Vaccine Progress, Approval, and Deployment

[Bantamzen]

To be fair, it does seem a bit unfortunate that staff in certain sectors that may have the potential to be either spreaders, or also likely to become ill themselves (admittedly extremely unlikely to be seriously ill) by virtue of the large number of people they come into contact with. Especially given when we hear that significant numbers of administrative staff in the NHS have already been vaccinated using leftover doses.

I think one of the thing we need to stop being so fixated on is this "being spreaders" thing. We have always been spreaders, we are literally walking virus factories with billions of little sacks of protein just there for any passing virus to exploit. What is important, and finally seems to have been recognised by the government is giving people treatment & vaccines to help them not become seriously ill.

In terms of vaccine prioritisation, I hate to say this but the undignified scramble and indignation from some sectors about not being prioritised kinds of negates all the supposed altruism that so many people were engaged in last year. Then they couldn't wait to tell you they were saving others, but throw a vaccine into the mix and it's "but I need it more". Everyone should wait their turn, let's get the vaccine out to those who need it most. Then those that don't can choose to have it, or not.

 

[sjpowermac]

To be fair, it does seem a bit unfortunate that staff in certain sectors that may have the potential to be either spreaders, or also likely to become ill themselves (admittedly extremely unlikely to be seriously ill) by virtue of the large number of people they come into contact with. Especially given when we hear that significant numbers of administrative staff in the NHS have already been vaccinated using leftover doses.

I can see your point regarding the police and possibly transport workers, but schools have enhanced hygiene, staggered break/lunchtimes, and now testing/masks in order to make them ‘Covid Secure’.

In terms of vaccine prioritisation, I hate to say this but the undignified scramble and indignation from some sectors about not being prioritised kinds of negates all the supposed altruism that so many people were engaged in last year. Then they couldn't wait to tell you they were saving others, but throw a vaccine into the mix and it's "but I need it more". Everyone should wait their turn, let's get the vaccine out to those who need it most. Then those that don't can choose to have it, or not.

For once, I congratulate you on a post I actually agree with! I guess though it does prove (yet again!) how nobody actually listens to those ‘militant’ teaching unions.

 

[Bantamzen]

For once, I congratulate you on a post I actually agree with! I guess though it does prove (yet again!) how nobody actually listens to those ‘militant’ teaching unions.

I feel faint, pass the wine....

 

[Mojo]

I can see your point regarding the police and possibly transport workers, but schools have enhanced hygiene, staggered break/lunchtimes, and now testing/masks in order to make them ‘Covid Secure’.

None of these measures change the fact that school staff, police and certain other employees cannot socially distance at work and in many cases whilst travelling to and from work. With the exception of testing and masks in classrooms (the latter of which will make no difference) all these measures already existed from September.

 

[sjpowermac]

None of these measures change the fact that school staff, police and certain other employees cannot socially distance at work and in many cases whilst travelling to and from work. With the exception of testing and masks in classrooms (the latter of which will make no difference) all these measures already existed from September.

I did say that I can see your point regarding the police and transport workers.

Quite so about the majority of Covid secure measures having been implemented in schools since September. Do you think that schools are ‘unsafe’?

 

[HSTEd]

By the time we arrange this scheme to prioritise professions, and work out some way to stop massive fraud - the programme will be a substantial way to completion.

 

[sjpowermac]

By the time we arrange this scheme to prioritise professions, and work out some way to stop massive fraud - the programme will be a substantial way to completion.

I think you are spot on with that, in addition to the obvious unfairness.

 

[Crossover]

By the time we arrange this scheme to prioritise professions, and work out some way to stop massive fraud - the programme will be a substantial way to completion.

I would agree. Complexity will breed inefficiency. Stick with the plan and keep knocking out at the rates we are doing and the process will be over before we know. KISS, as they say - Keep It Simple, Stupid

 

[Mojo]

Quite so about the majority of Covid secure measures having been implemented in schools since September. Do you think that schools are ‘unsafe’?

