Using your Card to collect tickets, and the User Interface

[mralexn]

So as it stands at the moment, if you book lots of journeys online, and appear at a TVM with your card, you have to type in loads of 8 Character and diget numbers, for every single journey, and as i know from personal experience this takes a Lot! of time, and can be very confusing for people who do not use the trains often, and normally also bring the wrong code with them :P

So what do you think would be a better way of doing this?

Personally i think Putting your card into the machine then having one password of your choice that you enter and then it shows you all of the journeys that are "pending" on that card, and then you simply click and choose what ones you want, or "print all"
So the card is still secure, you can even make the password the password from your account you use to book tickets or something like that.

Anyway, any ideas what you would like to change?

 

[Bungle73]

If you book them all at the same time you only have one code.

 

[mirodo]

I booked a ticket on the eastcoast website last week and collected the ticket from one of the machines at BAL - it printed it off for me without the need for entering my confirmation code.

 

[mralexn]

If you book them all at the same time you only have one code.

i know what you mean if its a single or return journey, bur if your like me, and its off one train on another and another then you end up with lots of different journeys in your basket, and it always gives me loads of codes, but oddly enough i never have to enter the last code it just prints it off for me

 

[Bungle73]

I booked a ticket on the eastcoast website last week and collected the ticket from one of the machines at BAL - it printed it off for me without the need for entering my confirmation code.

That's odd. I've booked through EC a few times and I've always needed the code.

i know what you mean if its a single or return journey, bur if your like me, and its off one train on another and another then you end up with lots of different journeys in your basket, and it always gives me loads of codes, but oddly enough i never have to enter the last code it just prints it off for me

I've booked journeys separately, but at the same time and it's only given me the one code.

 

[mralexn]

That's odd. I've booked through EC a few times and I've always needed the code.

I've booked journeys separately, but at the same time and it's only given me the one code.

it always gives me loads of codes for every journey, and when your planning a massive trip with around 30 different trains :P your not the most popular person in the que put it that way lol :P

 

[mirodo]

That's odd. I've booked through EC a few times and I've always needed the code.

Yes, it surpised me as well, as I've always had to enter the code before. I've got another ticket to pick up now, so I'll try at a different station and see if it does the same thing.

 

[lemonic]

As far as I am aware, Trainline based booking engines e.g. FGW, EMT, GA give you one code per journey (single or return) in the booking whereas WebTIS based booking engines e.g. East Coast, RedSpottedHanky give you one code for all the journeys in the booking.

 

[island]

And some, but not all, ticket machines will print your booking automatically if you only have one to collect.

 

[dggar]

I booked a ticket on the eastcoast website last week and collected the ticket from one of the machines at BAL - it printed it off for me without the need for entering my confirmation code.

I picked up tickets at Manchester Pic yesterday, which were booked through East Coast trains. After putting in my card the tickets were printed staightaway without the code

 

[londonbridge]

In a previous thread on this it was suggested that whether you use a debit or credit card may have some bearing on whether you have to enter the code or not-but I don't think it's that as I've used both to book in the past,sometimes I've had to enter the code and sometimes not. Things to consider:

Debit or credit card used (though I doubt it's that,as above)
TOC used to book
Ticket machine used to collect the ticket(s).

 

[yorkie]

Personally i think Putting your card into the machine then having one password of your choice that you enter and then it shows you all of the journeys that are "pending" on that card, and then you simply click and choose what ones you want, or "print all"

So the card is still secure, you can even make the password the password from your account you use to book tickets or something like that.

Are you proposing one national system for all ticket vendors, and all TOD-enabled machines on all TOCs? How would this work with Data Protection principles, if all TOCs had access to this data? How would such a system be maintained?

That's odd. I've booked through EC a few times and I've always needed the code.

I've booked journeys separately, but at the same time and it's only given me the one code.

In order to keep things "simple" (in ATOC-speak; that actually means complicated) the rail industry does not have a standard set of behaviour for what occurs when you book multiple tickets on one booking. It varies by booking engine!

And, in a further complication, if you enter the TOD number for a booking of multiple tickets, some machines will automatically print them all (with no option to only print some) while other machines (e.g. Northern) will not print anything until you select the ticket(s) you want to print.

Like ticket restrictions, these inconsistencies are "the same across all train companies nationwide, so you know exactly where you stand."

As far as I am aware, Trainline based booking engines e.g. FGW, EMT, GA give you one code per journey (single or return) in the booking whereas WebTIS based booking engines e.g. East Coast, RedSpottedHanky give you one code for all the journeys in the booking.

Yes, I am pretty sure that is correct.

And some, but not all, ticket machines will print your booking automatically if you only have one to collect.

True. As with most, East Coast prints them all automatically, Northern you have to choose.

 

[bb21]

Generally speaking all S&B machines require you to enter your code, even if there is only one booking associated with the card. Other machines, eg. FastTicket, will print the booking automatically if there is only one associated with the card.

 

[DaveNewcastle]

. . . . whereas WebTIS based booking engines e.g. East Coast, RedSpottedHanky give you one code for all the journeys in the booking.

But there is a limit (on East Coast) to the number of bookings that can be made from the one account within a 24 hour period.

 

[David Goddard]

If booking tickets online, I usually use the SouthWest Trains website.

When I went to Derby last year, I booked it in three seperate legs to save money, and although I only had to enter card details once and effectively pay the total, I was given three seperate transaction codes, and when my bill came there were three entries on the card account.

On collection (at an FGW machine at Reading), I had to insert my card, enter the code, print tickets and then remove the card again for each of the three legs. Unsuprisingly there was a small queue behind me and it was a good job that I had allowed plenty of time before departure, as these machines are not the fastest at printing each coupon.

