• Our new ticketing site is now live! Using either this or the original site (both powered by TrainSplit) helps support the running of the forum with every ticket purchase! Find out more and ask any questions/give us feedback in this thread!

Vaccine Progress, Approval, and Deployment

Status
Not open for further replies.

packermac

Member
Joined
16 Sep 2019
Messages
543
Location
Swanage
Yeah I'm wondering too, I actually have no idea where I'm registered. It's somewhere in Liverpool as that's where I lived the last time I went to a doctor about 14 years ago, but having rung round a few surgeries nobody seems to have my records. And my local surgery told me I'd have to find out before they could register me.
Well as Doctors are paid by the NHS for each registered patient then it is a god way of making sure that no corruption is taking place by having the same person registered at multi surgeries.
Anyone not registered at a GP is just asking for trouble if something unexpected happens.
I also assume you have never been treated in a hospital/small accident unit as they will want to know who your GP is.
 
Sponsor Post - registered members do not see these adverts; click here to register, or click here to log in
R

RailUK Forums

kristiang85

Established Member
Joined
23 Jan 2018
Messages
2,712
Well as Doctors are paid by the NHS for each registered patient then it is a god way of making sure that no corruption is taking place by having the same person registered at multi surgeries.
Anyone not registered at a GP is just asking for trouble if something unexpected happens.
I also assume you have never been treated in a hospital/small accident unit as they will want to know who your GP is.

No, as I said I've not had any health issues, but indeed it is prudent to register, just the faff of it meant I put it off and the current situation has given me a reason to get it done.

Surely if I went to A&E I wouldn't be refused treatment though for simply not knowing where I was registered?
 

Richard Scott

Established Member
Associate Staff
International Transport
Railtours & Preservation
Joined
13 Dec 2018
Messages
4,151
Well as Doctors are paid by the NHS for each registered patient then it is a god way of making sure that no corruption is taking place by having the same person registered at multi surgeries.
Anyone not registered at a GP is just asking for trouble if something unexpected happens.
I also assume you have never been treated in a hospital/small accident unit as they will want to know who your GP is.
Digression I know but usually surgery you're registered at will suffice.
 

kez19

Established Member
Joined
15 May 2020
Messages
2,146
Location
Dundee
When I was getting mine I was registered at my doctors however trying to find me on the system was like looking for a needle in a haystack!

I seem to get this issue on both NHS Scotland as well as the England counterpart I wonder why? (sorry bit off topic as my address is registered)
 

Horizon22

Established Member
Associate Staff
Jobs & Careers
Joined
8 Sep 2019
Messages
9,572
Location
London
My parents - both in their 60s and working for the NHS - are getting their vaccines over the next week; one today and another on Wednesday.
 

samxool

Member
Joined
26 Jan 2013
Messages
77
Well as Doctors are paid by the NHS for each registered patient then it is a god way of making sure that no corruption is taking place by having the same person registered at multi surgeries.
Anyone not registered at a GP is just asking for trouble if something unexpected happens.
I also assume you have never been treated in a hospital/small accident unit as they will want to know who your GP is.
I'm in the same boat. I've no idea if I'm registered anywhere. I'm 39, I've not had a need to see a doctor since I was about 15 years old. I've never been admitted to hospital either. I remember being taken to a number of gp surgeries as a kid/teenager, but God knows which surgery, if any, I would be registered with.
 

ninja-lewis

Member
Joined
27 Oct 2012
Messages
80
I thought we were supposed to have a factory churning this stuff out. How comes India's produced 50 million, yet we've only got 500k !
AstraZeneca do have a factory producing vaccines in the UK and have already produced enough substance in bulk form for several million doses. Oxford made it a condition that any partner had to be prepared to start bulk production before clinical trials were completed to save time.

But there are two challenges that constrain how much vaccine is available immediately: each batch has to be tested and approved, which only became possible last week when the MHRA confirmed the conditions a batch has to meet as part of the formal emergency approval. The other challenge is that the vaccine then has to be packaged into vials for use. Once in vials, the clock is ticking on shelf life so to avoid wasting bulk vaccine they couldn't do this until very recently.

