Vaccine Progress, Approval, and Deployment

[HSTEd]

The cost of the vaccines expended to vaccinate all the 14-18 year olds is negligible.
It might be overkill, but there is no kill like overkill.


The vaccine must flow!

 

[Bantamzen]

The cost of the vaccines expended to vaccinate all the 14-18 year olds is negligible.
It might be overkill, but there is no kill like overkill.


The vaccine must flow!

Spoken like a large Pharmaceutical company given licence to print money.....

 

[Jamiescott1]

I have my first dose today but will be abroad for the 4 week period from 9 weeks time so unless I can get my 2nd dose in 8 weeks then there will be at least a 13 week gap between doses

 

[nlogax]

My understanding is the 14-17 age group tends to mix more (options groups at schools, general going out etc) than younger children. Becoming ill isn’t the worry, but carrying and spreading virus to others is the concern.

Wouldn't the stats ramifications of school kids mixing already have been seen since they went back into classrooms in March? There were small plateaus in certain case figures as school-centered mass testing numbers skyrocketed but from what I could tell they didn't last long.

 

[Dent]

My understanding is the 14-17 age group tends to mix more (options groups at schools, general going out etc) than younger children. Becoming ill isn’t the worry, but carrying and spreading virus to others is the concern.

Not really an issue if everyone vulnerable has been vaccinated, which they will have been by the time it gets to the 14-17 age group anyway.

Having a cut off at 18th birthday is rather arbitrary if compare risks and effects of a 17 year old vs 18 year old.

Why is 14 any less arbitrary than 18?

 

[HSTEd]

Wouldn't the stats ramifications of school kids mixing already have been seen since they went back into classrooms in March? There were small plateaus in certain case figures as school-centered mass testing numbers skyrocketed but from what I could tell they didn't last long.

Schools were hardly back to normal however

 

[nlogax]

Schools were hardly back to normal however

Fair point. I'm not exactly up to speed on the schools side of things.

 

[kristiang85]

I've just been invited for my first dose - so they must be starting mid 30s age group now.

 

[PeterC]

Why is 14 any less arbitrary than 18?

Children develop and adults age at different rates so any cutoff will be arbitrary.

I would guess that they are looking for the point where most young people have been through puberty. Thinking back to my own, far distant, school days this would probably fall some time during the 4th form for boys (year 10 in new money) and a little earlier for girls.

 

[JonathanH]

I've just been invited for my first dose - so they must be starting mid 30s age group now.

It is likely to depend on local supply.

I suspect that different areas have different demographic profiles that don't necessarily match the allocation of vaccine doses so some people in their 30s are being invited in one area where people in their 40s haven't been (locally) invited in others. Obviously anyone over 40 can apply through the Central NHS booking arrangements but there may be nowhere convenient in some areas.

 

[Yew]

My understanding is the 14-17 age group tends to mix more (options groups at schools, general going out etc) than younger children. Becoming ill isn’t the worry, but carrying and spreading virus to others is the concern.

Having a cut off at 18th birthday is rather arbitrary if compare risks and effects of a 17 year old vs 18 year old.

But a very very minor effect when compared to the number of lives saved per vaccine dose if it is given to vulnerable people in other countries.

The cost of the vaccines expended to vaccinate all the 14-18 year olds is negligible.
It might be overkill, but there is no kill like overkill.


The vaccine must flow!

Perhaps the cost is low; but the opportunity cost, when there are people in vulnerable groups in other countries that are not yet vaccinated, is high.

 

[takno]

My understanding is the 14-17 age group tends to mix more (options groups at schools, general going out etc) than younger children. Becoming ill isn’t the worry, but carrying and spreading virus to others is the concern.

Having a cut off at 18th birthday is rather arbitrary if compare risks and effects of a 17 year old vs 18 year old.

It is an arbitrary cut-off, but then an age-based cut-off is going to be arbitrary wherever you put it. You might as well make the cut-off 28, or even 38 for all the actual good the vaccines will once the vulnerable groups are vaccinated.

 

[Richard Scott]

My understanding is the 14-17 age group tends to mix more (options groups at schools, general going out etc) than younger children. Becoming ill isn’t the worry, but carrying and spreading virus to others is the concern.

Why is this a concern? Haven't all the vulnerable had the chance to have a vaccination now? Therefore this is a non issue although sure the politicians would like to make it one. Before someone points out not all vulnerable have had the vaccine, they gave had the chance. If they choose not to that's their choice but our lives shouldn't revolve around that.

 

[cuccir]

Why is this a concern? Haven't all the vulnerable had the chance to have a vaccination now? Therefore this is a non issue although sure the politicians would like to make it one. Before someone points out not all vulnerable have had the vaccine, they gave had the chance. If they choose not to that's their choice but our lives shouldn't revolve around that.

