Virgin Azuma unveiled & plans for faster journey times

[TheKnightWho]

I searched for an online Japanese dictionary which stated that Azuma means East but also states it archaic, so possibly would confuse a Japanese person as much as someone reading Arthur Conan Doyle in the UK and reading "Watson was arisen by an unexpected ejaculation" (actually meaning someone unexpectedly shouting something!) I don't know as I'm not Japanese but you don't use words which say archaic next to them in everyday conservation.

Actually yes... Japanese seems to have many, many words for east. 15, in fact.

https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/東#Japanese

 

[TH172341]

This could just be a promotional design with additional writing applied as opposed to what will become the norm. The writing underneath the windows in the centre of the cars certainly won't be standard, so that'll become the blank grey. Either way, it looks distinctive and I quite like the Japanese element given to it.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I quite like it as well. Dark window surrounds particularly seem to suit the unit.

I doubt it'll be the final livery, though, there's 2 years until we see them on the rails, loads of time to change their minds.

 

[sarahj]

I don't know if Virgin (or Stagecoach, really) are outright liars, they believe their own PR nonsense, or they're just totally uninformed about a project they've been involved with since they took over the franchise.

The L2E4 project which is all about getting more services between London and Edinburgh in 4 hours, not just headline limited stop services, but many services that actually serve stations en route.

140mph running on the ECML has already been well investigated by British Rail, Railtrack and now Network Rail. We all know what we need to do - S&T need to get ETCS Level 2 working on the ground, we need to get a 140mph catenary system capable of supporting 2 pantographs working 4.7 metres above it, and there will need some track layout and geometry changes.

We have already done pantograph testing and modelling on the ECML OLE, and we did a trial headspan to portal conversion just north of Potters Bar in 2014 which was put in before Virgin Trains had even been awarded the damn franchise.

Furrer and Frey have been working on the small number of necessary modifications to Series 1 to make it work with the mast positions which will be inherited from the Mark 3b install. There's so few twin track cantilevers and the use of the Series 1 TTC won't really be an option as we don't want to have to put in new foundations or masts, so a few additional options are needed as pretty much everything will be converted to a portal structure.

I know you don't like it when I compare our OHLE with other countries, but this picture shows how over head can be made to be more stable at both speeds and in wind.

http://bienenstich.spdns.de/sites/default/files/pictures/1P7A6163.JPG

Note the Y wire between the top wire and the masts, that helps with stablilty, then the tiny cable from the mast to the contact wire holder, that helps with wind stability. It's called a wind protector. While this does not help with the issue of cross spans. (of which they were warned about at the time, We know what we are doing, came back the answer), it could help with upgrading the masts though windy places and be a quick (ish) fix.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

Did the train arrive under its own power? Electric or diesel?
And is the branding repeated down the train, or is it just at the head end?
I can't see the DfT logo being permanent.
What does the kanji on the cab side mean?
It was obviously a joint Virgin/Hitachi/DfT event, not just a Virgin promotional bash.

Thinking about it, this is simply one of the test units, and is probably destined for eventual GWR service.
Presumably the launch is to get some publicity for the Hitachi test runs about to start on the ECML (which are for both routes).
It can't be a VTEC-accepted unit or anything close to it.
The Azuma branding will probably all have to be removed after the tests, and an updated version applied to the production versions.
Meanwhile maybe GWR will apply its branding to the trains on test around Didcot in the autumn.

 

[ScotTrains]

First class looks very boring and plastic. I do wish manufacturers would use softer furnishings eg carpet up the wall and curtains (even if non functional) to give a more elegant appearance in first class. The coaches looks quite open and airy. Personally I would prefer higher seats to give a bit more privacy. Also, It may just be the picture but it doesn't look like there are any tables for two in first class.

 

[sprinterguy]

And is the branding repeated down the train, or is it just at the head end?

It's repeated on each carriage.

Thinking about it, this is simply one of the test units, and is probably destined for eventual GWR service.

The set is 800101, and as such will be accepted as an East Coast set at a later date: Great Western don't have any nine-car 800s on order, just 801s (subject to any changes to accommodate delayed electrification).
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This could just be a promotional design with additional writing applied as opposed to what will become the norm. The writing underneath the windows in the centre of the cars certainly won't be standard, so that'll become the blank grey.

Indeed; I'm expecting this to be a one off promotional livery, and not the standard scheme that will be applied to the fleet in two years time.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Also, It may just be the picture but it doesn't look like there are any tables for two in first class.

There won't be many, but there will be a number of individual seats as shown.

