Voyager experience not as bad as expected

[Master29]

Voyagers aren't all bad. There are some great window seats if you can get them and but for the humming they can be smooth. I`ve had some great journeys on both XC and Virgin ones.

 

[TheWalrus]

I’m not a fan of Voyagers but overall I think they can be hit and miss. I have had an experience where I had to get off because it was way too hot, I’ve felt sick on them before so generally I try to avoid them as much as possible. I also don’t find the seats particularly comfortable and you do sometimes get a smell of warm urinearound the vestibule areas. On the other hand however I have had some relatively pleasant journeys on Voyagers if the air con is working!

 

[Russel]

Most of the complaints on here are very over exaggerated.

I have a strong suspicion that a lot of the negativity towards Voyagers from enthusiasts is down to them replacing HST's and loco hauled stock.

I really like Voyagers.

 

[Sly Old Fox]

I can’t really comment on the seats as I don’t think I’ve ever had one.

 

[hexagon789]

Does anyone know if the 220s once needed their 4 car length to fit somewhere (they have SDO don't they?)

Bay(s) at Reading?

 

[rg177]

Does anyone know if the 220s once needed their 4 car length to fit somewhere (they have SDO don't they?)

Platform 11 at Newcastle could only fit a four car until recently, though that was rectified when they moved the signal and took Platform 12 out of use.

 

[AJDesiro]

I’ve found the units have definitely gone up in my rankings in the past few years, mostly down to Avanti’s refurbs, which have demonstrated the potential of these trains. I find the XC examples rather tatty and much worse than the Avanti ones, but they’re nice units when people aren’t packed in like sardines, and when they’re actually kept in a nice condition - which the AWC ones are.

 

[JonathanH]

Bay(s) at Reading?

Both platform 3 and 7 could take a five car, after an extension in the case of platform 3.

 

[jackot]

My view now is that Voyagers are hated as a bit of a scapegoat from Crosscountry and all that is wrong with them, rather than a dislike of the actual train itself to an extent. The trains themselves - whilst having some undeniable flaws - are nowhere near as bad as you would think reading a lot of this forum, and are exceptionally reliable considering they don't exactly have an easy life. It is simply XC and VXC's failures before that which have let them down in my opinion; being too short from the start with a rather delusional new timetable and now too crowded, as well as replacing a lot of loco hauled stock as mentioned above; rather than the units themselves.

 

[stuu]

I agree, there is nothing wrong with the trains as such, they are fast, ride well and have good sized windows. If you have a seat.

The problems, as others have already said, are how unsuitable they are for the routes they are used on. As well as being far too short and thus overcrowded, the higher churn at intermediate stations than on other intercity services makes them even more unpleasant to travel on. When I had the pleasure of commuting to Bristol on them, it was incredibly common in the Summer to hear people say "I'm never using the train again"

 

[Bletchleyite]

Not the bay seats especially in coach D.

Coach D does show how nice you can make a Voyager (other than that I'd rather it was half airline half table at the same number of seats, because I prefer airline). However it also shows just how space-inefficient they are, as it has just 52 seats. Though the luggage problem remains - the relatively upright seats don't give you much space between seat backs and the overheads are tiny due to the poor location of conduits above them.

 

[Sad Sprinter]

They are great trains.

A lot of the posts on this forum is baseless whingeing but there is wheat amongst the chaff.

They should never have been built in the first place. Completely unsuited for the routes they serve.

 

[DarloRich]

if you never get a voyager on a busy section of the XC route they are just about tolerable trains. If, like me, your only use of XC Voyagers is on that busy core route out of Brum they are awful. Hideous at times.

I am sick and tired of being squashed in a corridor next to a toilet breathing in another's pooh fumes. I am sure the fumes from the cooking pooh in the saloon have been solved. They havent in the corridor where I always seem to travel. They are horrible trains and want shunting in to the sea.

The Avanti ones are ok if maddening to run under wires. They have done a nice job in making them as comfortable as they can. That said to be safe I would shunt them into the sea as well in order to remove the contagion.

PS: Anyone who says these are great trains wants thier bumps looking at. The XC ones ming.

PPS I am sure from the TOC viewpoint they are fast, reliable, cheap and hammer out the miles. Sadly they forgot about the cargo inside when they designed them...............

 

[Wyrleybart]

There used to be a objectionable smell from the loos, but this was fixed years ago for the most part and has been blown out of proportion on here.

The only problem with the Voyagers is that they are too short, they're very smooth and quiet to travel on.

It is a matter of opinion, and mine is voyagers should have been built as proper trains rather than pretend airliners. A four car train used on long distance "inter city" services should have at least 250-300 seats.

