Victoria Line Summer Closure

[Ianno87]

I tried my alternative route to work this morning.

Bus 123 to Turnpike Line and then the Piccadilly Line (to Kings Cross)

Only about 10 minutes longer than normal, although that was at 6am.

At Clapton, you should be able to stop some trains (eg from Hertford East or Bishops Stortford) to compensate.

Remember that a good proportion of people on Stortford/Hertford trains will ordinarily alight at Tottenham Hale for the Victoria Line - which obviously they wouldn't be able to do during the blockade. So those trains will already be much fuller than usual south of Tottenham Hale as they pass through Clapton, so stopping might not be an option on those grounds (they've often normally pretty wedged north of Tottenham Hale from the likes of Ponders End).

 

[Mojo]

Although that's not actually what the staff brieflng said last time I looked at it.

What briefing, and what does it say? This is from the Timetable Notice.

 

[Deerfold]

What briefing, and what does it say? This is from the Timetable Notice.

The document I read on the LUL intranet claimed peak trains would run every 2.25 seconds.

 

[jon0844]

If you're aiming for Cheshunt, surely from Hatfield it would be quicker still to take the 724 to Ware or 641 to Broxbourne and then get the train from there?

The 641 takes years. It stops for a long time at Hertford and goes the scenic route. 724, perhaps.

I did actually take a 641 recently to Hoddesdon and it was over an hour, but I was surprised that it cost just £4 (single).

I could potentially do it for the blockade but not any other time. I'd go mad!

 

[Be3G]

Of course, a long journey involving one or more changes such as Hatfield to Cheshunt is also a perfect excuse to use one of the (few) good things about Hertfordshire's bus services: the Explorer ticket.

 

[jon0844]

The document I read on the LUL intranet claimed peak trains would run every 2.25 seconds.

Then you can understand people boarding when the hustle alarm is on.
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Of course, a long journey involving one or more changes such as Hatfield to Cheshunt is also a perfect excuse to use one of the (few) good things about Hertfordshire's bus services: the Explorer ticket.

I can do it with just one bus, and a train one stop from Broxbourne (the latter costing £1 each way) but it's just too slow, and not very frequent. Given Uno buses can and do run early still (indeed the 641 I too left the depot early and my ticket was timed before it was due to start!) that's another reason I'd not trust it.

 

[duncanp]

I see that the replacement buses are going to start from the station car park, go up Hoe Street as far as The Bell, and then turn left on to Forest Road.

If they went down Selborne Road, South Grove, St James Street and Blackhorse Road, they could pick up people who are unable to get on the train at St James Street because it is exit only.

When the Victoria Line has been closed at weekends in the past, this is the way that the buses have taken, so is there a reason why this is not being done this time?

Otherwise people from St James Street are expected to take the bus to Leyton, which you are being advised to avoid at peak times because it is exceptionally busy.
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And the useless TfL Journey planner directs you to go to stop B in Seven Sisters Road to pick up the replacement bus, whereas they are actually leaving from Stop H in Tottenham High Road.

 

[Be3G]

Otherwise people from St James Street are expected to take the bus to Leyton, which you are being advised to avoid at peak times because it is exceptionally busy.

As far as I'm aware, St. James Street passengers are being told to catch the rail replacement bus to Stratford, not Leyton (in fact, is it even calling at Leyton?).

 

[34D]

What will the ticketing arrangements be for RRB A and B?

When I've been on weekend closures, it's either been touch in at the station and come back, or (more usually) noone bothered.

Would be interesting to know whether one can touch in on the bus or not.

I guess a ticket (or sufficient credit) will be needed for tube zone 3?

 

[Busaholic]

The document I read on the LUL intranet claimed peak trains would run every 2.25 seconds.

I think that's the headway on the proposed Oxford Street tram.

 

[plcd1]

As far as I'm aware, St. James Street passengers are being told to catch the rail replacement bus to Stratford, not Leyton (in fact, is it even calling at Leyton?).

