UK's highest heritage railway line speed

[Fen Enthusiast]

I'm curious to know what heritage railways have the highest line speeds and which railway or railways are essentially the fastest in the UK.

 

[Mcr Warrior]

Thought 25 mph was the max. permissible. When a HST set visited the Mid Norfolk in May 2011, that was all that it was allowed to run at, if I rightly recall.

 

[hexagon789]

AFAIK it's 25mph for passenger services, higher speeds are only for demonstration runs or testing on lines where higher speeds are permitted.

 

[ANDREW_D_WEBB]

Great Central is cleared for 60, although not sure if this is for passenger service or only testing.

Many preserved lines don’t want to go any faster as 25mph means that the average customer gets ‘more’ of a journey.

Coincidentally this month’s Rail Express has an editorial pondering whether preserved lines should have higher speeds to allow passengers to experience diesel locos in their full glory.

 

[Flying Phil]

A part of the GCR is cleared for up to 75mph for diesel testing I believe and the TPO set does demonstrate mail drops at up to 50mph. However for all passenger carrying trains and freight trains, the limit is 25mph - as with all other Heritage Railways. It is checked and, in these days of phone GPS/speedometers/social media, drivers are very careful.

 

[Ken H]

Are preserved railways not run under light railway orders? That allows simpler signalling (no distants???) But that comes with a 25mph limit.
Have I got that right?

 

[hexagon789]

Are preserved railways not run under light railway orders? That allows simpler signalling (no distants???) But that comes with a 25mph limit.
Have I got that right?

Not since 1992 I understand, being superceded by Transport Works Orders under the Transport and Works Act 1992. Furthernore, the Light Railways Act of 1896 did not specify a 25mph limit.

A 25mph limit was specified in relation to Light Railways under the 1868 Regulation of Railways Act, but any Light Railways opened under the 1896 legislation were not restricted to a specific maximum speed.

The Heart of Wales is operated under a Light Railway Order of the 1896 Act and it has a linespeed of 55-60mph.

 

[robert thomas]

Not since 1992 I understand, being superceded by Transport Works Orders under the Transport and Works Act 1992. Furthernore, the Light Railways Act of 1896 did not specify a 25mph limit.

A 25mph limit was specified in relation to Light Railways under the 1868 Regulation of Railways Act, but any Light Railways opened under the 1896 legislation were not restricted to a specific maximum speed.

The Heart of Wales is operated under a Light Railway Order of the 1896 Act and it has a linespeed of 55-60mph.

When I drafted the Abergwili & Llanpumpsaint Light Railway Order 1977(The Gwili Railway) I specified 25 mph or such other speed as the Minister of Transport may from time to time allow thus giving a degree of flexibility if required in future.

 

[nferguso]

ROGS determines derogations for operation of heritage railways at 25mph maximum, that is what sets the maximum speed for passenger trains. Anything concerning light railway orders is of historical interest only.

There is nothing to stop a heritage line running faster than 25 mph but then a whole load of main line requirements kick-in, such as OTMR, door locking etc. Add to that higher standards for training and general operation and you will see why 25 mph is the de facto maximum.

If heritage lines want to operate above 25 mph for testing or demonstration, permission from the ORR can be obtained but this tends to be for specific conditions and dates while there will be additional and very specific conditions imposed. It's not easy to obtain authorisation.

 

[notadriver]

Trams go faster - surely that’s a starting point.

 

[L+Y]

Here's a thought: if mk1s are increasingly removed from main line charter operators, does that create a pool of mk1s for the preservation sector that are already equipped with the necessaries for higher speed running?

 

[Robert Ambler]

Here's a thought: if mk1s are increasingly removed from main line charter operators, does that create a pool of mk1s for the preservation sector that are already equipped with the necessaries for higher speed running?

No.

The regulations are quite clear that the maximum permitted speed for heritage railways is 25mph and clearly define what a heritage railway is. For speeds above 25mph then there are many additional requirements including automatic train protection (mostly TPWS on Network Rail, Tripcocks on LUL) and passenger vehicles must be of monocoque construction with central door locking amongst a host of other requirements. Most heritage railways could simply not meet those requirements let alone afford them and it certainly would not be cost effective for them.

Mk1s can only operate on non heritage railways at speeds above 25mph because of a derogation which also includes certain mitigations (door stewards and/or secondary door locks, lower shelf brackets on the couplings to prevent overiding etc). As mentioned in another thread that derogation ends shortly and may not be renewed.

