VTWC Facing Industrial Action By On-Board Staff

[whhistle]

Unfortunately the days when someone could quit their job and find another next week are long gone.

Who said anything about quitting before getting a new job?

If you really want to, you could get a new job anywhere, while still in employment; there are plenty out there. But it's the hassle of chaning industries (perhaps) or a pay cut that people wouldn't like.

It's just weighing up the options. Rarely is there only one option. Would I quit my current job before finding another one? Hell no! But if the company was really that bad, then I'd be looking and take nearly any other sustainable job.
And that is the problem. People want to have their cake and eat it. If people were more free about leaving, companies would do more to keep them.

 

[DarloRich]

The point, missed by many here and in the wider world, is that a ballot for strike action does not necessarily lead to strike action. It is merely a tool to try and force a shift in the company position and try to re start talks. The main issue is that the government are indemnifying the TOC's ( in many cases) from the costs of strikes therefore there is little incentive for them to negotiate.

 

[BestWestern]

The point, missed by many here and in the wider world, is that a ballot for strike action does not necessarily lead to strike action. It is merely a tool to try and force a shift in the company position and try to re start talks. The main issue is that the government are indemnifying the TOC's ( in many cases) from the costs of strikes therefore there is little incentive for them to negotiate.

One would hope that wouldn't be the case here though, this being a purely 'commercial' issue rather than the TOC doing the DfT's s**t shovelling for them.

 

[DarloRich]

One would hope that wouldn't be the case here though, this being a purely 'commercial' issue rather than the TOC doing the DfT's s**t shovelling for them.

agreed - just speaking generally.

 

[Carlisle]

The point, missed by many here and in the wider world, is that a ballot for strike action does not necessarily lead to strike action. It is merely a tool to try and force a shift in the company position and try to re start talks.

Proof we can finally bury the myth of the posters who claim strike action is only a tool of last resort used when all other avenues of dialogue have been exhausted

 

[Clip]

Proof we can finally bury the myth of the posters who claim that strike action is only a tool of last resort used when all other avenues of dialogue have been exhausted

Doesn't seem that way with the balloting of people on Crossrail - even the RMT press release is very bare on the facts of who and what it is talking about so how on earth can anyone say that all avenues have been exhausted?

 

[HH]

If people were more free about leaving, companies would do more to keep them.

Fact is that most railway people do not have easily transferable skill sets. Knowing how to dispatch a train, or having route knowledge, etc. is of absolutely no use in any job not on the railways. Therefore it is highly unlikely that they can get an equivalent job elsewhere; and this is added to the fact that, despite the moans, railway T&Cs are pretty good, once you factor in the benefits such as the final salary pension and free travel (which in most TOCs covers more than their area), plus the relatively low base hours and high holidays.

In reality they are not free to leave at all, unless it's to another TOC - and that does happen fairly regularly, within the bounds of reasonable geography.

 

[jon0844]

I would have thought that there are many skills that can be transferred. Working under pressure and planning the best course of action during disruption, dealing and coping with emergencies pragmatically, working with colleagues to solve problems, customer service...

 

[FordFocus]

Any actual news of talks between the union and VTWC?

 

[gka472l]

Any actual news of talks between the union and VTWC?

This coming Monday

 

[HH]

I would have thought that there are many skills that can be transferred. Working under pressure and planning the best course of action during disruption, dealing and coping with emergencies pragmatically, working with colleagues to solve problems, customer service...

These are quite vague skills. Lots of jobs have pressure, but is one type of pressure the same as another? I don't think so. That's even more true about disruption and emergencies. Railways are not known for great customer service, so I'm not sure I'd want to mention that at an interview.

Rather than be vague, tell me a job with similar T&Cs that you think someone from the railway could successfully apply for. Sure, people who worked in a ticket office could work in a supermarket (I know some that have when they wanted more flexible working), but the T&Cs are nowhere near as good.

 

[whhistle]

BTP, Poice, Security, Banking (high street), leisure sites, other transport roles... some even leave to become travel agents. Unless you have a very specific set of skills in one area, like oil drilling or certain doctors, it's rather difficult to move. Although, doctors can specialise in one part of the body, then move on to another fairly easily, but to be fair, it's still in the same industry.

But remember, there's a huge amount of courses people can do while working on the railway to gain them other qualifications, even in un-related jobs like media.