So in the immediate term we're seeing a ramp up to full capacity as indicated by AZ announcements that they will be supplying 2 million a week within the next 2-3 weeks.

According to latest news reports, its 530k being issued now for use tomorrow with a further 407k due to be ready tomorrow for use later this week. Further batches will likely arrive later in the week.

As for India, Oxford/AstraZeneca have licensed the vaccine to the Serum Institute of India, which is the largest vaccine manufacturer in the world (1.5 billion doses a year across various existing vaccines).
 

yorksrob

Veteran Member
Joined
6 Aug 2009
Messages
41,966
Location
Yorks
AstraZeneca do have a factory producing vaccines in the UK and have already produced enough substance in bulk form for several million doses. Oxford made it a condition that any partner had to be prepared to start bulk production before clinical trials were completed to save time.

But there are two challenges that constrain how much vaccine is available immediately: each batch has to be tested and approved, which only became possible last week when the MHRA confirmed the conditions a batch has to meet as part of the formal emergency approval. The other challenge is that the vaccine then has to be packaged into vials for use. Once in vials, the clock is ticking on shelf life so to avoid wasting bulk vaccine they couldn't do this until very recently.

So in the immediate term we're seeing a ramp up to full capacity as indicated by AZ announcements that they will be supplying 2 million a week within the next 2-3 weeks.

According to latest news reports, its 530k being issued now for use tomorrow with a further 407k due to be ready tomorrow for use later this week. Further batches will likely arrive later in the week.

As for India, Oxford/AstraZeneca have licensed the vaccine to the Serum Institute of India, which is the largest vaccine manufacturer in the world (1.5 billion doses a year across various existing vaccines).

That's useful background. Thanks for the info.

I must admit, the Times report which has appeared since my email yesterday, confirming the ramp-up to 2m doses has helped to put my mind at rest somewhat.
 

HSTEd

Veteran Member
Joined
14 Jul 2011
Messages
18,913
About now and getting progressively bigger over time, we should see case and death numbers start to decouple.
 

NorthOxonian

Established Member
Associate Staff
Buses & Coaches
Joined
5 Jul 2018
Messages
1,565
Location
Oxford/Newcastle
About now and getting progressively bigger over time, we should see case and death numbers start to decouple.
They've done about 1 million vaccinations, and I've seen it suggested that the most vulnerable 1 million people account for close to a third of the deaths. Given we know the efficacy of the Pfizer vaccine is over 50% even with just one shot, then deaths should drop by about a sixth once that immunity kicks in, which takes a couple of weeks. It won't be a massive decoupling, but instead of 600 deaths in a particular day we might see 500 instead.

Though it could be that hospitalisations might be more spread out than deaths, with the most vulnerable million accounting for a lot less than a third of those. I've not seen any figures on that. The pressure on hospitals is really the big crisis at the moment, and will be a huge factor when deciding our strategy through the winter.
 

HSTEd

Veteran Member
Joined
14 Jul 2011
Messages
18,913
They've done about 1 million vaccinations, and I've seen it suggested that the most vulnerable 1 million people account for close to a third of the deaths.
About 2% of the population is about 40% of the deaths as I understand it.

Unfortunately something like a million doses in the first stage are diverted to care home workers and NHS staff and thus do not contribute.


Given we know the efficacy of the Pfizer vaccine is over 50% even with just one shot
That figure is measured from the instant the injection occurs, within about ten days it's much better than that.
 

Bertie the bus

Established Member
Joined
15 Aug 2014
Messages
3,053
It isn't just the elderly who have been vaccinated though. NHS and care home staff have also been given the vaccine so 1 million vaccinations doesn't equate to 1 million elderly vaccinated. Care homes still make up a significant proportion of the deaths and they have hardly started on them. Deaths and hospitisations will reduce with vaccination but it won't be for a few weeks yet.
 