No, because for staff and students who are presently attending school (or due to be from the week after next), Covid does not pose a substantial risk to them, therefore it is not unsafe.

 

[35B]

I feel faint, pass the wine....

You may need something stronger - I also agree...

 

[matt]

Another good day yesterday with over 480k first doses given.

 

[Silver Cobra]

Yes, another 485K first doses and 35K second doses (new daily record for that, I believe), making 520K total vaccinations. Very good progress again.

 

[sjpowermac]

No, because for staff and students who are presently attending school (or due to be from the week after next), Covid does not pose a substantial risk to them, therefore it is not unsafe.

So given that you feel that schools are safe, why do you think that school staff should be prioritised for the vaccine? I’m just genuinely curious.

I feel faint, pass the wine....

You may need something stronger - I also agree...

I just hope that @Bantamzen sticks to wine, I would hate to be the reason he became a champagne socialist

 

[Mojo]

So given that you feel that schools are safe, why do you think that school staff should be prioritised for the vaccine? I’m just genuinely curious.

Because of the way this whole thing has been handled, frontline workers are at risk of catching and spreading and therefore the government using this as an excuse to withhold the return of our rights in the event positive test results increase.

Secondly, there is also a benefit with the reassurance of staff and family members of such people who, again, have been mislead into believing this is something they have to worry about. I personally know of a police officer and a nurse who have not seen their parents coming up for a year now (or at least claim not to have done!) because they worry that their jobs make them likely to harm them. Such a sad way of living and I honestly don’t know what I’d do in such circumstance but the benefit of peace of mind cannot be underestimated.

There was no justification in putting teachers ahead of groups 1-9 but if the technology exists I can see a case to put certain people first when it gets to the general population group.

 

[brad465]

By the time we arrange this scheme to prioritise professions, and work out some way to stop massive fraud - the programme will be a substantial way to completion.

Not to mention that the 40-49 and 50-59 age ranges will by default be capturing some of those in the professions that have been talked about for priority.

 

[sjpowermac]

Because of the way this whole thing has been handled, frontline workers are at risk of catching and spreading and therefore the government using this as an excuse to withhold the return of our rights in the event positive test results increase.

Secondly, there is also a benefit with the reassurance of staff and family members of such people who, again, have been mislead into believing this is something they have to worry about. I personally know of a police officer and a nurse who have not seen their parents coming up for a year now (or at least claim not to have done!) because they worry that their jobs make them likely to harm them. Such a sad way of living and I honestly don’t know what I’d do in such circumstance but the benefit of peace of mind cannot be underestimated.

There was no justification in putting teachers ahead of groups 1-9 but if the technology exists I can see a case to put certain people first when it gets to the general population group.

If I understand correctly, you believe that schools are safe, but school staff are at an increased risk of catching and spreading and should be prioritised so that they don’t then have to self isolate? Ditto transport workers? Where do we end though. Why not include shop/factory workers?

Your second point seems to be that again there’s no actual risk of a policeman spreading Covid to their parents, but they should be prioritised because they think there is a risk. It seems you want to use vaccinations as some kind of reward for working during the pandemic. I’m afraid we will have to agree to disagree here.

Not to mention that the 40-49 and 50-59 age ranges will by default be capturing some of those in the professions that have been talked about for priority.

Quite so.

 

[35B]

Because of the way this whole thing has been handled, frontline workers are at risk of catching and spreading and therefore the government using this as an excuse to withhold the return of our rights in the event positive test results increase.

Secondly, there is also a benefit with the reassurance of staff and family members of such people who, again, have been mislead into believing this is something they have to worry about. I personally know of a police officer and a nurse who have not seen their parents coming up for a year now (or at least claim not to have done!) because they worry that their jobs make them likely to harm them. Such a sad way of living and I honestly don’t know what I’d do in such circumstance but the benefit of peace of mind cannot be underestimated.

There was no justification in putting teachers ahead of groups 1-9 but if the technology exists I can see a case to put certain people first when it gets to the general population group.

