Virgin Trains is worse than state-run East Coast - again (removal of 1ST quiet coach)

[Kevin_Brum12]

What difference would that make? I've sat in the business zone and I'm definitely not a business traveller! Some of the other people in there were a family going to London

You can try and manage it through advance purchase tickets such as business advances and program the booking system for business advance reservations in that coach. Not so easy for turn up and go travellers such as the individual who works in Manchester and advised when they get to the office they've got to attend a short notice meeting with a client in London at 1 p.m. - though a good TM and customer service team should be able to manage a business zone.

 

[MCR247]

You can try and manage it through advance purchase tickets such as business advances and program the booking system for business advance reservations in that coach. Not so easy for turn up and go travellers such as the individual who works in Manchester and advised when they get to the office they've got to attend a short notice meeting with a client in London at 1 p.m. - though a good TM and customer service team should be able to manage a business zone.

But what about business travelers who want to make phone calls during the journey? What about leisure travelers who want a quiet journey? Quiet zone makes more sense IMO

 

[HilversumNS]

Their 'excuse' is absurd considering the bulk of their Pendolino fleet is made up of 11 car Pendolinos, which continue to have Coach G as first class. Only 21 (out of 56) Pendolino sets are 9 car.

On the 11 car Pendolinos, 30.3% of first class seats are 'quiet zone' seats (44 out of 145). This percentage has been the same ever since the Pendolinos were introduced.

On the 9 car Pendolinos, 29.3% of first class seats would be 'quiet zone' seats (29 out of 99) if a partition door was installed in Coach H, with the front 1/3 of the coach (under the pantograph, with the lower ceiling) no longer designated as a 'quiet zone'. That would be no great loss considering the portion of Coach H under the pantograph is the noisiest section of the coach by far, probably due to all of the machinery above.

So Virgin Trains could achieve a sensible proportion of 'quiet zone' seats in first class across all of its Pendolino trains simply by installing a partition door in Coach H only on 21 Pendolinos (those that are 9-car), which have all had a substantial amount spent on them already in converting Coach G to standard class.

I used the above information - thanks All Line Rover - to send another email to Virgin, here is their reply:

Many thanks for your further e-mail.

You are quite correct that the bulk of our Pendolino fleet are 11 car trains; I should explain that the conversion of coach G on the 9-car sets was not the only contributing factor to the removal of the First Class queit coach, we found that only a minority of our customers were selecting the Quiet Coach option during the booking process, and it was becoming increasingly difficult to police the quiet coaches on board.

I will certainly pass on a copy of your comments to our planning team for their perusal.

Kind Regards,
Josh Wright
Virgin Trains Customer Relations

 

[All Line Rover]

I was on a reconfigured 9-car 390 today from Liverpool to Crewe, and we started with the usual announcements including 1st class upgrade for £15.
...all 1st class seats in H/J were taken - in fact, full-fare-paying 1st class passengers could not get seats from Runcorn.
...I thought I would put this up to counter the usual "empty 1st class on VT" comments.

Saturday morning VT trains to Euston are always packed - more so in first class than in standard class at times. VT are going to have to increase the price of the weekend upgrade eventually as there simply isn't the capacity on 9 car Pendolinos to accommodate the number of people who upgrade for £15.
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we found that only a minority of our customers were selecting the Quiet Coach option during the booking process

On weekdays you usually have a free choice of seats in first class on VT, so it isn't surprising that many passengers don't insist on making a reservation in the quiet coach. Headcount figures would be more informative.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

it was becoming increasingly difficult to police the quiet coaches on board

Claptrap! I've made a few hundred journeys in the first class quiet coach by now and I've never seen any confrontation. The first class quiet coach isn't enforced, understandably, on weekend trains packed with football supporters, but such instances are rare.

VT isn't proposing to get rid of the standard class quiet coach (thank god!), so "becoming increasingly difficult to police" can't be a significant reason for the change.

 

[me123]

Claptrap! I've made a few hundred journeys in the first class quiet coach by now and I've never seen any confrontation. The first class quiet coach isn't enforced, understandably, on weekend trains packed with football supporters, but such instances are rare.

