Ups and Downs.

[SwindonPkwy]

On any particular route or diagram, what are the rules that govern whether it is an 'Up' or 'Down' service?

 

[Dreadnought]

Up normally means travelling towards London, with Down direction being travelling away from London.

 

[Yew]

What about lines that go through London? Or not to London at all ?

 

[hello]

gatwick to reading. up gatwick to redhill, down redhill to shalford jct, up shalford jct to guilford, down guildford to reading

 

[bb21]

gatwick to reading. up gatwick to redhill, down redhill to shalford jct, up shalford jct to guilford, down guildford to reading

This confirms with the associated mainline directions for each section of the track.

 

[Tomnick]

The Sectional Appendix defines which direction is 'up' over a given section of route. Although it's true that 'up' is normally towards London, and also that the mileage often increases in the 'down' direction, there's plenty of exceptions to both of these.

An 'up' service will, more often than not, become a 'down' service for at least a small part of its journey.

 

[hairyhandedfool]

What about lines that go through London? Or not to London at all ?

The 'Thameslink' route changes over at Farringdon. The 'Up Moorgate' becomes the 'Down Holborn' as it rounds the curve over the former Junction (the line round to Moorgate remained the 'Up' line when the junction was there). The 'Up Holborn' becomes the 'Down Moorgate' in the same place.

The other change I know of on the 'Thameslink' route is at Sutton. I'm not sure of the line names, but I think the 'Up Wimbledon' diverges from the 'Down Portsmouth' and the 'Down Wimbledon' joins the 'Up Portsmouth'.

Basically, where a line starts or ends the 'Up' and 'Down' can change.

As for what governs 'Up' and 'Down', it varies by route, but typically, 'Up' goes to a particular place (generally London, but there are others) and 'Down' goes away from that place.

 

[Toots]

'Up' does indeed normally indicate the route heading to London,although some lines still go back to the time when 'Up' was in the direction of the Company headquarters.......

 

[mallard]

For the Cross-Country route (SW-NE), up and down are defined in relation to Derby instead of London. This means that a Cross-Country train has the same "direction" as the "London" trains on the GWML, MML and ECML. The only time their direction is "wrong" is through Birmingham.

There is a '0' mile-marker at the southern end of one of Derby's platforms.

I'm not sure what the convention is on the Manchester-Bournemouth route, but logic would say that the train switches from "Up" to "Down" at either Reading or Basingstoke. No idea how it works on Reading-Newcastle though...

 

[Cherry_Picker]

Kidderminster - Marylebone trains are actually on the down line until they reach the junction beyond Stourbridge Junction, as miles are counted towards Paddington via Worcester until a train makes it over the junction. Are there any other examples of trains to London travelling on the down line?

 

[mallard]

Are there any other examples of trains to London travelling on the down line?

Until the latest timetable change, East Coast ran services to/from Glasgow Central, while Virgin ran trains to/from Edinburgh via Carstairs. This meant that there were trains going to London in opposite directions on the line between Carstairs and Edinburgh. Clearly they can't both be on the "up" lines!

 

[ChiefPlanner]

"Up" Bristol to Derby , also Newport to Hereford , and logically - to the top of the Valleys from Queen St , Cardiff.

 

[Schnellzug]

Kidderminster - Marylebone trains are actually on the down line until they reach the junction beyond Stourbridge Junction, as miles are counted towards Paddington via Worcester until a train makes it over the junction. Are there any other examples of trains to London travelling on the down line?

Waterloo trains leave Exeter St. D in the down direction and then onto the Up Waterloo line, and (in the days when they ran through to the West via Okehampton) Down Waterloo trains then ran on the Up line as far as Cowley Bridge Junction, I believe.

 

[142094]

Any other system use 'In' and 'Out' references like the Tyne and Wear Metro?

 

[Oracle]

Which is which direction for the Test Valley line from/to Redbridge Junction? And to/from Eastleigh-Salisbury Tunnel Junction?

 

[Schnellzug]

I presume that it'd be the direction they're facing when they join the line to London, so the Test Valley'd be Up towards Redbridge, since they leave Salisbury in the Up direction, don't they. From Eastleigh via Chandlers Ford is an interesting one, though; they leave Eastleigh as Up trains but then become Down when they reach Romsey, but what are they in between?!

 

[Tomnick]

As previously posted, it depends what the Sectional Appendix says for each portion of route. Assuming Salisbury to Redbridge is Up (I'd have to check), an Eastleigh to Romsey train would become a Down train at some point, probably either at Eastleigh or Romsey; at any point on its journey where it's not travelling in the Down direction, it's travelling in the Up direction...!