The T's and C's might not be as good... but there's still a choice to leave or stay.

 

[HH]

BTP, Poice, Security, Banking (high street), leisure sites, other transport roles... some even leave to become travel agents. Unless you have a very specific set of skills in one area, like oil drilling or certain doctors, it's rather difficult to move. Although, doctors can specialise in one part of the body, then move on to another fairly easily, but to be fair, it's still in the same industry.

But remember, there's a huge amount of courses people can do while working on the railway to gain them other qualifications, even in un-related jobs like media.

The T's and C's might not be as good... but there's still a choice to leave or stay.

There's always a choice. It just may not be a practical choice if you have three kids and a mortgage. The people I know who have chosen to work for less have all been at the beginning or end of their careers.

 

[Chrism20]

Virgin

Trains West Coast workers are to stage six 24-hour strikes in December and January in a dispute over pay.

Members of the Rail, Maritime and Transport union will walk out on December 15 and 22 and on January 5, 8, 26 and 29.

The union said around 1,800 train managers, on-board catering staff, station and clerical workers will be involved in the action

https://www.standard.co.uk/news/tra...alkouts-in-december-and-january-a3705491.html

 

[Kite159]

22nd December will be extra busy due to it being the pre Christmas getaway.

Odds on strikes on the other operators the RMT are fighting being on the same day?

Anyhow, from the RMT website (https://www.rmt.org.uk/news/rmt-announces-strike-action-on-virgin-west-coast/):

RMT announces strike action on Virgin West Coast in fight over pay justice

RAIL UNION RMT announced today that members on Virgin West Coast services will be taking strike action in a dispute over pay justice.

At the heart of the dispute is the RMT demand for a suitable equal offer for its Virgin West Coast members to that received by drivers.

Virgin have agreed a deal for drivers to buy out their claim for a one hour reduction in the base working week without loss of pay by giving an additional £500.00 on their basic salary, which is pensionable, whilst asking RMT to enter into self-financing arrangements for other grades.

All Virgin West Coast Members are instructed not to book on for any shifts that commence between: -

• 0001 and 2359 Friday 15th December 2017
• 0001 and 2359 Friday 22nd December 2017
• 0001 and 2359 Friday 5th January 2018
• 0001 and 2359 Monday 8th January 2018
• 0001 and 2359 Friday 26th January 2018
• 0001 and 2359 Monday 29th January 2018

The ballot for strike action saw a huge level of support with nearly 1800 Train Managers, On Board Catering, Station, Clerical and Retail Grades on the West Coast route from Glasgow down to Euston voting by over nine to one in favour of both strike action and action short of a strike.

RMT General Secretary Mick Cash said:
“Our members on Virgin West Coast are striking for workplace equality and workplace justice.

“All our members are demanding is a suitable and equal offer to that given to drivers to buy out their claim for a reduction in the base working week. We have made it clear to the company that the inequality and underhanded approach of Virgin will be fought tooth and nail. We will not accept our members being dealt with less favourably than others.

“The message needs to get through to Sir Richard Branson on his luxury island retreat in the sunshine that those who are financing his lifestyle through their hard graft have had enough and are prepared to fight for justice in their workplaces.

“The union remains available for talks.”

ENDS


Editors Notes
• It was the Company who have breached the procedural agreement by breaking away and entering into separate discussions with another Union instead of holding single table negotiations whereby everyone is “treated fairly and equally”.
• It was the Company who have unilaterally breached the agreement reached in principle on 3rd July 2017, as contained within the agreed and signed minutes.
• The Company have benefited from the increased productivity already provided by frontline passenger interfacing staff.
• The Company has seen continued passenger revenues and journey growth during successive financial years and continues to make profit share payments to the DfT.*
• The Company has recorded record profits over successive years due to your dedication, hard work and commitment.*
• The Company has been able to afford an increase in the number of highly paid directors by 66.6%. and over £1.5m remuneration/benefits to directors up 16%*
• The Company have been able to increase the highest paid director’s salary by close on £50k plus other benefits in the last 3 years.*
• The Company have been able to pay out dividends to the principle shareholders amounting to £108m over the last 3 years.*
• The Company has also been able to pay out vast sums to other parts of the Virgin and Stagecoach groups on the backs of your endeavours.*
• The Company benefitted hugely by saving approximately £5.2m in pension contributions plus other savings to NI as a result of the introduction of SMART pensions as accepted by RMT members.*
• The Company’s latest Customer Satisfaction survey results maintain a high position compared to other long distance train operators. This has been achieved by the Company’s good value for money offerings and the dedication of staff.*
• The Company retained the Best UK Domestic Train Service award at the Business Traveller Awards in 2016 – off your back.*
• The number of passenger journeys has increased to 37.7million, a 6% increase from the previous financial year.*
• The Company reputation has improved due to the significant improvement in punctuality during the last financial year.*
• The registered Company profit for 2017 amounted to £51,287m up from £51,023m the previous year.*
• The Company Directors remain confident that, under the terms of the Franchise Agreement, the Company will remain profitable over its current franchise term. Based on the anticipated profitable position and forecast cash flows of the Company, the directors have a reasonable expectation that the Company has adequate resources to continue in operational existence for the current franchise term.*
• The Company due to the staffs valuable contribution to the success of the business under the Virgin brand have been awarded a further DAC taking their control and operation of the Franchise through to April 2019.
*details taken from the Companies recent sets of accounts