 

[Philip Phlopp]

I know you don't like it when I compare our OHLE with other countries, but this picture shows how over head can be made to be more stable at both speeds and in wind.

http://bienenstich.spdns.de/sites/default/files/pictures/1P7A6163.JPG

Note the Y wire between the top wire and the masts, that helps with stablilty, then the tiny cable from the mast to the contact wire holder, that helps with wind stability. It's called a wind protector. While this does not help with the issue of cross spans. (of which they were warned about at the time, We know what we are doing, came back the answer), it could help with upgrading the masts though windy places and be a quick (ish) fix.

The problem is oscillations of the contact wire resulting in the trailing pantograph in a two train coupled formation having such poor contact they suffer from VCB activation or worse, damage to the OLE occurs, it's a speed related issue and no amount of additional catenary wiring can truly deal with a contact wire than's not under sufficient tension for the job at hand.

HS1 has 22kN tension, compared with 12kN on the ECML (averages), 16.5kN average is the goal for GWML, MML and eventually ECML. The problem for the ECML, as I touched upon earlier, and which rules out wind protectors and additional catenary support is that the headspans can't reliably cope with the extra weight that comes from thicker, heavier contact wire and higher tensions.

There's certainly the possibility of using some of the foreign ideas for quick fixes to deal with wind deflection, but the general problem on the exposed sections of the northern ECML, which is most wind effected, is the idiotic 70m and 80m mast spacing on exposed routes, where 40m to 60m would be more appropriate, but that's because nobody wanted to wire Newcastle to Edinburgh initially, so masts were allocated against work on the southern end of the route and amazingly not used, work north of Newcastle was very cheap because there were so few materials needed. It's for the same reason Waverley is such a mess, and electrification round Edinburgh is so half baked.

Edinburgh to Newcastle, for example, really needs a dramatic increase in the numbers of masts per track km. It's probably making do with 12 to 14 masts per km when it really should have 20 to 24 per km, increase masts and you can increase contact wire weight and tension, which helps in windy conditions.

 

[Tetchytyke]

The original Hitachi mockups looked like cheap plastic junk in a conservative livery.

The Virgin launch train looks like cheap plastic junk daubed in a cheap plastic livery.

It's impossible to tell about the interior because the "photos" were just artistic renders. I fully expect them to be like the Javelin though- cheap plastic junk.

The pocket doors are a good idea, but what isn't so good is sticking seats there with no armrest and no window. Put a luggage rack there and save the criticism.

 

[driver_m]

So you'll accept any livery change, any train name and any primary school design motifs by companies that we are paying millions to every week?

I've drove Lady P (57 307) so yeah! I've driven superman, x men. Yeah. If I sign it and it's safe, I don't care if it looks like a toddler has attacked it with a paint pot. I'll drive it.

If it really bothers you that much then contact your MP. I'm sure they've got nothing better to do.

 

[TH172341]

The original Hitachi mockups looked like cheap plastic junk in a conservative livery.

The Virgin launch train looks like cheap plastic junk daubed in a cheap plastic livery.

It's impossible to tell about the interior because the "photos" were just artistic renders. I fully expect them to be like the Javelin though- cheap plastic junk.

The pocket doors are a good idea, but what isn't so good is sticking seats there with no armrest and no window. Put a luggage rack there and save the criticism.

Any evidence for calling the Hitachis 'cheap plastic junk'? They've not even been in commerical service yet, and a recent magazine article seemed to suggest build quality was very good. The Class 395s are decent units and don't seem to be falling apart, and Hitachi have historically been a solid manufacturer with a record for good build quality. I could be totally wrong, and after 2 years hardly match up to my claims here, however I accept that fact. I will wait and see how they perform on heavy duty work before making bold claims either way on their build quality.

They are the next generation, and specification wise, are a step up on the current stock plying their trade on the line. I like the MK4s/MK3s, however certain aspects such as ride quality, appearance etc. just don't match 21st century standards now. At least the Hitachis look far better designed and thought through than the Voyagers.... I'd rather have a seat with no window or armrests than having to stand for an hour, due to a luggage rack being inserted in a potential seat space. At least Hitachi seemed to have decent sized overhead luggage racks (compared to Voyagers) that can compensate for this. Passengers on these services want seats now, and the growth of commuting along the ECML along the southern section is a driving force for trying to fit seats wherever possible.

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I've drove Lady P (57 307) so yeah! I've driven superman, x men. Yeah. If I sign it and it's safe, I don't care if it looks like a toddler has attacked it with a paint pot. I'll drive it.

If it really bothers you that much then contact your MP. I'm sure they've got nothing better to do.

