VIA fleet renewal - at last!

[williamn]

VIA just received funding to replace their ageing fleet on 'Corridor' services between major cities in Quebec and Ontario.

http://www.viarail.ca/en/about-via-rail/fleet-renewal

It is expected that by 2022, we will be welcoming Canadians on board a brand new set of trains. Our current fleet, reaching the end of its useful life, has served us well over the past 35 years, but it is now time to modernize ensuring safer, faster, more frequent, more accessible and an environmentally-friendly service. With the introduction of new trains, VIA Rail can offer a better travel experience with more comfortable cars that are better adapted and more accessible to people with reduced mobility – not to mention greener.

 

[hexagon789]

VIA just received funding to replace their ageing fleet on 'Corridor' services between major cities in Quebec and Ontario.

http://www.viarail.ca/en/about-via-rail/fleet-renewal

Interesting, certainly the LRC coaches are getting on a bit. I presume that VIA will go for new push-pull coaching stock to operate with the P42DCs (are these even push-pull capable) rather than DMUs.

Either way it's a bit of a surprise considering the heavy cuts and service reductions to VIA Rail in recent years. Hopefully the next step is to return to pre-2012 service levels or at least increase service frequency on "The Corridor".

 

[williamn]

I think the current Liberal government is a little more train friendly than its predecessor. What isn't clear to me is whether LRC or HEP cars are being replaced. Some of the HEP cars are truly ancient. It would make sense if LRC'S are displaced by the new trains and are then cascaded to replaced HEPS.

It would be great to see some service increases West of Toronto, where service is really threadbare.

 

[hexagon789]

I think the current Liberal government is a little more train friendly than its predecessor. What isn't clear to me is whether LRC or HEP cars are being replaced. Some of the HEP cars are truly ancient. It would make sense if LEPS are displaced by the new trains and are then cascaded to replaced HEPS.

It would be great to see some service increases West of Toronto, where service is really threadbare.

You would think the HEP cars, some of which must be 60 (?) years old by now, would be the ones getting replaced. However, I took it from the page in the link, not that it says as such, that the new stock would be for the more 'premier', if you like, services and thus would replace the LRC vehicles.

I wonder if the new stock will be allowed 100 mph as the LRCs are, or limited to 95 as everything else is.

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

About time as well!!!! Was seriously chizzed with the current stock. I remember being stuck on the VIA Rail Corridor service between Toronto and Windsor for an hour thanks to delays. I believe Atomic Kitten’s Natasha Hamilton was also on that train IIRC. They need to replace the LRC-2 and LRC-3 locomotives most of all. So rattley.

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

Go Transit could do with a polishing too!

 

[STEVIEBOY1]

I travelled on the Rocky Mountaineer and the VIA Rail Skeena train, both seemed to be using quite old stock, but very comfy though. I liked the Skeena Lounge / dome car at the back. (I wonder if both services still use those carriages, I think perhaps the double deckers on the Rocky Mountaineer are quite new)

 

[hexagon789]

They need to replace the LRC-2 and LRC-3 locomotives most of all. So rattley

I thought the LRC locos were withdrawn from regular service in about 2001-02, or am I getting mixed up with something else?

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

I thought the LRC locos were withdrawn from regular service in about 2001-02, or am I getting mixed up with something else?

So did I, until I’m pretty sure in 2015 I was on a train near Montreal and it went through Barrinton and in one of the platforms one was there. I assumed they were re-introducing some? I could swear I’ve seen their carriages in use too...

 

[xotGD]

A couple of years back I used the service Toronto - Ottawa then Ottawa - Montreal. I thought it was excellent. Sorry I have no idea of the type of locomotives or coaching stock.

 

[williamn]

The LRC locos are all withdrawn but the carriages are still in service. Like a Mk3, while they're getting on (about the same age I think), they still look pretty good inside and out and are currently being refurbished (with bi-directional seating which people here seem to be unable to cope with!)

 

[northwichcat]

A couple of years back I used the service Toronto - Ottawa then Ottawa - Montreal. I thought it was excellent. Sorry I have no idea of the type of locomotives or coaching stock.

I used the Montreal to Toronto service in 2016 and the thing that stood out most was the business class carriages were a different type to the standard class carriages.