If the technology exists is the key phrase. My GP has no idea what I do; they do know my age. Speed counts, this is simple.

 

[HSTEd]

Vacinating people does not make them more able to meet their parents legally.

And even if it did, surely we would beb etter vaccinating the parents than the people who might infect them?

 

[Solent&Wessex]

Vacinating people does not make them more able to meet their parents legally.

And even if it did, surely we would beb etter vaccinating the parents than the people who might infect them?

Nor does it negate the need to self isolate if you are identified as a close contact of someone or test positive yourself.

Thus the teaching unions claim that vaccinating teachers would reduce the rate of absence and hence school closures is largely untrue. If a teacher is identified as a close contact they still have to self isolate even if they have had the vaccine.

If teaching is anything like my workplace then most covid related absences are caused by someone being told to self isolate as a result of being a close contact rather than testing positive themselves. Vaccination won't currently solve this issue.

 

[sjpowermac]

Nor does it negate the need to self isolate if you are identified as a close contact of someone or test positive yourself.

Thus the teaching unions claim that vaccinating teachers would reduce the rate of absence and hence school closures is largely untrue. If a teacher is identified as a close contact they still have to self isolate even if they have had the vaccine.

If teaching is anything like my workplace then most covid related absences are caused by someone being told to self isolate as a result of being a close contact rather than testing positive themselves. Vaccination won't currently solve this issue.

You’ve assumed there that your own individual workplace in the railway industry is somehow representative of a completely different sector nationally. Would you care to provide some figures to back up your statement or did you just make it up?

Why focus on the teaching unions when those representing the police have made very similar statements? Do you think that the police should be prioritised?

As I’ve mentioned in a previous post, I’m in agreement with not prioritising teachers for the vaccine.

 

[KeithMcC]

My parents and in-laws are in their early 60s and they and their friends are all finding high levels of variability with this process, based on geography it seems. My dad 61, who lives in South Lakeland, has been able to book his appointment through this website, but his friends the same age (early 60s) who live in Barrow-in-Furness, are not able to do so. My father-in-law, South Derbyshire, 62 has been able to get in using it too. It won't let my mum, 59, book a slot BUT her friend also 59 who lives in York has been able to find an appointment at a vaccination center in Leeds.

I'm aware the site says 64 or over but certainly the system seems to be letting much younger people than that book - perhaps it's the case that as areas are moving through groups they start allowing them to book slots if available, but that they are being more cautious on who they are actively advertising should use it?

If you're 55 or over I'd say stick your details into the site, you never know you might get an appointment!

A friend of mine checked by calling 119 and the booking system is open to anyone over 60. They duly attended one of the main hubs and found it very quiet with the staff complaining that not enough people were signing up! There seems to be a delay getting GP invitations out as they are too busy and don't necessarily have the staff to do it. When I looked on Thursday I could get an appointment at any time in the next week.
But having done that my GP text arrived and I could get a local appointment the next day, so I now have a sore arm!
Word is getting around the local Facebook and neighbourhood groups so people are getting their appointments, but the website is still saying 64!

 

[Silver Cobra]

Word is getting around the local Facebook and neighbourhood groups so people are getting their appointments, but the website is still saying 64!

I think the website is just never updated quick enough. When my mum (aged 68) got her letter just over two weeks ago, the website at the time still said only those 70 and over could book their vaccinations. However the website allowed us to book both her first and second vaccinations with no issues.

 

[Mag_seven]

They duly attended one of the main hubs and found it very quiet with the staff complaining that not enough people were signing up!

I find that annoying - we should be going hell for leather in getting these vaccinations done.

Apparently my GP will text me telling me when I should apply, but on checking my details with "Patient Access" it turns out they have the wrong mobile phone number for me. Surely they should be emailing and phoning as well?

 

[DB]

Everyone should wait their turn, let's get the vaccine out to those who need it most. Then those that don't can choose to have it, or not.

It's looking increasingly like everyone will be bullied into having it, whether they want it or not. The news in the past few days that what's effectively a vaccine passport is being added to the NHS app makes that pretty clear.