 

[GWVillager]

I think it worth noting that whilst 25mph restrictions may be the official, trains on heritage railways (particularly the longer ones) do regularly travel somewhat faster in passenger service. I was once the only passenger in a Class 114 (I think, may have been another similar DMU), so the driver invited me into the cab and lo and behold reaching 35mph was not uncommon. He explained that the restriction is only approximate or something along those lines and it is therefore permissible to exceed it if not significantly. If anyone knows anything more about this then that may help answer the question of the thread title.

 

[peteb]

It's interesting to time trains on preserved lines. Almost all I have travelled on this year have recorded 30s for a quarter mile, that's 30mph. Some even 28s. But often this is compensated for by very strict adherence to pws and temporary speed restrictions so the point to point times invariably match or even exceed those on the timetables. It seems that owing to the paranoia of the H&S brigade no logs of such journeys can be reported, even though a steam loco driver and fireman are reliant on speedos with +/- 15% accuracy and has anyone tried to drive/fire a loco with a GPS in their hand, that's if it can get a signal!

 

[43096]

It's interesting to time trains on preserved lines. Almost all I have travelled on this year have recorded 30s for a quarter mile, that's 30mph. Some even 28s. But often this is compensated for by very strict adherence to pws and temporary speed restrictions so the point to point times invariably match or even exceed those on the timetables. It seems that owing to the paranoia of the H&S brigade no logs of such journeys can be reported, even though a steam loco driver and fireman are reliant on speedos with +/- 15% accuracy and has anyone tried to drive/fire a loco with a GPS in their hand, that's if it can get a signal!

The only journeys I've done on preserved lines this year have been on stock that is OTMR fitted - not much likelihood of exceeding 25mph in that situation.

 

[Cowley]

It feels like we’re skating a bit of a line here and it could potentially cause issues.

Probably best to draw it to a close and walk away (no faster than 25mph obviously).

Thanks everyone.

 

[renegademaster]

Apart from the bakerloo line

 

[75A]

The Great Central.

 

[david l]

East Lancs Railway have sections passed for 60 mph for testing (with approval from ORR), and was used in Oct/Nov for testing with 153317.

 

[Flying Claret]

East Lancs Railway have sections passed for 60 mph for testing (with approval from ORR), and was used in Oct/Nov for testing with 153317.

Any idea which sections? I presume between Rawtenstall & Bury which is pretty much dead-Straight...

 

[david l]

Any idea which sections? I presume between Rawtenstall & Bury which is pretty much dead-Straight...

Bury to Heywood from the M66 bridge towards Heywood for approx. 2 miles, also have Bury-Ramsbottom section approved in certain areas.

 

[D6130]

ISTR that when the first section of the Mid-Hants Railway (Watercress Line) reopened in 1977(?), the inspecting officer, Major Peter Olver, passed the line for a maximum speed of 40 mph/65 kmh under certain circumstances. I'm open to correction on that and it may no longer apply. (Full disclosure: I am a life member of the Mid-Hants Railway Preservation Society).

 

[notadriver]

West highland line has a speed limit of 70 mph approaching Fort William.

 

[Thornaby 37]

The Great Central.

Only under certain circumstances
When it is open to the public, the TPO mail train can run at 35 mph with the caveat that there are no passenger carrying trains nearby
Commercial testing of rolling stock at higher speeds [I think it's up to 60 mph] can only take place on a specific stretch of track on days when the railway is closed to the public

 

[Dave S 56F]

Does the severn valley railway have a above speed of 25mph light railway speed between Hampton Lode and Bridgnorth up Eardington Bank?
(I don't think the west Highland line to Mallaig would count as its N.R.)

 

[Iskra]

West highland line has a speed limit of 70 mph approaching Fort William.

Not a heritage railway

 

[Harvester]

The Great Central.

Isn’t this only in one direction (Up)? and used only for testing!

 

[Cowley]

Isn’t this only in one direction (Up)? and used only for testing!

I’ve merged the two threads now as quite a bit of this was discussed recently. @Flying Phil helpfully explains things in #5 above.

As an aside though, can people avoid mentioning individual occasions when they think they’ve experienced trains running at over 25mph please.

Thanks

 

[steamybrian]

in the film "Titfield Thunderbolt" the heritage train being assessed by the Minister of Transport Inspector exceeded 25 mph but the average speed was 24 mph which he accepted and the LRO was granted.

 

[Flying Claret]

Bury to Heywood from the M66 bridge towards Heywood for approx. 2 miles, also have Bury-Ramsbottom section approved in certain areas.

Thanks