Depending on what info you read you get varying stories. From what I've been able to ascertain the following will happen.

RRS A - as described in an earlier post and running via the Bell Corner. This is the only daily RRS.

RRS B - from WWCS, Selborne Rd, Markhouse Rd (where it has a stop) then I'm guessing it's going via Lea Bridge Rd, Orient Way, Ruckholt Rd then through the Olympic Park to Stratford Int and Stratford City. Despite what TfL Realtime info is saying this is a M-F service. Doesn't run via Leyton Stn.

58 - apparently will have MF peak extras WWCS to Leyton Station. This is on the TfL Bus Service change document but NOT on any of the leaflets about the Blockade arrangements. :roll:
97 - MF peak extras WWCS to Stratford City
158 - MF peak extras from St James St Stn (I assume this means Markhouse Rd as with RRS B) to Stratford.
558 - MF full day service Chingford Mount to BHR (all stops) then as RRS A to Seven Sisters.

I suspect TfL are trying desperately hard to avoid people overloading the Overground at Walthamstow Central even though that's what they'll do simply because it's the fastest route.

I think they are not running RRS "A" via St James St because they want to avoid overloading Seven Sisters Station where I suspect people will be queuing out to the street in the AM peak. The emphasis is on getting a lot of people to go via Stratford because there are several lines to "take the strain" there compared to a reduced Vic Line service and an already jammed full Overground service.

Having seen a couple of RRS "A" buses today they're very lightly loaded which may be because people are on hols or, more likely, they're overloading the line into Liverpool St. :roll:
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What will the ticketing arrangements be for RRB A and B?

When I've been on weekend closures, it's either been touch in at the station and come back, or (more usually) noone bothered.

Would be interesting to know whether one can touch in on the bus or not.

I guess a ticket (or sufficient credit) will be needed for tube zone 3?

I have never been a LU RRS where you touch in on the bus. You just get on. You won't be able to validate at a station for RRS "A" because the main stop in Walthamstow is on Hoe St not at the station.

The 558 will be ticketed as a normal TfL bus service and there's no "auto refund" if you touch at Seven Sisters within a fixed time. However if people alight at T Hale from NR and touch in on a 41, 76 and W4 bus and then touch in at Seven Sisters within a fixed time period TfL will refund any PAYG fare. It also works in the reverse direction. TfL are trying to persuade people NOT to use the RRS at T Hale towards Seven Sisters because it doesn't go into the bus station and it's an awkward walk to the stop.

I understand TfL tickets will be accepted on Greater Anglia trains from LST / Stratford to T Hale but not quite sure what they really means given they are already on the TfL farescale and PAYG tariff. :-?

 

[34D]

I have never been a LU RRS where you touch in on the bus. You just get on. You won't be able to validate at a station for RRS "A" because the main stop in Walthamstow is on Hoe St not at the station.

[/QUOTE]

Indeed. Wayfarers taped over.

But the first stop for Bus A _is_ outside Walthamstow Cent, on the up (liverpool st bound) side immediately outside Costa, and then second stop is Hoe St stop G.

 

[duncanp]

I passed through Liverpool Street station yesterday, and there was a signal failure at Harlow Mill causing delays on the Lea Valley line.

I think TfL will be praying that the Network Rail infrastructure behaves itself for the next three weeks.

Signal failure at Hackney Downs during the morning peak ??? That would be fun.
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The Rail Replacement bus service B goes to Stratford International and Stratford City bus station, not the main bus station at the front of Stratford Station.

As the bus serves Stratford International, wouldn't it be a good idea if Travelcards were allowed to be used on the high speed strains between there and St Pancras. That would be a really useful alternative route for people affected by the closure.

Any thoughts about why this hasn't happened. Has is not occurred to TfL, or are South Eastern Trains just being awkward?

