WAG Express

[duffman82]

Any News whether the class 67's will be starting on the WAG next week ?

 

[jones_bangor]

Theirs no getting around more stock must be ordered for all sorts of reasons.

If the Mark 2's are really to be replaced by Mark 3's on WAG (seeing is believing I think here....), then run the spare Mark 2's on some longer services.

 

[The Planner]

Mk IIs are subject to speed restrictions depending on how many there are of them in the formation of the train and what they are pulled by. Unless you are proposing their use on sub-75mph lines whereupon they are ok.

If it's more than 75mph and there are less than 7 in the formation then they get pegged back. Use a 67 then it is ok regardless.

 

[merlodlliw]

Any News whether the class 67's will be starting on the WAG next week ?

No 67s before Dec 2011, on WAG 2, its a 175 taken off another run.



As for Gerald no change to Dec 2011 with motive power unless he gets another cash injection.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

The fact that most days you can see a 158 on Manchester to West Wales and Holyhead to Cardiff turns confirms this. ATW have clearly got the £ from WG but the question is who will suffer for it? The Bay Shuttle has been a Pacer for ages - no bubblecar.

The cleaning staff based out of Shrewsbury are very good at clearing rubbish on route especially down the Marches they ride down to Ludlow and Craven Arms - its the deeper cleaning thats the issue. The lack of stock is again part of this problem as everything is always in service. Theirs no getting around more stock must be ordered for all sorts of reasons.

I have to agree, ATW is desperate for stock, this system they run with everything always in service will always end up with problems,the examples seen daily of sprinters/158s and those awful 153s replacing 175s says it all.
The new WAG EXPRESS2 175 idling in Cardiff for 6 hours between 1230&1830 is certainly not in the passengers interests.
It seems we will have to wait another 7 years before a new franchise to get a better fleet, ATW wont spend a penny unless some one else pays.

Bob

 

[175001]

I have to agree, ATW is desperate for stock, this system they run with everything always in service will always end up with problems,the examples seen daily of sprinters/158s and those awful 153s replacing 175s says it all.
The new WAG EXPRESS2 175 idling in Cardiff for 6 hours between 1230&1830 is certainly not in the passengers interests.
It seems we will have to wait another 7 years before a new franchise to get a better fleet, ATW wont spend a penny unless some one else pays.

Bob

Yeah it's the same story for all TOC's outside of London sadly. As a Welshman working for Northern, I know how you feel Bob

 

[merlodlliw]

Yeah it's the same story for all TOC's outside of London sadly. As a Welshman working for Northern, I know how you feel Bob

Thanks, I was expecting to read chapter & verse plus photos of the new WAG 2 on its maiden run by enthused supporters.

Perhaps they are waiting for the return run, as the train idles for six hours in Cardiff.


Bob

 

[animationmilo]

They used 175111 today on the WAG 2. According to my mate, the 09:14 at Shrewsbury for Cardiff which was the 06:29 from Holyhead was 150257, so looks like that one has been replaced for now. time will tell.

 

[Gareth Marston]

They used 175111 today on the WAG 2. According to my mate, the 09:14 at Shrewsbury for Cardiff which was the 06:29 from Holyhead was 150257, so looks like that one has been replaced for now. time will tell.

The conductor off the 0629 worked the 1205 back from Cardiff and told me he brought a 150 down, the 1321 CDF to Holyhead was a 158 today as well. The 2nd refurbished 158- 158838 was on the 1409 INTL to Aberystwyth with its air con not working and passengers asking for windows to be opened.

 

[richardjeeves]

Im currently riding on 158822 (1638 holyhead to cardiff) from wrexham down to shrewsbury. It feels like this has defanitly seen better days.
Well at least it isnt a 150 or 153

Sent from my LG-P500 using Tapatalk

 

[jones_bangor]

Link:
http://www.dailypost.co.uk/news/nor...ns-link-north-and-south-wales-55578-28743105/

Good news all round for North Wales!

 

[merlodlliw]

Link:
http://www.dailypost.co.uk/news/nor...ns-link-north-and-south-wales-55578-28743105/

Good news all round for North Wales!

I would have preferred the story to have come from someone who actually travelled on the train, than ATWs media handouts.

Now we know except for WAG2 expect a 158/150 or a 153. according to threads 37/38/39 if you travel to Cardiff.


Bob

 

[jones_bangor]

I would have preferred the story to have come from someone who actually travelled on the train, than ATWs media handouts.

Now we know except for WAG2 expect a 158/150 or a 153. according to threads 37/38/39 if you travel to Cardiff.

Surely a step forward? A few months on, the 158s will be refurbed, the WAG stock will be Mark 3!? ..............

 

[1V53]

Yes it is an improvement. Bob always makes the same point time after time re ATW not spending unless they have to. Of course they won't: they are part of a profit making company which does what the franchise asks and only spends what they have to except when the WAG give them more.

Bob if you were in charge you'd be a fool to do any different.