Exactly - if the train does the job it's designed to do in a safe and reliable manner, then the livery applied is not going to too much of a daily concern for the masses.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

HS1 has 22kN tension, compared with 12kN on the ECML (averages), 16.5kN average is the goal for GWML, MML and eventually ECML. The problem for the ECML, as I touched upon earlier, and which rules out wind protectors and additional catenary support is that the headspans can't reliably cope with the extra weight that comes from thicker, heavier contact wire and higher tensions.

What's the tension on the rewired WCML?
Will it cope with 140mph?

 

[Minilad]

Exactly - if the train does the job it's designed to do in a safe and reliable manner, then the livery applied is not going to too much of a daily concern for the masses.

So why do companies, not just railway, spend millions on liveries. If it doesn't matter they are just wasting their money.
It might not concern the masses but companies want their mark on their vehicles

 

[Bletchleyite]

The original Hitachi mockups looked like cheap plastic junk in a conservative livery.

The Virgin launch train looks like cheap plastic junk daubed in a cheap plastic livery.

It's impossible to tell about the interior because the "photos" were just artistic renders. I fully expect them to be like the Javelin though- cheap plastic junk.

Interesting you say that, as I think the Javelin is a very pleasant train - not unlike the 350/1 inside but that bit more comfortable, and of course faster.

The pocket doors are a good idea, but what isn't so good is sticking seats there with no armrest and no window. Put a luggage rack there and save the criticism.

Agreed, this would make sense. Or maybe a side-facing seat on one side and a luggage rack on the other, some people like those.

 

[TH172341]

So why do companies, not just railway, spend millions on liveries. If it doesn't matter they are just wasting their money.
It might not concern the masses but companies want their mark on their vehicles

I hadn't thought of it like that, so a good point. I was thinking more from an operational perspective, where livery differentiation isn't going to be too much of an impact on the daily performance of a unit/locomotive.

Taking your point into account, I can certainly see why the TOCs spend so much on the livery/branding. Virgin of course is one of the best examples - distinctive and memorable, particularly useful for their advertising campaigns. Thus I can see why the TOCs would want their trains to be in an attractive livery that makes a mark.

So really yes; you need to spend money on the livery to make it stand out and functional to maintain a good corporate/public image. So really it's a balance between getting that right to create a good impression, but also running the services safely and reliably.

 

[Bletchleyite]

There won't be many, but there will be a number of individual seats as shown.

The individual seats are a huge selling point for First Class and always seem to be the first to be reserved at present. I think these are a good idea.

I do see the point about tables for two, but the most lucrative First Class passengers are business travellers who by and large travel alone.

 

[TH172341]

Agreed, this would make sense. Or maybe a side-facing seat on one side and a luggage rack on the other, some people like those.

That sounds a good compromise actually

 

[eastwestdivide]

If it's of any interest, the Hiragana characters on the side in the photo on page 1 (at http://www.railforums.co.uk/showpost.php?p=2502016&postcount=12) spell out:
a-zu-ma
あずま

 

[Bletchleyite]

Looking at the VTEC mock-up that space does have a luggage rack on one side.

The draft seating plans:

https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/3469/iep-train-layouts.pdf

seem to confirm this. I do think having one seat facing sideways instead is a good idea, though; infinite legroom might be compensation for no window.

 

[jon0844]

https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/3469/iep-train-layouts.pdf

What's the DfT doing producing stuff like this? It's all down to Sir Richard.

Damn the DfT for trying to meddle and claim credit for these wonderful trains that Virgin built.

Without Virgin we wouldn't even be getting trains on the ECML. Trains that I believe Virgin are going to allow Great Western to use, but will of course be based on Richard's design.

 

[ScotTrains]

The individual seats are a huge selling point for First Class and always seem to be the first to be reserved at present. I think these are a good idea.

I do see the point about tables for two, but the most lucrative First Class passengers are business travellers who by and large travel alone.

I would have thought a half and half split between tables for two and individual seats would have been better. As a leisure traveller I always book a table for two with my partner and I would have thought most leisure travellers go in pairs. Certainly the virgin voyager two seat tables always go quickly in my experience. I understand the leisure travellers may not be as lucrative as business travellers but they are still an important revenue source.

 

[Philip Phlopp]

What's the tension on the rewired WCML?
Will it cope with 140mph?

South of Weaver Junction, with the proper OLE, it averages 14kN from memory, which is why London Midland can run 12 car 110mph services, north upto Glasgow, it's 12kN which is why TransPennine can't run 12 car services at 110mph north.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I would have thought a half and half split between tables for two and individual seats would have been better. As a leisure traveller I always book a table for two with my partner and I would have thought most leisure travellers go in pairs. Certainly the virgin voyager two seat tables always go quickly in my experience. I understand the leisure travellers may not be as lucrative as business travellers but they are still an important revenue source.

My general view is to half and half tables and airline seating (this gives a very efficient layout, see the Class 158 as built) so I think I could agree to this.

