Voter ID

[Bletchleyite]

The better solution would probably be to abolish the right to a postal vote, and allow them only for people who are housebound, with a doctor's note.

Or (as someone who has had a postal vote for years) - why not find a way to *encourage* remote voting?

It's 2016. At present, ordering on Amazon is more secure than voting in person.

 

[Barn]

Or (as someone who has had a postal vote for years) - why not find a way to *encourage* remote voting?

It's 2016. At present, ordering on Amazon is more secure than voting in person.

Yes, but that would require more onerous ID checking than simply turning up with a passport. If you've tried to sign up for HMRC services recently you'll find that you need to go through electronic ID verification with a credit reference agency: not a trivial process and off-putting to many people.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Yes, but that would require more onerous ID checking than simply turning up with a passport. If you've tried to sign up for HMRC services recently you'll find that you need to go through electronic ID verification with a credit reference agency: not a trivial process and off-putting to many people.

True, but a lot of forward-thinking people *would* do it. Why not offer it? I'm not saying we should abolish in-person voting.

 

[Barn]

As we move further to the right, I am sure we'll get ID cards one day.

Of course, it was a Labour government which introduced ID cards, and a Conservative government which scrapped them.

I'm not sure it is a "left - right" issue. More of an "authoritarian - libertarian" issue. However, it is probably correct to see Theresa May as more authoritarian than David Cameron. Several years as Home Secretary can do that to a person.

 

[Barn]

True, but a lot of forward-thinking people *would* do it. Why not offer it? I'm not saying we should abolish in-person voting.

Agreed. I'd probably do it too. But we also need to have a postal system which works for the clichéd housebound granny but which is more secure against fraud.

 

[northwichcat]

People who do not drive have no need of a driving licence and I wonder if passports would be needed more in future, even though some people never go abroad.

I don't see why we can't have an ID card which doubles up as a driving licence so for those who can't drive it would either show provisional entitlement or state non-entitlement for medical reasons.

 

[AlterEgo]

I don't see why we can't have an ID card which doubles up as a driving licence so for those who can't drive it would either show provisional entitlement or state non-entitlement for medical reasons.

That might involve rewriting a lot of driving laws (and associated civil service + Parliamentary time). Good idea in principle though.

 

[Western Lord]

What's the problem? You need photo ID to pick up a parcel from the sorting office and nobody complains.

 

[Howardh]

Why the heck aren't we voting on line? Using our NI number and a unique code - and the small % that aren't on line could possibly use a library, school or such place with the internet and assistance, or even use a polling station (numbers would be much reduced) showing ID?

 

[Barn]

An unspoken issue with permanent postal and online voting (putting outright identity fraud to one side) is that, in some homes, the 'head of the household' might well end up casting votes for all adult members of his family, or extended family.

At least with in-person voting there is an opportunity for a person to be secretly disobedient, and with the proxy system there is a limit to the number of persons one can act as proxy for.

 

[northwichcat]

That might involve rewriting a lot of driving laws (and associated civil service + Parliamentary time). Good idea in principle though.

Unless Brexit is cancelled there will be changes to driving licences as currently we have EU driving licences.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

I don't see why we can't have an ID card which doubles up as a driving licence so for those who can't drive it would either show provisional entitlement or state non-entitlement for medical reasons.

Have you any idea of the cost of setting up the system, the initial cost of card production, the cost of system administration and last but not least, the card cost to the general public?

 

[northwichcat]

What's the problem? You need photo ID to pick up a parcel from the sorting office and nobody complains.

They might request photo ID but they don't always. If it's our regular postman or one of the three postmen who live on the same street as me at the counter window then anyone from the household can go in and collect the parcel without being asked for any ID.

 

[northwichcat]

Have you any idea of the cost of setting up the system, the initial cost of card production, the cost of system administration and last but not least, the card cost to the general public?

Like I said in my later post we currently have EU driving licences so they are all going to need to be replaced unless Brexit is cancelled. The cost of a brand new driving licence is £34 so I imagine the cost will be around that for every person who doesn't currently have a driving licence - unless you propose having fingerprints or similar incorporated in the ID card. The cost for replacing EU driving licences needs to be allowed for as part of Brexit so calling the replacement national ID cards which still show driving credentials shouldn't have much effect on the cost.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

How near are we to having Iris Identification technology used in the production of ID cards?

 

[Phil.]

Forget photographic I.D. cards. All the time that women walk around dressed from head to foot in black sheets wearing dark glasses it ain't gonna work.
It works for several countries in mainland Europe but we're simply too anarchic for it to be introduced here.
Cracking idea though.

Name.
D.O.B.
NI number.
NHS number.
Blood group.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Like I said in my later post we currently have EU driving licences so they are all going to need to be replaced unless Brexit is cancelled.