 

[Busaholic]

The 558 service is being worked by Metroline and will have 20 double deckers allocated i.e. about 1600 places on board at any one time.

 

[Be3G]

Looking at the timetable of the 558 the PVR would only seem to be about 13/14; does that mean they plan to double-up some peak-hour buses?

 

[Busaholic]

Looking at the timetable of the 558 the PVR would only seem to be about 13/14; does that mean they plan to double-up some peak-hour buses?

I only know that Metroline have been asked to have 20 vehicles available: I guess a couple would be engineering spares. I think TfL are desperately trying to avoid a 'London Bridge' situation with the media, so may have overestimated the bus provision with a view to scaling back as the days go on, without the general public being any the wiser.

 

[Nym]

Or it could be that they're expecting traffic chaos and want to keep to the specified headways by putting the hot spares into play?

 

[duncanp]

I took a 123 bus from Forest Road to Turnpike Lane on Saturday to pick up the Piccadilly Line.

As the bus arrived at Blackhorse Road, a recorded message was played advising people to change here for the replacement bus to Seven Sisters, and a number of people got off, as the route of the 123 through Tottenham Hale means that it now avoid Seven Sisters station completely.

Also, the replacement buses are not serving the bus station at Tottenham Hale, whereas bus routes 123 and 230 are continuing to do so as normal.

I would still be interested to know why people alighting from the replacement bus as Stratford International can't use their travelcards on the High Speed train to St Pancras, just for three weeks.

Are these trains so overcrowded that this is a non starter?
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Also to let everyone know, when the Victoria Line re-opens there are going to be escalator works at Walthamstow Central until the end of April next year.

Only one escalator will be in operation. Between 07:00 and 09:30 Mondays - Fridays it will operate in the down direction, and at all other times it will operate in the up direction.

If you can't use the stairs, you will need to get a bus to and from Blackhorse Road.
So Tfl will be praying that the one working escalator doesn't fail, otherwise they would have to shut the station. I seem to remember this happening a few years ago.

Story is in the Waltham Forest Guardian if anyone wants to read it.

 

[class303]

I got the 6.54 overground from Walthamstow Central to Liverpool St. It was busy but managed to get seat. There were temporary crowd control barriers measures in place, I guess when the platform got overloaded they closed the barriers and made people wait, but I didn't see them closed.

I think exit only at St James street & no calls at Clapton worked well, could have been stupidly busy with many more people attempting to join. Not sure I see the logic in no Northbound stops at Clapton though.

The replacement buses to seven sisters that I saw were busy, but not full. Were reports on Facebook of some people being unable to board at Blackhorse rd though.

Interestingly there were a couple of extra "Unadvertised Ordinary Passenger" services put on. I saw someone claim this on Facebook as well so double checked realtraintimes. The hackney downs terminator seems a strange one though.

http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/F25446/2015/08/10/advanced

http://http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/F25447/2015/08/10/advanced

Not sure if all off-peak Chingfords are 8 carriages, they certainly were not on Saturday and Sunday.

General reports from friends were similar - none of the "chaos" that was expected. If anything there are too many helpers and provisions in place. I can't wait till it's all over though!

 

[duncanp]

Here is a link from early 2000 which shows that Walthamstow Central was closed from 07:00 to 09:30 and 16:00 to 20:00 Monday - Friday because both escalators were out of action at the same time, with replacement buses to and from Blackhorse Road.

https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/uk.transport.london/UiBWH3SQaAc

The escalator works explains they can't start the increased service on the Victoria Line until the end of the work in April

 

[jon0844]

What a fun day I had getting to Cheshunt. Thanks to electrical problems (and/or a broken down train) at Hackney Downs, I got off at Seven Sisters to try LO for the first time - only to find there was no LO!

But waiting around a bit to see what the state of play was at Tottenham Hale (in case trains were out there too), I did see lots of staff on hand to help people. Some people were a bit upset about the lack of LO trains, but nobody got angry with staff.