 

[spasmj]

So as it stands at the moment, if you book lots of journeys online, and appear at a TVM with your card, you have to type in loads of 8 Character and diget numbers, for every single journey, and as i know from personal experience this takes a Lot! of time, and can be very confusing for people who do not use the trains often, and normally also bring the wrong code with them :P

So what do you think would be a better way of doing this?

Personally i think Putting your card into the machine then having one password of your choice that you enter and then it shows you all of the journeys that are "pending" on that card, and then you simply click and choose what ones you want, or "print all"
So the card is still secure, you can even make the password the password from your account you use to book tickets or something like that.

Anyway, any ideas what you would like to change?

The recently enabled TOD option on Northern TVMs appears to do exactly that (Or does on the machine at Garforth at least).
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Gah, looks like Yorkie has pretty much said that already.

In other exciting Northern related news, card only TVMs seem to be being installed at most minor stations, as are electronic displays.

 

[185]

In the US, with Amtrak, it's card in and straight away just select the ticket you want to print.

The credit card itself is deemed adequate enough proof that you are infact you and there's no need for a stupid password.

The password would be good for those without a credit card, but otherwise serves no purpose.

 

[radamfi]

In the US, with Amtrak, it's card in and straight away just select the ticket you want to print.

The credit card itself is deemed adequate enough proof that you are infact you and there's no need for a stupid password.

The password would be good for those without a credit card, but otherwise serves no purpose.

Given that some machines (for example Southern and Virgin, but not SWT or Greater Anglia) will give you your ticket automatically without putting the code in if you only have one ticket to collect, that indicates that the code is only being used to enable you to choose which ticket you want and the card is indeed considered to be enough security.

 

[Bungle73]

that indicates that the code is only being used to enable you to choose which ticket you want and the card is indeed considered to be enough security.

Why do they need the code for that?

 

[radamfi]

Why do they need the code for that?

In theory they don't, and apparently the new Northern machines don't (see earlier in the thread). Supplying the code is one way of making that choice.

 

[zero]

The redspottedhanky machine at Imperial College (South Kensington, London) requires the code only, and doesn't have a slot for a card.

 

[mralexn]

In theory they don't, and apparently the new Northern machines don't (see earlier in the thread). Supplying the code is one way of making that choice.

See IMO as i said at that start, instead of giving the user this "code"
There should just be a list on tickets pending on that card for use. so instead on having to write down lots of codes and then typing them all in, (imagine the scene at a small station with 1TVM)
You would not be the most popular person :P

 

[dvboy]

The code is needed for collecting tickets that haven't been paid for by card, for example using RSH loyalty points, you can put any card in as long as you have the code.

The code is also used when collecting tickets from ticket offices rather than machines, you wouldn't need the card then either (even if you booked it with one). Another example is tickets booked through a company for business travel.

 

[aleph_0]

The redspottedhanky machine at Imperial College (South Kensington, London) requires the code only, and doesn't have a slot for a card.

Ooh, that's quite interesting, a ticket collection machine that's not located in a station. According to this blogpost:
http://www2.imperial.ac.uk/blog/ann...-uk-rail-tickets-for-college-or-personal-use/
Imperial have a machine at both South Kensington and Hammersmith.

This sounds like quite a good idea in general, placing a machine at a convenient non-station collection allows people to pick up tickets prior to travelling, provides advertising, and hopefully covers it's cost in saved collection fees/collection fees from other ToCs.

 

[radamfi]

The redspottedhanky machine at Imperial College (South Kensington, London) requires the code only, and doesn't have a slot for a card.

Is this machine accessible to the general public, or just students? It could be useful to people who have lost the card used to pay for the tickets.

Can you pick up tickets bought from other websites at these machines?

 

[route:oxford]

Are you proposing one national system for all ticket vendors, and all TOD-enabled machines on all TOCs? How would this work with Data Protection principles, if all TOCs had access to this data? How would such a system be maintained?

It would probably work just like the LINK ATM system works.

 

[TUC]

The collection reference numbers do seem to be unnecessarily long in terms of customer-friendliness. Why can't a simple four-digit PIN be generated? After all if its secure enough or bank ATM machines its surely secure enough to collect a rail ticket.

The fact that some of the systems generate both booking reference and collection reference numbers also seems unnecessarily confusing especially since, bizarrely, the confirmation emails often have the booking reference at the top rather than collection number. Can't these at least be one and the same?

 

[bb21]

The fact that some of the systems generate both booking reference and collection reference numbers also seems unnecessarily confusing especially since, bizarrely, the confirmation emails often have the booking reference at the top rather than collection number. Can't these at least be one and the same?

I agree with this point, however I trust that booking references are sequential, with possibly some checksum digits appended to the end, so they would be quite easy to forge, whereas collection references are pseudo-random.

Maybe the booking references should be shown in a less dominant way in comparison to the collection references.

 

[island]

Ooh, that's quite interesting, a ticket collection machine that's not located in a station. According to this blogpost:
http://www2.imperial.ac.uk/blog/ann...-uk-rail-tickets-for-college-or-personal-use/
Imperial have a machine at both South Kensington and Hammersmith.

This sounds like quite a good idea in general, placing a machine at a convenient non-station collection allows people to pick up tickets prior to travelling, provides advertising, and hopefully covers it's cost in saved collection fees/collection fees from other ToCs.

Thetrainline.com provides code-only ToD machines for its corporate customers.

 

[PauloDavesi]

Surely self printed or mobile phone tickets would be easier?