At current rates, the vaccination programme is only likely to squeeze us above herd immunity. Adding in teenagers is our headroom: it's the best protection against more transmissible variants, for example, or against 'vaccine fatigue' that may come with booster shots in the autumn.

Effectively, it'd be our immunity equivalent of 'rainy day savings'.

 

[takno]

At current rates, the vaccination programme is only likely to squeeze us above herd immunity. Adding in teenagers is our headroom: it's the best protection against more transmissible variants, for example, or against 'vaccine fatigue' that may come with booster shots in the autumn.

Effectively, it'd be our immunity equivalent of 'rainy day savings'.

Herd immunity is not required. Giving kids medical treatment they don't need in support of an epidemiologists checkbox exercise is unconscionable.

 

[35B]

Herd immunity is not required. Giving kids medical treatment they don't need in support of an epidemiologists checkbox exercise is unconscionable.

Vaccines are there to prevent disease, not treat it, and the benefits from a vaccination programme are not limited to the individual receiving it, but need to be considered more widely. If a vaccine is safe in a child, and the effect of increasing the total level of vaccination in the population will be to limit further the spread of the disease it protects against, then I do not see any ethical issue in providing that vaccine, and would willingly consent for my children to receive that vaccine.

Specifically in respect of Covid vaccines in the UK, there are reasonable questions to be asked regarding the longevity of the vaccine's effect, and the relative value of vaccinating British children with still relatively scarce vaccines compared to providing vaccines to other countries. I would therefore have questions about the introduction of child vaccinations as a policy measure.

 

[Darandio]

Now two weeks into being eligible and the online service still won't offer me anything within 40 miles. When mentioning it yesterday during an unrelated call, the GP surgery also refuse point blank to talk about it and say I may get a call from them in the future.

Interestingly I (stupidly) mentioned this on social media yesterday and received more than one response suggesting I was selfish for not travelling a great distance for the vaccine and that I should think of others. I've effectively given up over a year for these people and because I won't travel a great distance at my own expense, i'm the selfish one? Strange attitudes in strange times.

 

[Mag_seven]

Interestingly I (stupidly) mentioned this on social media yesterday and received more than one response suggesting I was selfish for not travelling a great distance for the vaccine and that I should think of others.

Yet they would probably castigate you for travelling a great distance for anything else!

 

[Darandio]

Yet they would probably castigate you for travelling a great distance for anything else!

How true!

 

[cuccir]

Herd immunity is not required. Giving kids medical treatment they don't need in support of an epidemiologists checkbox exercise is unconscionable.

Both the terms 'required' and 'need' really depend on priorities and levels of risk, but (vaccine-induced) herd immunity is certainly beneficial for all whole range of reasons, from the sentimental (lives lost) to the hard-heartedly economic (working days lost), and more or less everything in-between. It's not a matter of 'epidemiological checkboxes'.

As said, vaccines aren't treatment, they're preventative medicine. And of course it will bring direct benefits to the individuals too, through potential prevention of mild-infection through to protection of family members (including the vaccinated, a percentage of whom will get the disease, but the more that are vaccinated the fewer that will be).

Of course all this should be said in the context where vaccines shouldn't be mandatory, nor required to access services etc.

 

[davews]

Our local (large) GP run centre is totally separate from the NHS booking system. I could only get appointments in Slough via NHS website. In the end I managed to find the phone number of the local site and booked direct there. Second jab due on Friday.

 

[TravelDream]

Now two weeks into being eligible and the online service still won't offer me anything within 40 miles. When mentioning it yesterday during an unrelated call, the GP surgery also refuse point blank to talk about it and say I may get a call from them in the future.

I get how frustrated you feel.

Here in Wales, there's no online or phone booking and people have to wait to be contacted.

It feels like a bit of a mess though.

I know one person 23 with no health conditions/ reason to be a priority who has had his vaccine. I personally know about a dozen in their 20s who've had it too. My cousin who's 28 had it yesterday and said it was a bit like a school reunion at the vaccine centre. His brother is 33 and lives on the same estate as him and is registered with the same doctor hasn't heard a thing.

I know a lot of people in their 30s, like him and me, who haven't heard a thing about an appointment. I called the health board to ask why. They said I should just wait for my letter and they are only taking phone bookings for people aged 50+ and priority groups.

I'm on the reserve list and checked with my GP has the right address and gave them my mobile phone number too. At the same time, the local health board is complaining on Facebook about people not turning up for appointments.

It's annoying.

 

[jfollows]

I'm on the reserve list and checked with my GP has the right address and gave them my mobile phone number too. At the same time, the local health board is complaining on Facebook about people not turning up for appointments.

It's annoying.