Nicholas Lewis

On Moderation
Joined
9 Aug 2019
Messages
7,346
Location
Surrey
Unfortunately something like a million doses in the first stage are diverted to care home workers and NHS staff and thus do not contribute.
This contributes to keeping staff at work and if I was managing this I would have vaccinated the entire NHS first and told anyone over 70 to shield for a few weeks. Anyhow Im feeling more confident now than i was early doors but why isn't our Minister for Vaccination Nadhim Zwhwai not briefing out the information and keeping the population informed that there is positivity coming and just hunker down and help us get through this into better times.
 

The Ham

Established Member
Joined
6 Jul 2012
Messages
11,157
About 2% of the population is about 40% of the deaths as I understand it.

Unfortunately something like a million doses in the first stage are diverted to care home workers and NHS staff and thus do not contribute.



That figure is measured from the instant the injection occurs, within about ten days it's much better than that.

The other thing to note is that the rates of protection of getting the disease isn't the same as the rates of protection from getting it and going to hospital or getting it, going to hospital and then dying.

If the vaccine only gives you protection from catching the virus then if you get it your risk remains for going to hospital or dying.

However if it also reduces the severity of the illness (which appears to be the case with the Oxford vaccine, where there were no hospitalisations) then that reduces your risk of going to hospital and therefore your risk of dying.

As such we could see the death rates fall more than the previously suggested 600 to 500.

As an example, let's say that each vaccine halves your risk of contracting Covid-19 by 50% and then even if you catch it you are half as likely to die.

If we've vaccinated the people who make up a 1/3 of deaths and there's otherwise 600 deaths a day then that would then fall by 100 deaths as they don't catch the virus and then a further 50 deaths as those who catch it are then less likely to die. That's 1/4 less deaths at 450.

Now the group who make up the next third of deaths is then likely need more people to be vaccinated than the first group. However with the faster rate of vaccinating with more vaccines available it might not be all that much longer in duration. Let's say it takes us 4 weeks to get the 1 million high risk people vaccinated, it may only take 5 weeks to get the next 7 million done.

That could mean that by mid to late February we could see the numbers dying having been reduced by 1/2 of what it would otherwise have been with the same number of cases. If we are then doing second doses and getting rates of higher than 50% protection of infection and of not dying if infected, then the numbers could go fairly low fairly quickly.

If we get to 90% protection and 75% chance of not dying if infected then with the first third it would fall from 600 to 405 and with the second third it would fall to 210.

However with fewer people who are able to be infected then there's likely to be fewer people getting infected as there's less people able to pass it on (at least with the Oxford vaccine we know that there's low rates of measurable virus at the weekly tests).
 

packermac

Member
Joined
16 Sep 2019
Messages
543
Location
Swanage
That's useful background. Thanks for the info.

I must admit, the Times report which has appeared since my email yesterday, confirming the ramp-up to 2m doses has helped to put my mind at rest somewhat.
If they achieve 2M per week that is about 12 weeks for all the first doses plus another 12 for the second, so mid summer before I will be doing anything different, or more normal.
 

yorksrob

Veteran Member
Joined
6 Aug 2009
Messages
41,966
Location
Yorks
If they achieve 2M per week that is about 12 weeks for all the first doses plus another 12 for the second, so mid summer before I will be doing anything different, or more normal.

I'm sure a lot would depend on one's own risk profile, however personally I would be prepared to undertake socially distanced hospitality activities as soon as they were permitted.
 

bengley

Established Member
Joined
18 May 2008
Messages
1,934
I'd be quite happy going into a normal pre-covid pub now.
 

The Ham

Established Member
Joined
6 Jul 2012
Messages
11,157
If they achieve 2M per week that is about 12 weeks for all the first doses plus another 12 for the second, so mid summer before I will be doing anything different, or more normal.

The level of protection would certainly be much higher after the second dose, but even a 50% level of protection and a 50% reduction in the risk of hospitalisation of you do catch it would mean those with the first dose of vaccine would be 75% less likely to go to hospital.