 

[hexagon789]

The LRC locos are all withdrawn but the carriages are still in service. Like a Mk3, while they're getting on (about the same age I think), they still look pretty good inside and out and are currently being refurbished (with bi-directional seating which people here seem to be unable to cope with!)

I thought the locos had gone but knew the coaches were still in service. I think a few LRC locos have been preserved though? Shame they were never all that reliable, they look pretty good in my opinion.

 

[hexagon789]

I used the Montreal to Toronto service in 2016 and the thing that stood out most was the business class carriages were a different type to the standard class carriages.

I think most "Corridor" services are P42DCs hauling usually 3-6 LRC cars one of which is a Business/Galley car. But there do appear to be services worked by F40PHs and/or HEP cars. I have also seen some Corridor services worked by mixed HEP/LRC rakes, including 4 Economy LRCs and one HEP Business/Galley car, the troutlet with this is only P42DCs plus full LRC rakes can run at 100, though I don't imagine 95 mph running will affect the schedules much. The afternoon Sarnia train back when there were more than one such service per day, seemed to be regularly formed of an F40PH hauling one economy LRC car and one HEP Business car.

 

[hexagon789]

The LRC locos are all withdrawn but the carriages are still in service. Like a Mk3, while they're getting on (about the same age I think), they still look pretty good inside and out and are currently being refurbished (with bi-directional seating which people here seem to be unable to cope with!)

I had thought the LRC locos had been withdrawn, but I knew the coaches were still in use. I believe that a few LRC locos have been preserved though? Shame they were never all that reliable, I always liked the look of them.

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

Is it just the main corridor services? I never really found the Ocean reliable, though it’s been a while. Quite old fashioned. Park cars getting old too.

 

[williamn]

There is a huge step down in terms of interiors from the LRCs to the HEPs so I always check before traveling which it is! Many of the trains west of Toronto are formed using a mix or solely of HEPs.

 

[TheAdelante]

I used the Montreal to Toronto service in 2016 and the thing that stood out most was the business class carriages were a different type to the standard class carriages.

Hi.

Most likely to have been LRC cars or HEP cars perhaps?

 

[Ianigsy]

I travelled Montreal-Toronto-Ottawa-Montreal in business class last year. In fact I still have my Hockey News from the lounge at Ottawa!

I think the main thing that VIA will have to address is accessibility- business class is quite popular with overseas tourists but the coaching stock didn't really seem to be set up for suitcases. On direct trains between Montreal and Toronto you can check your luggage into the baggage car, but not to or from Ottawa, so you end up with train crew helping you manhandle your case on board.

 

[hexagon789]

There is a huge step down in terms of interiors from the LRCs to the HEPs so I always check before travelling which it is! Many of the trains west of Toronto are formed using a mix or solely of HEPs.

I know exactly what you mean, the interiors of the HEPs used in Corridor services seem to be very much in need of a refurbishment.

 

[williamn]

Re accessibility I believe high level platforms are being introduced at many stations (Montreal already has them). I have no idea why these are such a rarity in North America!

 

[hexagon789]

Re accessibility I believe high level platforms are being introduced at many stations (Montreal already has them). I have no idea why these are such a rarity in North America!

Can't say I'd noticed the height of platforms in the US and Canada, but I've definitely noticed how low platforms often are in Europe compared to Britain and Ireland.

 

[k-c-p]

I think the main thing that VIA will have to address is accessibility- business class is quite popular with overseas tourists but the coaching stock didn't really seem to be set up for suitcases. On direct trains between Montreal and Toronto you can check your luggage into the baggage car, but not to or from Ottawa, so you end up with train crew helping you manhandle your case on board.

I travelled along the Corridor for three weeks last year. On an Ottawa-Montreal train I was asked to check my bag. Rolling stock was a Renaissance car - these do not have that much storage space indeed.

I never really found the Ocean reliable, though it’s been a while. Quite old fashioned. Park cars getting old too.

I rode the Ocean from Quebéc City to Halifax (not in sleeper class). It was formed of Renaissance cars and we arrived in Halifax with a delay of 30min (not bad for a 19h trip) - I had worse delays on some Corridor trips.

The most comfy seats were on the Toronto-Niagara Fall trip. The train was formed of Amtrak rolling stock.