I had my first and second vaccination on time.
My partner follows me because he's younger; for the first vaccination he got a text message but the name they used for him was totally wrong, he rang up and booked an appointment.
Today he got a slightly snotty "if you don't book your appointment for your second vaccination then it won't be possible after Thursday" so he rang up (again) and booked an appointment for Thursday. In other words, he never received the initial invitation to book the appointment and only because of the snotty message did he ring up - the GP's Web site is explicitly clear that you shouldn't ring them up but should always wait to be contacted.
Bottom line is that it's worked in the end, but something a bit incompetent is going on with him. Oh well. The GP's receptionist essentially implied that he'd deleted the invitation without reading it, which of course he didn't. But he controlled his annoyance with her attitude ......

 

[TravelDream]

I had my first and second vaccination on time.
My partner follows me because he's younger; for the first vaccination he got a text message but the name they used for him was totally wrong, he rang up and booked an appointment.
Today he got a slightly snotty "if you don't book your appointment for your second vaccination then it won't be possible after Thursday" so he rang up (again) and booked an appointment for Thursday. In other words, he never received the initial invitation to book the appointment and only because of the snotty message did he ring up - the GP's Web site is explicitly clear that you shouldn't ring them up but should always wait to be contacted.
Bottom line is that it's worked in the end, but something a bit incompetent is going on with him. Oh well. The GP's receptionist essentially implied that he'd deleted the invitation without reading it, which of course he didn't. But he controlled his annoyance with her attitude ......

My GP is the same. They say they don't handle vaccine appointments and everything is done though the local health board. I phoned though to check my address (I moved a couple of years ago and have no idea if I had informed them) and give them my mobile number and they were fine with that.
I messaged the health board on Facebook, and they said to call a number. When I called it, they said just wait and they are only dealing with people 50+/ priority groups on the phone.

What's frustrating is I know people almost a decade younger than me who've been vaccinated through regular channels and I haven't heard a thing.

 

[DannyMich2018]

People in England aged 38 and 39 will from tomorrow be invited to book a Covid Vaccination, that means me!! Possibly have it before 29th May when I go away for a week but if not it be after.
My partners best friend had his yesterday and he was 40 last December and my friend who is late 50s had her 2nd today so we are doing really well now. Another friend who is 48 had his last Thursday so just be my nephew who is 18 to do now as most of my friends, family and colleagues have had at least one vaccination now.

 

[pitdiver]

My wife had her second dose today. She had to queue up for an hour and 10 mins before being jabbed. On top of that she remarked that it actually hurt unlike the first dose which she said she didn't feel a thing. Todays dose was administered by a nurse her first by a firefighter. I get my second dose on Saturday. I have told Mrs PD that if it looks like I am having to queue up for any length of time I am not going to bother. My first dose was done in about 20 mins and that included 15 mins rest afterwards.

 

[Ediswan]

If it helps anybody, Herts and West Essex are offering a walk-in service to those aged 40 and over:
https://covid.healthierfuture.org.uk/vaccination-walk-times-40-year-olds-10-16-may-2021

Vaccination walk-in times for 40+ year olds 10 - 16 May 2021​

According to the local paper, have your NHS number or some ID.

 

[Simon11]

I get how frustrated you feel.

Here in Wales, there's no online or phone booking and people have to wait to be contacted.

It feels like a bit of a mess though.

I know one person 23 with no health conditions/ reason to be a priority who has had his vaccine. I personally know about a dozen in their 20s who've had it too. My cousin who's 28 had it yesterday and said it was a bit like a school reunion at the vaccine centre. His brother is 33 and lives on the same estate as him and is registered with the same doctor hasn't heard a thing.

I know a lot of people in their 30s, like him and me, who haven't heard a thing about an appointment. I called the health board to ask why. They said I should just wait for my letter and they are only taking phone bookings for people aged 50+ and priority groups.

I'm on the reserve list and checked with my GP has the right address and gave them my mobile phone number too. At the same time, the local health board is complaining on Facebook about people not turning up for appointments.

It's annoying.

Agree, I also know several people mid 20s in Wales and Midlands who have been given the vaccine without any health issues while myself (age 32) and other people around London my age have not.

There is nothing wrong with some areas going slightly quicker by a step of two, however if they go too fast there should be a pause so other areas trying to catch up can have more supply.

 

[Silver Cobra]

If it helps anybody, Herts and West Essex are offering a walk-in service to those aged 40 and over:
https://covid.healthierfuture.org.uk/vaccination-walk-times-40-year-olds-10-16-may-2021

According to the local paper, have your NHS number or some ID.

BBC Three Counties Radio confirmed during it’s 5:30pm news bulletin that Bedford Borough, Central Bedfordshire and Milton Keynes are also joining this same scheme.

 

[YorkshireBear]

Agree, I also know several people mid 20s in Wales and Midlands who have been given the vaccine without any health issues while myself (age 32) and other people around London my age have not.

There is nothing wrong with some areas going slightly quicker by a step of two, however if they go too fast there should be a pause so other areas trying to catch up can have more supply.

Didn't some parts of Wales start giving Pfizer to under 30s due to the restrictions on AZ and then gave AZ in the normal order. THink that is why Wales keeps getting mentioned for those in their 20s.