 

[43066]

Voyagers aren't all bad. There are some great window seats if you can get them and but for the humming they can be smooth. I`ve had some great journeys on both XC and Virgin ones.

Same here. They aren’t anything like as bad as is often suggested. As we all know, they’re too short and don’t have enough seats. 222 interior is better.

if you never get a voyager on a busy section of the XC route they are just about tolerable trains. If, like me, your only use of XC Voyagers is on that busy core route out of Brum they are awful. Hideous at times.

I am sick and tired of being squashed in a corridor next to a toilet breathing in another's pooh fumes. I am sure the fumes from the cooking pooh in the saloon have been solved. They havent in the corridor where I always seem to travel. They are horrible trains and want shunting in to the sea.

The Avanti ones are ok if maddening to run under wires. They have done a nice job in making them as comfortable as they can. That said to be safe I would shunt them into the sea as well in order to remove the contagion.

PS: Anyone who says these are great trains wants thier bumps looking at. The XC ones ming.

PPS I am sure from the TOC viewpoint they are fast, reliable, cheap and hammer out the miles. Sadly they forgot about the cargo inside when they designed them...............

Love it!

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

Both platform 3 and 7 could take a five car, after an extension in the case of platform 3.

Platform seven can take ten plus!

 

[Doctor Fegg]

PPS I am sure from the TOC viewpoint they are fast, reliable, cheap and hammer out the miles. Sadly they forgot about the cargo inside when they designed them...............

IIRC they aren't actually cheap to run at all, having been designed in the period of "we need lots of engines and passenger facilities" but before "apparently efficiency is a thing". (See also: 185s.) But others will know much more than me about this.

 

[Jimini]

I rather like them as well. I tend to travel on a weekly basis at least from Coventry to Reading, normally an 8 or 9 car service, and Seatfrog upgrades tend to be cheap as well.

It’s been a long couple of months with Nuneham viaduct being closed; looking forward to being back on board next week gazing out of the (massive) windows across the Cherwell Valley etc.

 

[DarloRich]

They aren’t anything like as bad as is often suggested. As we all know, they’re too short and don’t have enough seats. 222 interior is better.

they are pretty bad on the busy routes that XC use them on. On the periphery of those routes and especially when lightly loaded they are tolerable if uncomfortable. My heart sank the other week when a 4 car Crapager rolled into Brum instead of the HST.

The 222 are nice inside but often just as wedged, especially at weekend. They need a sea/shunt interface also. Have to cut out the contagion else it might spread.

I rather like them as well. I tend to travel on a weekly basis at least from Coventry to Reading, normally an 8 or 9 car service, and Seatfrog upgrades tend to be cheap as well.

I am sure they are jolly nice in first class but in corridor class they are awful. First class on these trains wants ripping out to give us scum class users a slightly better chance of a seat and not being wedged in a luggage rack like a cheap suitcase.

PS I detest these trains. Into the sea with them. I would rather use a national express coach. At least you get a seat.

 

[Bletchleyite]

The issue here is mostly that there shouldn't be any 5-car intercity trains. A 5-car train is pretty much never suitable for an intercity journey. Even TPE are finding this with their 802s now, but Voyagers have a far less efficient interior layout and are equivalent to between a 3 and 4-car 802.

 

[sprinterguy]

Deleted

 

[AJDesiro]

Any people who find it difficult to find a seat, should try XC's 10 minute reservation system, it allows you to reserve a seat up to 10 minutes before you travel. It's not ideal, and of course is not a useful substitute for having enough seats on a train, but it's something at least. I, for one, would rather the trains had enough capacity, as someone who uses parts of XC's Manchester-Reading/Bournemouth services regularly.

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I think some similarities to the operating model of XC can be drawn to LNR's terrible 2019 timetable change, where they merged several services into one. The issue with XC's services it seems is that they stop at many busy stations along the way, it would of course be best, theoretically, if more services can be run with different stopping patterns - though this would never happen for a variety of reasons in the current climate!

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

I am sick and tired of being squashed in a corridor next to a toilet breathing in another's pooh fumes. I am sure the fumes from the cooking pooh in the saloon have been solved. They havent in the corridor where I always seem to travel. They are horrible trains and want shunting in to the sea.

As soon as I saw this thread had been created I knew you would be along to leave a message about "pooh fumes." This is the eighteenth complaint you have made about them!