To be a viable transporatation alternative Via needs to expand the service frequencies and improve ontime performance: Of my 10 trips none was on time - delays varied between 10 and 90min.

I put some pictures of the trip here (shamless self plug ):
https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/eastern-canada-by-rail-with-pics.144743/

Cheers
Charly

 

[ac6000cw]

Interesting, certainly the LRC coaches are getting on a bit. I presume that VIA will go for new push-pull coaching stock to operate with the P42DCs (are these even push-pull capable) rather than DMUs.

According to the info on the VIA website - http://www.viarail.ca/en/about-via-rail/fleet-renewal - it says they must be Tier-4 emissions compliant, which rules out using existing P42DCs:

More fuel-efficient, Tier 4 Diesel engines, with the option to operate on electrified rail infrastructure as it becomes available.

So possibly some form of bi-mode DMU/EMU, or push-pull loco hauled (a Tier-4 capable version of the bi-mode Bombardier ALP-45DP loco might be a possibility, I guess, especially as there are some already operating in commuter service around Montreal).

 

[hexagon789]

So possibly some form of bi-mode DMU/EMU, or push-pull loco hauled (a Tier-4 capable version of the bi-mode Bombardier ALP-45DP loco might be a possibility, I guess, especially as there are some already operating in commuter service around Montreal).

A bi-mode would certainly seem to be the popular choice right now, hopefully they go for something with a bit more grunt than an IEP on diesel-mode though!

 

[MarcVD]

Wouldn't the stock built for Brightline fit perfectly ?

 

[ac6000cw]

Yes, probably, but that is being constructed by Siemens in Sacramento, CA, USA - and the Trump administration seems keen on starting a trade war which might well affect Canada. So I suspect that politically *not* buying from the US might go down well...especially as Bombardier is Canadian, and they could easily supply the rolling stock (they build hauled passenger cars in Canada - used all over North America on commuter rail systems, and the European part of it could supply DMUs, EMUs and locomotives e.g. the ALP-45DPs are built in Kassel, Germany).

 

[jamesontheroad]

From this article in the National Post:

In press materials released after the budget, Via says it expects the new trains will be operating by 2022. The company wants 32 train sets with 9,100 passenger seats, and fuel-efficient diesel engines that can be adapted for electrified rail infrastructure should it become available. The trains would be “push-pull,” meaning they wouldn’t need to turn around at stations before running in the opposite direction, as they currently do. ​

Based on the rather precise number of 9,100 passenger seats, my back-of-an-envelope maths suggest an order in the region of 150 train cars, and the readiness for electric power infrastructure suggests bi-mode diesel-electric locos. It will be interesting to see what Bombardier proposes. They certainly have designs for North American locomotives ready to go, but I'm not sure about intercity passenger coaches.

For those who don't know the Corridor, or who've only used it once or twice, it can be helpful to remember that no trains go all the way from end to end, and three different fleets generally don't stray far from their usual duties.

With some exceptions, the oldest (1947-53) HEP2 coaches generally stay south and west of Toronto. The LRC (1981-4) coaches generally stay between Toronto, Ottawa and Montréal, and the ex-Nightstar Renaissance (in service from 2002) coaches generally stay between Québec City and Montréal. As I say, there are exceptions to this pattern and you do occasionally get very odd looking sets with a mix of LRC and HEP2 cars.

(Note - the long distance stainless steel fleet is classified HEP1 by VIA. The carriages are similar to HEP2 but the fleets are not mixed between long distance and Corridor services).

Most Québec City - Montréal trains continue to/from Ottawa, but no trains between Toronto and Montréal continue to Québec City. As far as I remember, nothing originating south or west of Toronto continues north-east. These general pattens reflect the nature of the Corridor as not a single spine with big flows along its whole length, but a series of routes that happen to join up but which generally carry traffic in and out of the three big cities of Toronto, Ottawa and Montréal.

 

[jamesontheroad]

Quick PS. I forgot about the Intercity coaches Bombardier built for SNCB in Belgium... they're designed to accommodate low platforms. How about a rake of them and a variant of the ALP45DP?

 

[hexagon789]

Any word on the top speed of the new stock? Are they looking for 125 mph design speed or just 100 or even 95 mph considering only LRC stock can run at 100?