Still attacking Mr Branson it sounds like

 

[pt_mad]

22nd December will be extra busy due to it being the pre Christmas getaway.

Will it still be extra busy though without train managers or station staff? And will it still be the pre Christmas getaway?

Not if there's hardly any trains?

 

[footprints]

Will it still be extra busy though without train managers or station staff? And will it still be the pre Christmas getaway?

Not if there's hardly any trains?

Virgin have said they'll be running around two-thirds of services. One train an hour from Euston to Liverpool, two an hour from Euston to Manchester (both via Stoke-on-Trent), one train an hour from London to Glasgow, and two trains an hour from Euston to the West Midlands.

 

[pt_mad]

Virgin have said they'll be running around two-thirds of services. One train an hour from Euston to Liverpool, two an hour from Euston to Manchester (both via Stoke-on-Trent), one train an hour from London to Glasgow, and two trains an hour from Euston to the West Midlands.

Without station staff? (Or train managers?)

 

[footprints]

Without station staff? (Or train managers?)

Virgin's press statements yesterday said that contingency plans are in place and there will be fully-trained staff on board and at stations.

 

[al78]

I would have thought that there are many skills that can be transferred. Working under pressure and planning the best course of action during disruption, dealing and coping with emergencies pragmatically, working with colleagues to solve problems, customer service...

Transferable skills help, but ultimately an important issue is that when applying for a job, you will be up against other people, of which typically at least one will have a skillset better tailored to the vacancy than you, and will therefore be hired in preference to you. I speak from experience of trying to move on to a similar line of work but in a different establishment, I've been the runner-up candidate more times than I can remember. To give yourself the best chance of success, you have to target vacancies which are most closely aligned with your skills, which cuts the options down significantly. For those who have family ties (e.g. frail elderly relatives) and cannot drop everything and move to the other side of the country at a moments notice, the options are even lower. Despite what some people want to believe, it is oversimplistic to say "If you don't like it find a new job".

 

[pt_mad]

Virgin's press statements yesterday said that contingency plans are in place and there will be fully-trained staff on board and at stations.

Fully trained? Where have they found all those stand-ins, I thought it took months to be a train manager?

 

[Starmill]

Fully trained? Where have they found all those stand-ins, I thought it took months to be a train manager?

Strike action by guards almost always results in office staff working trains as 'temporary' or 'contingency' guards. This is very common and has taken place recently at Northern, Southern, South Western Railway and Virgin Trains East Coast, in addition to Greater Anglia where there was a large dispute about it, and probably others too. It is always subject to significant discussion here. I once witnessed one of these people who clearly did not know which switch to press in the control panel and made several mistakes such as pressing the lock button half way through the doors opening, before scrambling to press open again. I complained and posted about this and one other incident I witnessed but my concerns were summarily dismissed as I am apparently unqualified to recognise someone who clearly does not know what they are doing. There have been a significant number of other incidents which were leaked and are mostly unverified. They typically involve the guard being left behind, giving two buzzes against a red signal or opening the doors on the wrong side of the train. I recently witnessed a 'Marketing Assistant' (according to their ID badge on their laynard), who was the guard on my Northern train take no less than 5 minutes to provide assistance to a customer in a wheelchair at an unstaffed station. The station stop took 6 whole minutes as they clearly did not really know how to use the ramp.