I cannot for the life of me understand why you seem to get so unlucky with Voyager toilets, because while I definitely notice it on Pendolinos sadly (more so under Virgin, so maybe Avanti have began tackling this), I've been on all 105 of the Bombardier Voyager family countless times and don't believe this to be a problem at all. Like the Intercity 225s and former LNER HSTs, what I do notice is the sickly sweet smell of the air fresheners which continue into the carriage.

For the benefit of those who may have underestimated just how sick and tired of Voyager "pooh fumes" DarloRich is, I've quoted his many grievances here - all perfectly relevant to this thread, I might add! (I will admit I was weak with laughter by the end of quoting them all, they're absolutely brilliant)

Toilets that release the stench of anothers pooh into the carriage. The list goes on! WHY after investing so much time and effort into designing a safe carriage can we not design a safe AND comfortable carriage?

Spent the last Friday night i will ever spend traveling on one of their mobile ordurehouses wedged next to a toilet breathing in anothers pooh fumes for several hours. The seats are thin, the seats are padded with a copy of yesterdays Star and are uncomfortable.

Rarely, if ever, have I had to breath in the pooh fumes of another via the inadequate toilet system and my lap top screen doesnt bounce about like it does on a Voyager.

To be blunt it is the smell of someone else’s pooh being cooked by the exhaust I dislike!

I find the seats to lack sufficient length and girth, they have a limited amount of padding and the windows are just wrong. There can be a smell of stale pooh.

I will travel on a proper train that doesnt smell of pooh, has nicer seats, doesnt resemble a metal tube, and has windows you can see out of and absorb the wonderful scenery!

Choice is a good thing. I do get a little frustrated with choice that doesn't seem to be taken up mind. Especially when I have to stand for three hours breathing in another pooh fumes.

Whereas on xc standing next to the accessible toilet results in you breathing in anothers pooh fumes for 3 hours

Voyagers - Stink of pooh - if you are unlucky enougth to travel stood in the vestibule.

That Voyagers are horrible, tacky, plasticy pices of crap that arent fir for the XC service. oh and they often smell of pooh. How is that?

Try my 3 hour plus journey breathing pooh fumes and then comment. Until then............ I just want a modern train that at least replicates the comfort of older trains

Anyone who says this isn't an issue should stand, on a Friday evening, wedged in the vestibule next to the toilet, face a delay an breathe anothers pooh fumes for 4 hours.

Stand next to a toilet, crammed in with little room to move, breathing in another's pooh fumes for several hours and then tell me there isnt a problem with the toilets.

Us mere plebs have to cram on next to the toilet breathing in anothers pooh fumes. It is said there are seats in standard class. Many of us never see them.

I want a seat. I don't want to stand next to the toilet breathing in anothers pooh fumes having paid £90 for the privilege. Get me more seats.

We could easily live in a world where more HST could be used on XC. It wont happen sadly which means those of us regular passengers have to stand next to a toilet breathing in anothers pooh fumes for 3 hours. but yeah, fast Voyagers. 14 seats. Great.

that is a good post. The class 66's are also very unpopular with the ultras because they removed proper locomotives that made "noise" and produced "clagg". Although i dislike Voyagers a great deal as i think they are uncomfortable to travel on and often smell of pooh.

It should be removed entirely from XC ( other than an HST) and even then limited to the buffet car UNTIL XC have some decent length trains. I am sick of standing next to the toilet, breathing in pooh fumes while there is one smug looking so and so in first class.

What I do have an issue with is the shop (or cafe on Meridians) design, which I think is very cramped and claustrophobic. The carriages are also designed very poorly in terms of seating capacity, with seats in only half of each carriage - the vestibule is almost as long as the saloon! Mind you, it is no secret that I find the trains very pleasant (and the Meridians of the same family are indeed my favourite of Britain's diesel offerings) but they really do have to be either doubled up or on considerably low-patronised services for one to enjoy a journey on them. Avanti's are often ten carriages and have that nice all tables coach too, which adds to the comfort - although I typically opt for a Pendolino where possible.

Edit: I really hope I did not just cause @DarloRich eighteen notifications there... The links don't work by the way, as they mainly come from long closed threads which aren't directly quotable.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Any people who find it difficult to find a seat, should try XC's 10 minute reservation system, it allows you to reserve a seat up to 10 minutes before you travel. It's not ideal, and of course is not a useful substitute for having enough seats on a train, but it's something at least.

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Unfortunately reserving a seat from under someone on a busy train where the displays are often non-functional is a good way to end up in a nasty argument, so I cannot recommend this at all.

