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Vaccine passports or masks?

If you had to choose one measure, which would you choose?


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Cdd89

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(Setting aside for a moment the fact that many of us will strongly disagree with both options and therefore view this as a false choice!).

If additional restrictions are brought in, it’s a virtual certainty that they will include one or both of these options.

Both have been discussed extensively on here, but I’m curious as to what people would prefer if forced to choose between them.

I would personally (and highly begrudgingly) go for vaccine passports as they aren’t discriminatory against the disabled or a barrier to communication in the same way that masks are. But giving up the ability to go around anonymously, as well as marginalising those without valid ID, would be a huge price to pay for that.
 
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lxfe_mxtterz

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Obviously a difficult choice, but I have decided to choose mandatory masks...

I have nothing against being vaccinated, but introducing stupid little cards to prove what you then can and can't do screams out radical invasion of freedom (particularly to those who can't be vaccinated or haven't yet had the chance), and the whole thing quite honestly seems to be more about wanting to control you rather than anything to do with a virus!

At least with mandatory masks, if you get sick and tired enough of them, you can "become exempt". ;)
 

takno

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Refuse to vote. Masks are an unpleasant waste of everybody's time and energy, while vaccine passports affect fewer people, buy are a completely unacceptable intrusion into normal life which needs to be treated as the authoritarian menace that it is
 

Yew

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Which ever one has high-quality randomised control trials supporting it's effectiveness, and a robust cost benefit analysis in it's favour.


I guess that's none then. This sort of knee jerk idiocy might have been acceptable in March 2020, but after 18 months there's no excuse for not returning to a robust evidence-based approach.
 

APT618S

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My vote would be for neither.
Vaccine passports are wrong, and the normal type of masks used ineffective.
 

davews

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My vote would have to be neither, but on the basis that I would continue as being exempt from mask wearing so wouldn't wear one anyway I voted for masks. There is utterly no point in passports if as we now know the vaccine does not stop spread.
 

Cdd89

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There is utterly no point in passports if as we now know the vaccine does not stop spread.
My decision was based on the observable fact that neither measure (nor indeed both measures together) stops spread.

I did consider the exemption angle, which is a strong point, but there is no exemption from others wearing masks.
 

HSTEd

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I'd much rather put up with masks than create a system that the state can use forevermore to impose tailored lockdowns on any person or groups of person at will.
 

bramling

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(Setting aside for a moment the fact that many of us will strongly disagree with both options and therefore view this as a false choice!).

If additional restrictions are brought in, it’s a virtual certainty that they will include one or both of these options.

Both have been discussed extensively on here, but I’m curious as to what people would prefer if forced to choose between them.

I would personally (and highly begrudgingly) go for vaccine passports as they aren’t discriminatory against the disabled or a barrier to communication in the same way that masks are. But giving up the ability to go around anonymously, as well as marginalising those without valid ID, would be a huge price to pay for that.

It really is a choice between having right or left leg amputated. But if it really *has* to be one or the other, I’d go with vaccine passports.
 

yorkie

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Neither!

But if I had to choose, I would choose anything but masks because standard masks are completely ineffective against aerosols as well as being highly symbolic.

Vaccine passports for domestic purposes would have health benefits but are disproportionate and very wrong, even though I strongly believe in the benefits of vaccination and would encourage everyone to get vaccinated. But forcing people into it is not acceptable. It is like using a sledgehammer to crack a nut. We should instead be gently convincing people of the benefits of vaccination.
 

brad465

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Like others I'd rather have neither, but have gone for passports as masks have all sorts of issues concerning their impact on the environment and communication.
 

Silver Cobra

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Count me as another person who would rather have neither of these. But in the situation where one or the other must be put in place, after my experience in London this weekend, I would take vaccine passports over masks. For me, masks are a far more intrusive measure than vaccine passports, and the potential environmental impact of masks does worry me as well.
 

MikeWM

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Neither of course, but much as I loathe masks, I loathe the idea of a 'papers please' society even more, and (as you'll have noticed from my posts over the last year or so) I very much fear where that would lead us.
 

bramling

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Neither of course, but much as I loathe masks, I loathe the idea of a 'papers please' society even more, and (as you'll have noticed from my posts over the last year or so) I very much fear where that would lead us.

I agree in principle, however I feel vaccine passports would - through practicality - die away naturally. Masks on the other hand seem like a piece of brown stuff which refuses to flush down the toilet, due to the small core of enthusiasts who just can’t let go of them.

It’s a lot harder to make a virtue-signalling statement with a vaccine passport, it doesn’t shout “look at me” in the same way that strutting round the high street with a mask does.
 

takno

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I agree in principle, however I feel vaccine passports would - through practicality - die away naturally. Masks on the other hand seem like a piece of brown stuff which refuses to flush down the toilet, due to the small core of enthusiasts who just can’t let go of them.