Indeed the staff were very friendly, and the train driver on the tube had been equally good in giving information (clearly over the PA). It's a shame the train itself gave mixed signals, telling people how to change platforms to carry on their journey - going against what the driver had said (and then had to say again!).

Ultimately, after a lengthy walk from the LO end of the station to the front, then along the road to where the buses stop, I got on a rail replacement bus - which then stopped a lot further on at TOM, rather than stopping in the bus station. All things considered, I'd have probably been better off walking between both stations! Mind you, as there were delays on the Tottenham Hale route, I luckily arrived to walk straight on to a fast Cambridge train - first stop Cheshunt. Result!

But, hey, it's only for a few weeks so no big deal (for me at least). I do wonder if I'll ever actually get to use LO though...

 

[Busaholic]

What a fun day I had getting to Cheshunt. Thanks to electrical problems (and/or a broken down train) at Hackney Downs, I got off at Seven Sisters to try LO for the first time - only to find there was no LO!

But waiting around a bit to see what the state of play was at Tottenham Hale (in case trains were out there too), I did see lots of staff on hand to help people. Some people were a bit upset about the lack of LO trains, but nobody got angry with staff.

Indeed the staff were very friendly, and the train driver on the tube had been equally good in giving information (clearly over the PA). It's a shame the train itself gave mixed signals, telling people how to change platforms to carry on their journey - going against what the driver had said (and then had to say again!).

Ultimately, after a lengthy walk from the LO end of the station to the front, then along the road to where the buses stop, I got on a rail replacement bus - which then stopped a lot further on at TOM, rather than stopping in the bus station. All things considered, I'd have probably been better off walking between both stations! Mind you, as there were delays on the Tottenham Hale route, I luckily arrived to walk straight on to a fast Cambridge train - first stop Cheshunt. Result!

But, hey, it's only for a few weeks so no big deal (for me at least). I do wonder if I'll ever actually get to use LO though...

I'm sure Peter Hendy's comments when he was TfL boss about London Bridge have made sure that TfL have enough trained staff and extra resources to cover most eventualities here, without the media flak.

 

[duncanp]

I think the reason the replacement buses are not stopping in the bus station at Tottenham Hale (in either direction) is to avoid congestion.

My journey home yesterday was quite smooth. I left Kings Cross at 15:53, and went via Liverpool Street and Tottenham Hale, arriving Blackhorse Road at 16:30, so not that bad really.

There wasn't much of a queue at the stop for the replacement buses, and the buses I saw were not that full up either.

 

[plcd1]

I think the reason the replacement buses are not stopping in the bus station at Tottenham Hale (in either direction) is to avoid congestion.

My journey home yesterday was quite smooth. I left Kings Cross at 15:53, and went via Liverpool Street and Tottenham Hale, arriving Blackhorse Road at 16:30, so not that bad really.

There wasn't much of a queue at the stop for the replacement buses, and the buses I saw were not that full up either.

I think you were lucky given the mess that services out of Liverpool St were in for much of the off peak period. Train failures, electrical problems and then some issue at Liv St caused havoc with Cheshunt line services being the main casualty. Seems the priority was to keep Chingford Line services going although several services were cancelled.

Short formations and train failures are still affecting Overground services which can't be doing much for people's patience. I had a brief look at RRS "A" on Monday PM peak and the buses were pretty busy towards Walthamstow but quiet going the other way as you'd expect. There seemed to be a regular flow of buses but because of the mixed fleet of vehicles not all are showing on Countdown. There were problems with Countdown data for the 558 on Monday but that's been sorted out as it has for the extra buses on the 58, 97 and 158. I think RRS "B" isn't showing up at all on Countdown but is apparently very lightly used anyway.

 

[Be3G]

Train failures, electrical problems and then some issue at Liv St caused havoc with Cheshunt line services being the main casualty.