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

Any people who find it difficult to find a seat, should try XC's 10 minute reservation system, it allows you to reserve a seat up to 10 minutes before you travel. It's not ideal, and of course is not a useful substitute for having enough seats on a train, but it's something at least. I, for one, would rather the trains had enough capacity, as someone who uses parts of XC's Manchester-Reading/Bournemouth services regularly.

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Back in 2018 or so, I was told I'd been blocked for it, for using it too many times in one week!

Unfortunately reserving a seat from under someone on a busy train where the displays are often non-functional is a good way to end up in a nasty argument, so I cannot recommend this at all.

If the displays are broken and off, fair enough, you can't rightfully insist on taking the seat.
If the display is working, absolutely are you entitled to the seat you have reserved.

 

[Bletchleyite]

If the displays are broken and off, fair enough, you can't rightfully insist on taking the seat.
If the display is working, absolutely are you entitled to the seat you have reserved.

I guess you're one of the people on here who enjoy conflict when it is required to get what is rightly theirs (I'm thinking consumer campaigners and the likes, e.g. those who push their right to use "Thameslink Only" tickets on trains branded Gatwick Express). I'm not, nor are most people, hence my recommendation against using TMR.

Reserving a seat in advance in the normal manner is probably recommended though.

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

I guess you're one of the people on here who enjoy conflict when it is required to get what is rightly theirs. I'm not, nor are most people.

How on earth can you deduct that I "enjoy conflict" from me saying that someone who reserves a seat (for a train on which the displays are working) is entitled to sit in it?? That is what a reservation is for!

Also, what makes you say that a person occupying a seat I've reserved is rightfully theirs?

As it happens, I dislike confrontation and will often just let someone stay in my seat if they take it. I was simply saying though, that he who reserves the seat is entitled to it, whether you or I would insist on it personally or not.

 

[NorthOxonian]

My biggest issue with the (XC) Voyagers is that they seem to act as a Faraday cage - I have never been able to reliably get mobile internet signal on one. I have no idea why this is the case; it's not an issue I've had on any other trains and I can't think of any obvious reasons why you'd get signals being blocked by the train.

Other than that, they can a bit unpleasant due to overcrowding, but perfectly tolerable. If I'm planning a journey, I'll choose an alternative train where possible, but if the choice is between using a Voyager or not travelling at all, I'll happily take one.

 

[43066]

As soon as I saw this thread had been created I knew you would be along to leave a message about "pooh fumes." This is the eighteenth complaint you have made about them!

I cannot for the life of me understand why you seem to get so unlucky with Voyager toilets, because while I definitely notice it on Pendolinos sadly (more so under Virgin, so maybe Avanti have began tackling this), I've been on all 105 of the Bombardier Voyager family countless times and don't believe this to be a problem at all. Like the Intercity 225s and former LNER HSTs, what I do notice is the sickly sweet smell of the air fresheners which continue into the carriage.

For the benefit of those who may have underestimated just how sick and tired of Voyager "pooh fumes" DarloRich is, I've quoted his many grievances here - all perfectly relevant to this thread, I might add! (I will admit I was weak with laughter by the end of quoting them all, they're absolutely brilliant)




















What I do have an issue with is the shop (or cafe on Meridians) design, which I think is very cramped and claustrophobic. The carriages are also designed very poorly in terms of seating capacity, with seats in only half of each carriage - the vestibule is almost as long as the saloon! Mind you, it is no secret that I find the trains very pleasant (and the Meridians of the same family are indeed my favourite of Britain's diesel offerings) but they really do have to be either doubled up or on considerably low-patronised services for one to enjoy a journey on them. Avanti's are often ten carriages and have that nice all tables coach too, which adds to the comfort - although I typically opt for a Pendolino where possible.

Edit: I really hope I did not just cause @DarloRich eighteen notifications there...

I just spat my coffee out at that. Superb rail-foruming!

 

[Bletchleyite]

How on earth can you deduct that I "enjoy conflict" from me saying that someone who reserves a seat (for a train on which the displays are working) is entitled to sit in it?? That is what a reservation is for!

Also, what makes you say that a person occupying a seat I've reserved is rightfully theirs?

As it happens, I dislike confrontation and will often just let someone stay in my seat if they take it. I was simply saying though, that he who reserves the seat is entitled to it, whether you or I would insist on it personally or not.

I totally agree that the reserver is entitled to it, but I don't recommend using TMR on a busy XC service to "reserve a seat from under someone" (as would likely be the case) because it is likely to result in conflict. People are less likely to take seats marked "reserved" rather than "may be reserved", or are more likely to be aware that they are. I personally find such conflict much more stressful than the question of whether I might get a seat or not if I just rock up.

Thus as I said I don't recommend using TMR.