 

[Minilad]

What's the DfT doing producing stuff like this? It's all down to Sir Richard.

Damn the DfT for trying to meddle and claim credit for these wonderful trains that Virgin built.

Without Virgin we wouldn't even be getting trains on the ECML. Trains that I believe Virgin are going to allow Great Western to use, but will of course be based on Richard's design.

Like!

 

[leomartin125]

Did the train arrive under its own power? Electric or diesel?
And is the branding repeated down the train, or is it just at the head end?
I can't see the DfT logo being permanent.
What does the kanji on the cab side mean?
It was obviously a joint Virgin/Hitachi/DfT event, not just a Virgin promotional bash.

Thinking about it, this is simply one of the test units, and is probably destined for eventual GWR service.
Presumably the launch is to get some publicity for the Hitachi test runs about to start on the ECML (which are for both routes).
It can't be a VTEC-accepted unit or anything close to it.
The Azuma branding will probably all have to be removed after the tests, and an updated version applied to the production versions.
Meanwhile maybe GWR will apply its branding to the trains on test around Didcot in the autumn.

Nope buddy, this isn't destined for GWR service at all, this is legitimately the first Virgin Trains East Coast Class 800/1, none on the GWR orders are for 9 car Class 800's, so this is definitely not GWR's! GWR will only apply branding on their trains post testing and this unveiling will occur for them once enough 800's and 801's are ready for service with GWR, which unlike with VTEC, is up to Network Rail as much as it is up to Hitachi and GWR. It would have arrived under diesel power instead of electric since electric testing hasn't started for the 800's so far on the mainlines and it isn't approved for mainline electric service just yet.

 

[47802]

Looking at the VTEC mock-up that space does have a luggage rack on one side.

The draft seating plans:

https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/3469/iep-train-layouts.pdf

seem to confirm this. I do think having one seat facing sideways instead is a good idea, though; infinite legroom might be compensation for no window.

Well the draft layout as you say has always had a luggage rack on one side, I was hoping for luggage racks on both sides on the VTEC and GWR 802 version but presumably that would be deemed to loose too many seats

The colour scheme if its close to the final colour scheme looks like a compromise between the DFT alleged desire to leave the IEP's in the grey base colour and Virgins desire to plaster red all over it. I think looks ok better than the current VTEC colour scheme which don't much like, as for the name that's distinctly naff

Why have they chosen to launch it today when entry into service is such a long way off?

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

Nope buddy, this isn't destined for GWR service at all, this is legitimately the first Virgin Trains East Coast Class 800/1, none on the GWR orders are for 9 car Class 800's, so this is definitely not GWR's! GWR will only apply branding on their trains post testing and this unveiling will occur for them once enough 800's and 801's are ready for service with GWR, which unlike with VTEC, is up to Network Rail as much as it is up to Hitachi and GWR. It would have arrived under diesel power instead of electric since electric testing hasn't started for the 800's so far on the mainlines and it isn't approved for mainline electric service just yet.

Yes, I see now it's a future Virgin set.
From what you say, IEP is still operationally a DEMU then?
Electric mode approval is harder with all the interface testing to do, and with the traction gear at full power.
Then there's bi-mode.
Seemingly quite a way to go on test.

 

[Philip Phlopp]

Yes, I see now it's a future Virgin set.
From what you say, IEP is still operationally a DEMU then?
Electric mode approval is harder with all the interface testing to do, and with the traction gear at full power.
Then there's bi-mode.
Seemingly quite a way to go on test.

The hard work is hopefully done - the difficult part of vehicle approval is usually interference from the traction motors and traction/auxiliary alternators, but they've all been approved for use.

The electric side of things - transformer and traction package, being related to the Class 395 package, and something Hitachi has recent experience in having approved, shouldn't present many problems, it'll mainly be getting settings sorted for interference caused by old and 'dirty' traction, like the Class 86s.

 

[6Gman]

Maybe I'm just old fashioned, but what is wrong with just calling a buffet a buffet?

Because it doesn't just sell food and drink.

You can buy Hello magazine!

[Travelling awesome ...]

 

[WatcherZero]

Apparently Virgin have made a bit of a cultural blunder as Azuma (東) was the historical name for the Kantō and Tōhoku regions in Eastern Japan but these days it's rarely used to refer to the East but a common female name in Japan.

I think they've gone with it because it has a geographical association, an eastern place rather than a easterly direction. Higashi is the more modern usage but funnily enough there is a Japanese station called Higashi-Azuma where Azuma is the name of the rail company and equivalent of 'East Coast' and Higashi because its an interchange with JR East (Higashi-Nihon).
So literally 'East, East Coast'.