As a Cheshunt line user (Turkey Street is my nearest station) this is something I've observed for many years now. It seems that in the TOCs' eyes, because it's just a half-hourly service it basically means we don't need a service at all so if a train breaks down or whatever reason it is, the Southbury loop is the first to suffer. I concede that we do to a certain extent have the luxury of being within walking distance of other stations (e.g. Enfield Lock for Turkey Street), but that's a 20-minute walk and you can then still find yourself with a half-hour's wait at station no. 2. So not very helpful for getting anywhere quickly.

I think RRS "B" isn't showing up at all on Countdown but is apparently very lightly used anyway.

I'm not surprised at all by that, because anyone who's sat on a 97 from Walthamstow to Stratford will know it can be an agonising journey. Nonetheless I do applaud TfL for providing it as an option.

 

[plcd1]

RRS B

I'm not surprised at all by that, because anyone who's sat on a 97 from Walthamstow to Stratford will know it can be an agonising journey. Nonetheless I do applaud TfL for providing it as an option.

The RRS is going via Selborne Rd, Markhouse Av, Argall Av, Argall Way, Orient Way, Ruckholt Rd, Olympic Park then Stratford Int and Stratford City. I think they run via Markhouse corner on the return leg given how tight Markhouse Av is.

I suspect people wanting Stratford would use RRS "B" if they realised they could get a free, quick ride on a relatively empty bus.

 

[duncanp]

There are a few spare buses parked in the car park at Blackhorse Road Station.

Presumably they are there as relief buses, which could be brought into service, particularly in the am peak, if people are unable to board at Blackhorse Road.

Overall i am pleasantly surprised at the way things are going. Arriving at Seven Sisters, there are plenty of signs and people to direct you to the correct bus stop, and there is always a bus waiting there. sometimes two.

The 558 to Chingford Mount is really useful as well.

 

[Be3G]

The RRS is going via Selborne Rd, Markhouse Av, Argall Av, Argall Way, Orient Way, Ruckholt Rd, Olympic Park then Stratford Int and Stratford City.

Indeed, but this isn't a very well advertised fact so I expect many people will assume as I did when the details of the replacement buses were first announced.

(As an aside, I wish there were regular buses to Stratford via Orient Way, perhaps of the eXpress variety – getting from Chingford to Stratford really takes far longer than it should do by public transport.)

 

[Busaholic]

Indeed, but this isn't a very well advertised fact so I expect many people will assume as I did when the details of the replacement buses were first announced.

(As an aside, I wish there were regular buses to Stratford via Orient Way, perhaps of the eXpress variety – getting from Chingford to Stratford really takes far longer than it should do by public transport.)

Suggest it to TfL - anything going Stratford way seems to be in official favour, maybe even more so if Tessa Jowell becomes Mayor.

 

[duncanp]

I have actually received an e-mail from TfL this morning trying to chivvy people into using RRS B. It says:-

"During the weekday morning peak, we continue to recommend taking replacement bus service B to Stratford for Tube, DLR and Rail connections, for the following reasons:
• Journey times have been about 20 minutes during the morning peak
• It serves only five stops in total
• It takes a route through private roads

The replacement bus service B stops at Walthamstow Central station, Selbourne Road and stop J on Markhouse Road. "

What it doesn't say, of course, is that it serves Stratford International and Stratford City not the main bus station in Stratford. As I have said in previous posts on this thread, if people were allowed to use travelcards and Oyster PAYG on the high speed trains to St Pancras, then more people might be inclined to use the route.

In the longer term, some thought ought to be given to reinstating the curve between the Chingford Line and the Lea Valley line, so that through trains from Chingford to Stratford could operate. As has been said earlier, it takes far too long to get from the North of Waltham Forest to Stratford and Canary Wharf, and reinstating s short piece of track would be at a relatively low cost. Chingford to Stratford trains could serve a newly re-opened Lea Bridge station as well.