Clearly getting to 97.5% less likely to go to hospital (95% protection and 50% chance of going to hospital if you are infected) would be better, but let's not confuse perfect with good enough, especially if those who would be high risk carry on with some measures to protect themselves.

For instance going to the pub and sitting outside, limiting the numbers of people who you interact with, trying to only interact with those who are limiting their risk of being in contact with it, maintaining social distancing, getting shopping delivered, etc.

Clearly if there's a need to do the above (such as wanting to go to the shops as that's what you enjoy, or wanting to hug grandchildren/grandparents) then it may well be that other measures are needed to help manage risk (going shopping may require going somewhere where the shops are accessed from outside, such as a High Street, to minimise time inside; likewise hugging grandchildren/grandparents may require the children to have been away from school for 7 days to hopefully identify if any class mates have tested positive).
 

hwl

Established Member
Joined
5 Feb 2012
Messages
7,713
The level of protection would certainly be much higher after the second dose, but even a 50% level of protection and a 50% reduction in the risk of hospitalisation of you do catch it would mean those with the first dose of vaccine would be 75% less likely to go to hospital.

Clearly getting to 97.5% less likely to go to hospital (95% protection and 50% chance of going to hospital if you are infected) would be better, but let's not confuse perfect with good enough, especially if those who would be high risk carry on with some measures to protect themselves.

For instance going to the pub and sitting outside, limiting the numbers of people who you interact with, trying to only interact with those who are limiting their risk of being in contact with it, maintaining social distancing, getting shopping delivered, etc.

Clearly if there's a need to do the above (such as wanting to go to the shops as that's what you enjoy, or wanting to hug grandchildren/grandparents) then it may well be that other measures are needed to help manage risk (going shopping may require going somewhere where the shops are accessed from outside, such as a High Street, to minimise time inside; likewise hugging grandchildren/grandparents may require the children to have been away from school for 7 days to hopefully identify if any class mates have tested positive).
The reduction in hospitalisations and also level of care needed in hospital is actually the most interesting bit of the Oxford-AZ as regards effectiveness (far better than at reducing minor infections), zero hospitalisations 2 weeks post first jab but caution needed due to small overall numbers in the trial before extrapolating to the UK).

All the vaccines the UK government has shown interest in should in theory reduce transmission rate, but we won't know how much in practice for a while - they are studying NHS staff who get regular testing so we should get surprise bonus with vaccinating the younger age groups too..
 

Nicholas Lewis

On Moderation
Joined
9 Aug 2019
Messages
7,346
Location
Surrey
Astra Zeneca reaffirming they can supply 2m doses/week from 18th Jan govt need to ensure we have the logistic and staff in place to get it delivered into peoples arms at this rate. This is what Nadhim Zahawi was put in charge of but we've yet to see him come forward and show us what the plan is. This is now the primary job of the govt now and they should be marshalling the entire state apparatus along with all organisations who are offering support to ensure that 2m jabs / week are being done. BoJo must know that as he wouldn't keep quoting Easter as a realistic target for regulations to be relaxed. By showing people there is a roadmap then when the inevitable full lockdown 3 comes this week people may well be more accepting of it if there is clearer endpoint.
 

hwl

Established Member
Joined
5 Feb 2012
Messages
7,713
Astra Zeneca reaffirming they can supply 2m doses/week from 18th Jan govt need to ensure we have the logistic and staff in place to get it delivered into peoples arms at this rate. This is what Nadhim Zahawi was put in charge of but we've yet to see him come forward and show us what the plan is. This is now the primary job of the govt now and they should be marshalling the entire state apparatus along with all organisations who are offering support to ensure that 2m jabs / week are being done. BoJo must know that as he wouldn't keep quoting Easter as a realistic target for regulations to be relaxed. By showing people there is a roadmap then when the inevitable full lockdown 3 comes this week people may well be more accepting of it if there is clearer endpoint.
"for regulations to start to be relaxed" they were fairly clear it would be a gradual process not a massive derestriction day.