It is discussed on here so often that frankly I am surprised you have all missed it.

 

[pt_mad]

Strike action by guards almost always results in office staff working trains as 'temporary' or 'contingency' guards. This is very common and has taken place recently at Norther, Southern South Western Railway and Virgin Trains East Coast, in addition to Greater Anglia where there was a large dispute about it, and probably others too. It is always subject to significant discussion here. I once witnessed one of these people who clearly did not know which switch to press in the control panel and made several mistakes such as pressing the lock button half way through the doors opening, before scrambling to press open again. I complained and posted about this and one other incident I witnessed but my concerns were summarily dismissed as I am apparently unqualified to reconfigure someone who clearly does not know what they are doing. There have been a significant number of other incidents which were leaked and are mostly unverified. They typically involve the guard being left behind, giving two buzzes against a red signal or opening the doors on the wrong side of the train. I recently witnessed a 'Marketing Assistant' (according to their ID badge on their laynard), who was the guard on my Northern train take no less than 5 minutes to provide assistance to a customer in a wheelchair at an unstaffed station. The station stop took 6 whole minutes as they clearly did not really know how to use the ramp.

It is discussed on here so often that frankly I am surprised you have all missed it.

Surprised the h and s exec or the rail standards bodies are not all over this then?

How is it the operators can put people in as temporary guards but not as temporary drivers? As both are obviously safety critical, why does one seem not to be regulated to a minimum standard but the other is?

If someone got hurt and a temporary guard was in charge, would it all blow up?


Can these marketing assistants etc refuse to act as guards?

 

[185143]

Surprised the h and s exec or the rail standards bodies are not all over this then?

How is it the operators can put people in as temporary guards but not as temporary drivers? As both are obviously safety critical, why does one seem not to be regulated to a minimum standard but the other is?

If someone got hurt and a temporary guard was in charge, would it all blow up?


Can these marketing assistants etc refuse to act as guards?

Given they've (as far as I know?) All volunteered/been bribed to strike break-no, not really!

 

[pt_mad]

Given they've (as far as I know?) All volunteered/been bribed to strike break-no, not really!

But are the implications of making a mistake worth the one off incentives?

Will the contingency guards have had the normal 3 months training and will they have sat a rules exam?

In this modern health and safety compensation culture day and age where people can sue for hot coffee or falling over on an uneven paving slab, how has this passed risk assessments and safety regulations???

It could take a week to learn to operate a forklift and hold the certificate, is it that easy to qualify as a guard to the government's satisfaction?

 

[whhistle]

Perhaps, as it seems, any old office staff come out to work the trains show that the trains can work "okay" without the skills the Train Managers tout they have?

Out of interest, do the likes of Cross Country and London Midland get more money from the tickets if Virgin aren't providing as many services? I understand most of the money from a ticket goes to the flow owner, but if they're operating less services than usual, surely the other TOCs should get a bigger share?

 

[Goldfish62]

Given they've (as far as I know?) All volunteered/been bribed to strike break-no, not really!

You forgot to mention blackmail. On my experience outside the rail industry, things can be made uncomfortable for you if you don't "volunteer".

 

[mpthomson]

22nd December will be extra busy due to it being the pre Christmas getaway.

Odds on strikes on the other operators the RMT are fighting being on the same day?

Anyhow, from the RMT website (https://www.rmt.org.uk/news/rmt-announces-strike-action-on-virgin-west-coast/):



Still attacking Mr Branson it sounds like

Depressingly over the top last paragraph again. Why can’t they get a press team that can stop this kind of nonsense getting out?

 

[BestWestern]

Perhaps, as it seems, any old office staff come out to work the trains show that the trains can work "okay" without the skills the Train Managers tout they have?

Part of the intent is of course to try and undermine the staff with whom the company has a dispute, as well as keeping a few trains running. The relevant standards bodies should be all over it, as quite patently it is not to the normally required levels of safety - safety critical railway staff are trained according to set standards, if TOCs could get away with training people in a few days they wouldn't stretch it out for months just for a laugh - but sadly the politics of breaking the unions is obviously of far greater importance, and so it is allowed to continue.

 

[DarloRich]

i noticed some non uniformed virgin people dispatching trains at MKC this week. I wonder what they were doing.