in a reshuffle the Governments announcing funding? Me thinks the blockage was removed on this particular rail issue.

I shouldn't read too much into the reshuffle being a precursor to this announcement.

AIUI this £50m is a Governement pledge towards the full cost of the redevelopment of the passenger facilities at Gatwick Station. The feasibility into capacity improvement on the line itself is funded separately and is in very early stages.

 

[cle]

I did think of BML2 but dismissed it as stupidity. I'm all for linking Lewes and Uckfield, but the proposals north into London were ludicrous.

How many paths might be unlocked by clearing out Windmill Junction? Or would it just be reliability? And are new platforms planned for East Croydon too?

 

[edwin_m]

http://www.nationalrail.co.uk/SME/html/NRE_GTW/plan.html

Stairs and lifts only to 5/6. Of course, they may be planning to put in escalators, but 5 and 6 are nowhere near as wide as 1 and 2. I think that they've left some room to make platform 5/6 wider in future.

With the current concern about people taking heavy bags on escalators, they might choose to add more lifts instead.