To be honest, the time when I'd most appreciate having the quiet coach is when loud and intoxicated football/rugby/cricket/whatever supporters are making noise. Because, otherwise, I don't really have any problem with the noise levels on board (on the whole)! So, if it's not being enforced when it's of the greatest benefit, I struggle to see how much point there is in having the quiet coach

 

[1e10]

Just travelled VT, the quiet coach situation is unhelpful at the moment.

As I understand it, VT have taken the decision to remove the 1st class quiet coach and have removed the option and any mention of the coach from their website. However station announcements and trains themselves still mention the quiet coach.

This can result in a situation where somebody not knowing any better reserves a seat and is plonked in a coach considered to be "quiet zone" by other passengers. Not a good solution for all.

 

[All Line Rover]

A quick check on the VT website suggests that the booking process changes from Sun 6 Sep 2015. Until Sat 5 Sep, reservations are made in Coach J by default. If you specify the quiet coach as a seating preference, reservations are made in Coach H and the reservation says "Quiet Coach H, Seat xx". From Sun 5 Sep, reservations are made in Coach H by default and although you can still specify the quiet coach as a seating preference, the reservation simply says "Coach H, Seat xx".
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I have just travelled on the first 9-car Pendolino I have seen that has had some of the quiet zone stickers removed from coach H. Not all though; the 1/3 of the carriage beneath the pantograph still has them. The departure boards on the platform also mentioned that Coach H is a quiet zone.

 

[Clip]

Claptrap! I've made a few hundred journeys in the first class quiet coach by now and I've never seen any confrontation. The first class quiet coach isn't enforced, understandably, on weekend trains packed with football supporters, but such instances are rare.

VT isn't proposing to get rid of the standard class quiet coach (thank god!), so "becoming increasingly difficult to police" can't be a significant reason for the change.

You may well have made hundreds of journeys but how many journeys do they actually run per year? Ten thousand? twenty thousand?

Obviously they are not doing this for fun so to give them the benefit of doubt on this they can only be doing it so on feedback.

 

[All Line Rover]

This isn't related to the quiet coach but I think it's worth mentioning for the benefit of those who think there is far too much first class accomodation on VTWC. Almost every table was occupied in first. Most tables of four were occupied by between 2 and 4 people. Coaches E & F (standard class) had roughly 6 people each, and it wasn't a shoulder peak train. As a reminder of the context, 9-car Pendos now have 6 standard and 2.5 first class carriages. The busiest standard class carriages were A (quiet zone) and B (default carriage for standard class reservations).
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Obviously they are not doing this for fun so to give them the benefit of doubt on this they can only be doing it so on feedback.

Of course they're not doing it for fun. They're doing it because they will only do what the DfT forces them to do and won't spend a penny more. All they're interested in is making a quick buck.

East Coast surveyed their passengers and said there was support for a quiet zone in first class. I do not believe that west coast passengers said the opposite. If VTWC are so confident in their 'survey', they should publish the results.

 

[Clip]

And East coast are no more so that doesn't count.

 

[All Line Rover]

What doesn't count?

 

[theironroad]

Just because the operator has changed and a lick of paint and branding is applied, do you really think all those survey results are invalidated? I'm sure passengers will have the similar answer to a few months ago.

 

[Clip]

Just because the operator has changed and a lick of paint and branding is applied, do you really think all those survey results are invalidated? I'm sure passengers will have the similar answer to a few months ago.

no but I just wanted to join the team of pedants on here who constantly nit pick cos I am bored.

 

[sheff1]

East Coast surveyed their passengers and said there was support for a quiet zone in first class. I do not believe that west coast passengers said the opposite. If VTWC are so confident in their 'survey', they should publish the results.

VTEC conducted a 'survey' which found that people preferred Nectar to EC Rewards. I am sure they could conduct another one which would confirm that East Coast passengers do not want a quiet zone.

 

[All Line Rover]

Another rebuttal of Virgin's fatuous suggestion that the 1ST quiet coach is being removed because "there are too many quiet coach seats in 1ST [and we can't be arsed to install a partition door" and "people don't respect the quiet coach rules [even in 1ST]".