No they are not, just as passports are not. They would simply lose their EU validity.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Forget photographic I.D. cards. All the time that women walk around dressed from head to foot in black sheets wearing dark glasses it ain't gonna work.
It works for several countries in mainland Europe but we're simply too anarchic for it to be introduced here.
Cracking idea though.

Name.
D.O.B.
NI number.
NHS number.
Blood group.

Fingerprints are probably the best biometric, as they are really easy (and cheap) to analyse automatically. Were they used at airport automatic gates they would be super-quick and reliable - after all, I use one to turn on my phone each time.

 

[northwichcat]

Forget photographic I.D. cards. All the time that women walk around dressed from head to foot in black sheets wearing dark glasses it ain't gonna work.

Isn't there a law at airports which requires such women to have to go in to a non-public area with a female police/security officer to reveal their full face?

 

[Bletchleyite]

Isn't there a law at airports which requires such women to have to go in to a non-public area with a female police/security officer to reveal their full face?

Can't see why there would need to be in the UK, as the airport security system is not based on knowing who you are (unlike that in the US) - it is based on giving everyone the same (or random) treatment. You never have to show ID at an airport security checkpoint in the UK, just a boarding card which could be anyone's - and the only reason you have to show *that* is to stop people taking people through to see them off, which would require a costly increase in security capacity for no good reason.

It may be required by immigration, though that's a by-country thing. Airlines may require it on boarding, but that is a revenue protection matter.

 

[northwichcat]

Airlines may require it on boarding, but that is a revenue protection matter.

The Home Office now requires transport providers to do 'exit checks' on people leaving the country. If you provide your passport details when booking your flight then it's just a quick check after your boarding card is scanned that your details match and the photo is of you but it's a legal requirement.

 

[Bletchleyite]

The Home Office now requires transport providers to do 'exit checks' on people leaving the country. If you provide your passport details when booking your flight then it's just a quick check after your boarding card is scanned that your details match and the photo is of you but it's a legal requirement.

Ah yes, forgot that (obviously it is not carried out on domestic flights). But still nothing to do with security.

 

[cjmillsnun]

I don't see why such a card would be a necessarily bad thing.

Why? I personally see no need to have one.

 

[cjmillsnun]

Or (as someone who has had a postal vote for years) - why not find a way to *encourage* remote voting?

It's 2016. At present, ordering on Amazon is more secure than voting in person.

It really isn't. And electronic voting is a bad idea. Think of the number of compromised databases in the last year alone.

 

[Domh245]

I'll leave this here:

Why electronic voting is a bad idea

 

[cjmillsnun]

Of course, it was a Labour government which introduced ID cards, and a Conservative government which scrapped them.

I'm not sure it is a "left - right" issue. More of an "authoritarian - libertarian" issue. However, it is probably correct to see Theresa May as more authoritarian than David Cameron. Several years as Home Secretary can do that to a person.

It was a Conservative/lib dem coalition. And ID cards was a Lib Dem red line. As has been proven since the last election the Lib Dems punched above their weight in the coalition.

 

[cjmillsnun]

Unless Brexit is cancelled there will be changes to driving licences as currently we have EU driving licences.

They will be changed after they expire. Not before. And will be as simple as removing the EU flag and replacing with a Union flag.

 

[OneOffDave]

They will be changed after they expire. Not before. And will be as simple as removing the EU flag and replacing with a Union flag.

My current UK driving licence has both the EU and Union flags on

 

[northwichcat]

It was a Conservative/lib dem coalition. And ID cards was a Lib Dem red line. As has been proven since the last election the Lib Dems punched above their weight in the coalition.

In the leaders debate before the 2010 general election both Cameron and Clegg said they want to scrap them. There were many things the Lib Dems got through that the Conservatives didn't originally want including preventing a change to the inheritance tax threshold, increasing the personal allowance for income tax to £10,000, preventing scrapping of the highest income tax rate (it was reduced to 45p as a compromise) but scrapping ID cards was something both parties agreed on. Ironically, the Conservatives prevented the Lib Dems from getting House of Lords reform done as part of the coalition and because it wasn't done the Conservatives now see it as threat to Brexit if the supreme court rules that there must be a parliamentary vote on Brexit.

 

[Barn]

In the leaders debate before the 2010 general election both Cameron and Clegg said they want to scrap them. There were many things the Lib Dems got through that the Conservatives didn't originally want including preventing a change to the inheritance tax threshold, increasing the personal allowance for income tax to £10,000, preventing scrapping of the highest income tax rate (it was reduced to 45p as a compromise) but scrapping ID cards was something both parties agreed on. Ironically, the Conservatives prevented the Lib Dems from getting House of Lords reform done as part of the coalition and because it wasn't done the Conservatives now see it as threat to Brexit if the supreme court rules that there must be a parliamentary vote on Brexit.

Indeed, scrapping ID cards was there in black and white in the Conservative 2010 manifesto.

I think scrapping Lords reform was a big own goal for the Conservatives. It also led to delays to the boundary reforms, which reduced the size of the Conservative majority.