BoJo seems to be looking to blame any organisation outside his direct control recently for potential inability to reach 2m/week but they have put the ball back in BoJo's court so far today.
 

pitdiver

Member
Joined
22 Jan 2012
Messages
1,159
Location
Nottinghamshire
Is anybody on here NOT going to have the vaccination. Someone upthread mentioned that all is required to stick the needle in, push the plunger and withdraw the needle.
I think it takes a bit more than that.
Back in Sept/Oct I was invited to my Doctor's surgery to have the Flu Jab. It was like a production line. In one side and out the other. I am not saying that was wrong as they had plenty of people to deal with but I would have hoped that the person administering the injection was competent.
That may not have been the case as I am now suffering and have been for the last 3 months SIRVA. Shoulder Injury Related to Vaccination Administration. Look it up.
Because of that I am not have any more Injections in my arm or any where else in fact.
Forgot to mention I am in the 5th group on the priority list.
 
Last edited:

DB

Guest
Joined
18 Nov 2009
Messages
5,036
I'm not likely to be offered it for ages anyway (early 40s with no relevant heath problems), but I have no intention of taking it up even when eventually offered - it has been developed in a hurry so there is a risk (small, but still there) of potential long-term issues which haven't come to light yet, and I don't think any alleged benefit outweighs this given that I am in a low-risk group anyway. And I generally avoid the GP / hospitals anyway unless there is a very good reason.

I can see why those at higher risk would take a different view though.
 

Crossover

Established Member
Joined
4 Jun 2009
Messages
9,414
Location
Yorkshire
My feelings of fluctuated throughout the last 10 months, but my current feeling is that I would have the vaccine, if offered. Not that I am likely to be offered it anytime soon, though
 

Nicholas Lewis

On Moderation
Joined
9 Aug 2019
Messages
7,346
Location
Surrey
"for regulations to start to be relaxed" they were fairly clear it would be a gradual process not a massive derestriction day.
Agree as i said relaxation should be able to start but they should applying the tier rules they put in place to determine which tier your in although given a full lockdown is now coming there clearly disregarding any data now so those rules are probably also in the trash bin now and it will be based on levels of vaccination achieved. Doubt BoJo will give any clues later on that he will want to save positive news for another time.
 

The Ham

Established Member
Joined
6 Jul 2012
Messages
11,157
I'm not likely to be offered it for ages anyway (early 40s with no relevant heath problems), but I have no intention of taking it up even when eventually offered - it has been developed in a hurry so there is a risk (small, but still there) of potential long-term issues which haven't come to light yet, and I don't think any alleged benefit outweighs this given that I am in a low-risk group anyway. And I generally avoid the GP / hospitals anyway unless there is a very good reason.

I can see why those at higher risk would take a different view though.

The base vaccine, at least in the case of the Oxford had been around for a few years now and so the risks are lower than you probably think.

However as I've said before and I'll probably say again, the risk of many of the issues highlighted as problems with vaccines often happen to be at a probability of 1:50,000, the probability of dying on the roads in the next 12 months is five times more likely at 1:10,000.
 

Yew

Established Member
Joined
12 Mar 2011
Messages
6,923
Location
UK
Is anybody on here NOT going to have the vaccination. Someone upthread mentioned that all is required to stick the needle in, push the plunger and withdraw the needle.
I think it takes a bit more than that.
Back in Sept/Oct I was invited to my Doctor's surgery to have the Flu Jab. It was like a production line. In one side and out the other. I am not saying that was wrong as they had plenty of people to deal with but I would have hoped that the person administering the injection was competent.
That may not have been the case as I am now suffering and have been for the last 3 months SIRVA. Shoulder Injury Related to Vaccination Administration. Look it up.
Because of that I am not have any more Injections in my arm or any where else in fact.
Forgot to mention I am in the 5th group on the priority list.
If I were given a choice to either have it, or for someone more vulnerable (perhaps in a less developed country) to have it, then I would decline. However, I don't have any particular safety objections regarding it.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Top