I do not intend to have it if at all possible. Yes, I'm sure I will be treated like I am filthy scum and as an enemy of society, but I've had that with masks since last summer so getting used to it now. If the government wants to make people feel that they are not welcome in society it shouldn't surprised if they then become increasingly opposed to doing what society wants.

 

[RomeoCharlie71]

I do not intend to have it if at all possible. Yes, I'm sure I will be treated like I am filthy scum and as an enemy of society, but I've had that with masks since last summer so getting used to it now. If the government wants to make people feel that they are not welcome in society it shouldn't surprised if they then become increasingly opposed to doing what society wants.

I honestly couldn't care less if people don't get the vaccine. It's their choice - the main purpose of it is that it stops you from getting severely ill. It just so happens it reduces transmission too.

It is the opposite argument from masks - masks are supposedly to help reduce transmission and stop you passing the virus on, whereas the vaccine stops you from getting severely ill (or not knowing you have it at all). People can't seem to comprehend that.

 

[birchesgreen]

It's looking increasingly like everyone will be bullied into having it, whether they want it or not. The news in the past few days that what's effectively a vaccine passport is being added to the NHS app makes that pretty clear.

I do not intend to have it if at all possible. Yes, I'm sure I will be treated like I am filthy scum and as an enemy of society, but I've had that with masks since last summer so getting used to it now. If the government wants to make people feel that they are not welcome in society it shouldn't surprised if they then become increasingly opposed to doing what society wants.

Why don't you want it, for interest I'm not judging you either way, just interested in your reason.

 

[DB]

I honestly couldn't care less if people don't get the vaccine. It's their choice - the main purpose of it is that it stops you from getting severely ill. It just so happens it reduces transmission too.

It is the opposite argument from masks - masks are supposedly to help reduce transmission and stop you passing the virus on, whereas the vaccine stops you from getting severely ill (or not knowing you have it at all). People can't seem to comprehend that.

It's also the case though that people under 50 in reasonable health are at low risk of getting seriously ill anyway.

 

[yorkie]

From another thread:

For us depends on how Vaccines and Variants have gone/developed

So far the vaccination progress is on course, and exceeding expectations. We should be approaching the end of the period where a lack of supplies may be an issue and we should soon be able to increase capacity even further (though admittedly this is needed just to keep increasing the number of people with a first dose at the same rate, given the need to start administering second doses)

As for variants, this is really a red herring as any new variants are not going to cause much of a dent in immunity to cause signifnicaly more severe disease or deaths any time soon. This virus is not like influenza; it mutates at a much slower rate and any mutations cannot evade T cell immunity and they also do not evade most antibodies, just some.

A family friend works in Care and an Asymptomatic Agency worker brought the virus in 1 week after vaccines had been given - 3 dead.

It takes at least 14 days for any immunity to build up and at least 21 days for elderly people to build up good immunity.

Vaccines massively reduce transmission but do not completely stop people being infected; they do enable the body to robustly and rapidly fight any infection but some elderly people may not always be in a fit state to fight any virus.

Looking at the timescales for Jabs not sure the mad dash to reopen railways in early April is right either, it may be legally permissible from a technical perspective but morally?

It is morally wrong that we are opening up so slowly in my opinion!

 

[Chester1]

It's also the case though that people under 50 in reasonable health are at low risk of getting seriously ill anyway.

Which made the choice about simplicity vs targeting. Its not really about the number of deaths once 9 priority groups are done, its about reducing transmission. The UK public sector isn't good at handling complexity and ring fencing various proffessions will be trickier than it appears at first glance. Age and ring fencing people based on NHS records (i.e. employment for NHS or affiliated care homes etc and by health records) has worked very well so far.

 

[LAX54]

In the papers today...80% (Eighty percent) of the AZ vaccine in Mainland Europe is unused ! seems they do not trust the AZ vaccine, yet all that fuss they made about the UK not letting them have their fair share !