As for the nets on the 175's these were a pig to clean. Rubbish on the floor is quickly cleared whereas rubbish in hundreds of nets is not easy to clean. They certainly need more bins but I was brought up to take my rubbish with me, not just dump it anywhere. The public can be filthy pigs at times

 

[Greenback]

Most profit hungry companies are keen to invest in their businesses to attract more custom, or to keep ahead of the competition. Yet, for some reason, this is not so evident when it comes to railways...!

 

[Rhydgaled]

Link:
http://www.dailypost.co.uk/news/nor...ns-link-north-and-south-wales-55578-28743105/

Good news all round for North Wales!

WAG express 2 is 10mins faster than WAG express 1? I thought, alongside reversal at Chester the reason the 1st one did not go via Wrexham was it was faster via Crewe (or a least, other services meant it could make fewer stops (enabling it to be faster) by going via Crewe).

Now we know except for WAG2 expect a 158/150 or a 153. according to threads 37/38/39 if you travel to Cardiff.

Wasn't there more than 1 175 on Holyhead - Cardiff before? That passage sounds like you suggesting that WAG2 is now the only Holyhead - Cardiff service worked by a 175. If that's the case, and there was more than 1 175 working Holyhead - Cardiff before, where did the others go?

Does the unit really spend 6 hours in Cardiff like the LHCS? If so, that's a stupid waste of stock and, unlike WAG express 1, they have not got the excuse that they aren't being paid to use that stock on other services because they were using it on other services before. If it is really necessary to have the stock idle for 6-hours (I can't see why) the ex-minister for transport (IWJ) should have signed a contract that didn't start until the 67s and mark3s arrived or included use of the stored mark2s to cover for the 175 taken for WAG2 in the contract.

Most profit hungry companies are keen to invest in their businesses to attract more custom, or to keep ahead of the competition. Yet, for some reason, this is not so evident when it comes to railways...!

Perhaps it is because the railways in Wales don't really make a profit, and ATW's 'profit' is actually government subsidy! The franchise probablly has set terms that result in reduced subisdy if the railway's losses are reduced, so any extra revenue doesn't actually increase ATW's profit one jot, so they have no incentive to do anything else? Privatisation of the railways is catch 22, if you set terms like that, you don't give the TOC an incentive to invest to earn more revenue. On the other hand if you give the TOC an incentive to invest by allowing any extra revenue to add to the TOC's profit, the DfT's budget still takes the same hit every year and therefore does not benifit from the TOC's investment in that way. Throw in the rest of the mess of privatisation, esspecially the ROSCOs (I think McNullty's report said they cost £1bn a year, but suggests nothing to fix it, if the government spent that much a year buying new stock (in lump-sum, cash on delivery payments) instead of using ROSCOs to spread the cost (which might be cheaper if they took out a loan anyway) they might have been able to replace Pacers by now).

 

[1V53]

Most profit hungry companies are keen to invest in their businesses to attract more custom, or to keep ahead of the competition. Yet, for some reason, this is not so evident when it comes to railways...!

If you were at risk of losing your whole business to an asset stripper outbidding you in a few years time, you'd probably take a more short term view. Also if you bid on a franchise that did not call for investment then you'd only invest if you were confident of a healthy return.

It's not the same as a 'normal' business as in business usually you don't have your whole operation put out to tender every few years and even then you would still have your shiny refurbished assets to dispose of for YOUR benefit if you lost the whole tender.

If Arriva invest their profits into new or refurbed trains the returns would be impossible to quantify and in a few short years they may be left with nothing to show for it but a hole in their profits.

Surely better to do only what the franchise dictates and spirit away the profits for the shareholders. As a shareholder I wouldn't expect anything less.

It's not Arriva's fault the railway is set up like this, so it gets a bit irritating having Bob making thinly veiled criticism of the lack of spending constantly.

 

[merlodlliw]

If you were at risk of losing your whole business to an asset stripper outbidding you in a few years time, you'd probably take a more short term view. Also if you bid on a franchise that did not call for investment then you'd only invest if you were confident of a healthy return.

It's not the same as a 'normal' business as in business usually you don't have your whole operation put out to tender every few years and even then you would still have your shiny refurbished assets to dispose of for YOUR benefit if you lost the whole tender.

If Arriva invest their profits into new or refurbed trains the returns would be impossible to quantify and in a few short years they may be left with nothing to show for it but a hole in their profits.

Surely better to do only what the franchise dictates and spirit away the profits for the shareholders. As a shareholder I wouldn't expect anything less.

It's not Arriva's fault the railway is set up like this, so it gets a bit irritating having Bob making thinly veiled criticism of the lack of spending constantly.

Its not thinly veiled, its a fact & confirmed by others, Arriva had a 15 year contract & as spent nothing on stock on its own initiative without the begging bowl.
As for WAG2, ATW get over £100K a month to run it, yet made no attempt to hire in or borrow in stock to run it, instead they took a 175 off the 0805 yesterday & replaced it with a sprinter set, last week several 175 runs were replaced by an assortment of stock, WAG2 175 simply means more of the old stock will have to be used as ATW have nothing in reserve.