It’s a lot harder to make a virtue-signalling statement with a vaccine passport, it doesn’t shout “look at me” in the same way that strutting round the high street with a mask does.
The trouble is that vaccine passports are one of those things you can keep in the cabinet and only apply to groups you want to annoy and suppress. They're putting the entire Scottish nightclub industry in mortal danger, but not that many people go to clubs so less people care, as can be seen from this thread. If it extended to pubs and public transport on day one a lot of people might feel quite differently.

As with everything else, it's not day one you should be worrying about, but where it will creep and crawl its way into.
 

Tracked

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If it's to be one or the other I'd go for masks; how long would it be before we got mission creep on the vaccine passports?

Also, when it was really cold at the start of the year I used to leave the mask on outside, it was quite good at keeping my mouth warm :lol:
 

island

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I don't have any particular objections personally to vaccine passports inasmuch as I have one and don't personally find it inconvenient or annoying to show. I was in Ireland in August and September where they need to be presented to dine-in at cafés and restaurants and did not find it any bother at all.

As such I have voted for them over masks. I would, of course, prefer neither.
 

Furryanimal

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Here in Wales we have never got rid of masks and have vaccine passports.
Other than that we are living pretty normally now....but if I had to make such a choice it would be for vaccine passports.
As a glasses wearer I have the added expense of anti fog wipes!
 

NorthKent1989

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(Setting aside for a moment the fact that many of us will strongly disagree with both options and therefore view this as a false choice!).

If additional restrictions are brought in, it’s a virtual certainty that they will include one or both of these options.

Both have been discussed extensively on here, but I’m curious as to what people would prefer if forced to choose between them.

I would personally (and highly begrudgingly) go for vaccine passports as they aren’t discriminatory against the disabled or a barrier to communication in the same way that masks are. But giving up the ability to go around anonymously, as well as marginalising those without valid ID, would be a huge price to pay for that.

Vaccine passports will inevitably be discriminatory though to some group.

I think both are a massive waste of time and this farce shouldn’t be prolonged any longer than necessary.

However I would go for masks because I’m exempt from them and they’re easier to get around, masks are increasingly becoming a thing of the past where as vaccine passports are a dark slippery slope into some dystopian nightmare
 

52290

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I've just watched last night's Question Time. 100% of the panel and audience in favour of compulsory mask wearing. 100% of the panel and audience not wearing masks.
 

yorkie

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I've just watched last night's Question Time. 100% of the panel and audience in favour of compulsory mask wearing. 100% of the panel and audience not wearing masks.
That sums up the sort of people who seek to mandate masks.
 

bramling

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Will that ever be possible.

I don’t think it’s going to happen soon.

I do wonder when we get to mid-March next year, after what’s probably likely to end up being another miserable winter, and we get the inevitable “two years since first lockdown” headlines, people will start to look back and question how much of their lives has been set aside to all this.

Meanwhile, we still have those who want this to continue as a means of avoiding having to travel to an office. Plenty of that going on in my town - far too dangerous to get the train to work (just think how terrible it is that there will be people on the train who won’t be wearing a mask), but okay to go to a restaurant instead.
 

TPO

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I don’t think it’s going to happen soon.

I do wonder when we get to mid-March next year, after what’s probably likely to end up being another miserable winter, and we get the inevitable “two years since first lockdown” headlines, people will start to look back and question how much of their lives has been set aside to all this.

Meanwhile, we still have those who want this to continue as a means of avoiding having to travel to an office. Plenty of that going on in my town - far too dangerous to get the train to work (just think how terrible it is that there will be people on the train who won’t be wearing a mask), but okay to go to a restaurant instead.

Much as I disagree with much of what Drakeford does/says in Wales, one thing I agree with is the Welsh govt encouraging people to be allowed to work from home longer term so long as (a) they can do their job from home and (b)) they want to do so.

When we look at the amount of investment needed for transport peak commuter flows, there's a strong argument for instead supporting things that reduce that demand- e.g. provision of fast broadband and new houses built with WFH in mind- as that is much lower cost than building transport infrastructure AND can result in improved quality of family life. Why shouldn't WFH carry on where it's been effective?

I recognise that many jobs cannot be done from home, but if those who could and wanted to work from home did so, it would ease the commuting crowding/stress on those who have no choice.... so everyone wins.

At the very least we should be separating out the WFH issue from the COVID issue and encouraging a mature conversation with managers/workplaces who had an old-fashioned attachment to "presenteeism."

TPO
 
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