I recently made another journey on a peak time Manchester to London train. There were more people in the first class quiet carriage than in the rest of the first class carriages combined! The reservations were down, so it was absolutely clear that passengers had chosen to sit in Coach H . Numbers were as follows...

Coach K: Zero ("the staff coach" - surprise, surprise!)

Coach J: 10

Coach H: 20 (Quiet Coach)

Coach G: 09

Coach J was quiet but Coach G had two passengers who were yapping non-stop on their phones. Not a problem on this train, but it will annoy other passengers once the quiet coach is gone. There were LOTS of passengers reading a book or the paper in Coach H, which although not absolutely silent was quiet, calm and peaceful.

The train was a 9-car Pendo which hasn't had Coach G converted to standard class yet but, once it is converted, there will still be plenty of seats in Coaches J and K. So much so that Coach H will still be the busiest carriage!

 

[Clip]

Im amazed at how many members of this forum take their time to walk through and do a head count of people on trains

Of course I do wonder if they go through and count after each stop too ....

 

[All Line Rover]

When there are only a handful of passengers in each carriage it takes two minutes. And it is particularly easy on a non-stop intercity train. Not that I would bother if I didn't have a point to prove.

 

[timbo58]

IME it was impossible to 'police' quiet coaches anyway.
By the time I was back in Coach A on a 8 car HST the person making a 'nuisance' had stopped being a nuisance anyway.

On football trains etc it was impossible to do more than ask those present to 'keep it down' and hope they did.

It's probably become the modern equivalent of the old smoking coach FG had -remember those 1/2 smoking 1/2 non smoking (passive smoking section!), 99% of smokers used it to have a fag and then bugger off where they wouldn't get gassed the whole journey.

AFAIAA the quiet aspect of the coach wasn't legally enforceable hence anyone could only be asked to respect other users and in todays world there are an increasing number of people who show precious little respect to anyone anyway.

 

[455driver]

There is nothing worse than being in a quiet coach listening to the tap tap tap as somebody knocks hell out of a laptop keyboard, you know the same people who then complain when two other people are having a quiet conversation but don't give a stuff about the constant noise they are making with the laptop!

 

[ScotGG]

I have to say I'm not impressed with the service since Virgin took over. Fares have gone up a fair and decent offers at off peak time seem rare. What's others impressions since it's changed, particularly in terms of service on board? I've cut back using it dramatically so was wondering if much changed on board?

 

[Master29]

You get annoying people everywhere, its one of the joys of public transport. I'm starting to think people are either a little intolerant or expecting too much from public transport.

How far do you interpret that. Sometimes you get a few a bit noisy but it`s not too much of a problem so we`re not too bothered. On the other hand there are clear cases of people behaving threateningly and clearly doing things for attention. That then becomes an issue.

You can`t lump everyone into one and say people are a little intolerant. I`ve had far too many cases of run in`s with drunk cretins and nearly came to blows with one on FGW`s big Green HST a couple of weeks ago.

 

[SaveECRewards]

I have to say I'm not impressed with the service since Virgin took over. Fares have gone up a fair and decent offers at off peak time seem rare. What's others impressions since it's changed, particularly in terms of service on board? I've cut back using it dramatically so was wondering if much changed on board?

Despite the title this thread is about the west coast so if this discussion continues the mods may want to pull it out (I'd suggest a modification to the title as many would think it's VTEC removing the quiet coach not VTWC).

Apart from you know what (Nectar replacing the loyalty scheme) there's not much that's changed. Staff morale seems high (which I think is important to deliver a quality service) I think the weekday menus have improved slightly in first class with the recent menu change (although the weekend breakfast seems to have been cut further, not sure yet whether it's deliberate or a change in suppliers).

They had promised a while ago they'd start using their sales data and start giving ad-hoc surprise rewards to passengers, but it was taking so long to implement that I had my doubts. This now seems to have been put on-line and many people over the last few weeks have been receiving things like free tickets and lounge passes.

Getting good deals I admit have been harder, but there's been some good offers (20-30% off) promoted through the Virgin Red iOS and Android app. There's some other offers I've encountered such as one currently giving 30% off which I've blogged about here. I'd prefer consistently low prices but at least there's still ways to get deals.