And yes WAG2 was stored up at Canton for six hours yesterday,as expected,having two special service trains taken out of service for six hours,
while ATW scrape for stock is damning on both ATW & WAG who pay for the two trains to lie unused for so long.

WAG 1 (Gerald) goes via Crewe because that is the Chosen route by ATW, who see more revenue on that route, remember on both WAG EXPRESSES
ATW keep all the fare revenue as part of the deal with WAG. (in answer to previous post Rhydgaled)

 

[1V53]

Its not thinly veiled, its a fact & confirmed by others, Arriva had a 15 year contract & as spent nothing on stock on its own initiative without the begging bowl.
As for WAG2, ATW get over £100K a month to run it, yet made no attempt to hire in or borrow in stock to run it, instead they took a 175 off the 0805 yesterday & replaced it with a sprinter set, last week several 175 runs were replaced by an assortment of stock, WAG2 175 simply means more of the old stock will have to be used as ATW have nothing in reserve.

And yes WAG2 was stored up at Canton for six hours yesterday,as expected,having two special service trains taken out of service for six hours,
while ATW scrape for stock is damning on both ATW & WAG who pay for the two trains to lie unused for so long.

WAG 1 (Gerald) goes via Crewe because that is the Chosen route by ATW, who see more revenue on that route, remember on both WAG EXPRESSES
ATW keep all the fare revenue as part of the deal with WAG. (in answer to previous post Rhydgaled)

They run the WAG via Crewe because of path availability and the fact WAG don't say "no, we only want it via Wrexham or not at all" which is basically what they said for the second WAG. It was the WAG that specified the current arrangement, they knew there was no time to train staff up even for this let alone 67's and DVT's (Shrewsbury's and Holyhead's) new guards don't pass out until September). I'm not sure where they can "hire in" extra 158's or 175's from?! When time allows they will have 67's and DVT's, these things can't happen at the drop of a hat.

Arriva are my employer, but I will stand up and criticise where criticism is due. However, if the franchise agreement allows the company to pocket maximum profit and not invest in the fleet, then perhaps we should be looking to those allowing them to do that rather than banging the, quite frankly, predictable and rather pointless "Bob is moaning about Arriva lack of investment" drum yet again!

 

[merlodlliw]

They run the WAG via Crewe because of path availability and the fact WAG don't say "no, we only want it via Wrexham or not at all" which is basically what they said for the second WAG. It was the WAG that specified the current arrangement, they knew there was no time to train staff up even for this let alone 67's and DVT's (Shrewsbury's and Holyhead's) new guards don't pass out until September). I'm not sure where they can "hire in" extra 158's or 175's from?! When time allows they will have 67's and DVT's, these things can't happen at the drop of a hat.

Arriva are my employer, but I will stand up and criticise where criticism is due. However, if the franchise agreement allows the company to pocket maximum profit and not invest in the fleet, then perhaps we should be looking to those allowing them to do that rather than banging the, quite frankly, predictable and rather pointless "Bob is moaning about Arriva lack of investment" drum yet again!

The route of the second WAG until last December was via Crewe in the application to the ORR, Ieuan Wyn Jones then exploded when this route was
discovered by Wrexham County Council he was, he said, always under the impression it was via Wrexham,very bright having signed off a £3.5M deal via Crewe, as for Gerald Wag1, there was a path via Wrexham but ATW did not want it, anyhow as you are employed by ATW & think your employers need have no social conscience, that's up to you.
I might add its not only me complaining about lack of investment alone,Gareth Marston of Mid Wales also quite rightly complains as well, WAG in its rush to take over the Wales & Borders franchise should have realised it was being sold a pup, taking over a toc with no growth whatsoever written into its contractual terms is unreal. I have to wonder do Arriva want the next franchise. Also it was not at the drop of a hat, ATW had over half a year to resource a DMU for six months, but decided to pocket the £650K and pinch a 175 set off another service,which occurred yesterday.

Bob

 

[1V53]

Bob, with respect you are demonstrating amazing naivety

The franchise allows little investment and maximum profit extraction. Arriva -whatever your thoughts and whether I am bothered about my employer re any 'conscience' over that is frankly totally irrelevent!

If the new franchise allows the same (and I doubt it!) then they try for a slice of the action. If not they take their big wad of cash and say thank you very much and walk away.

Parliamentary members will always bang the drum but it is governments that have put Arriva in this position - if you want to call it legalised extortion I would understand - but they are merely playing the ridiculous situation created by governments.

Virgin are already bleating about the possibility of losing out on their investment if they don't get the franchise... I think Arriva have a different view which is make hay while the sun shines, or 'jam today'

As for the "6 months", the funding was only finally signed off about 2 months ago. I've no idea where there are spare 175's or 158's kicking about available for services over and above the franchise contractual requirement but perhaps you can enlighten us?!

 

[Greenback]

If you were at risk of losing your whole business to an asset stripper outbidding you in a few years time, you'd probably take a more short term view. Also if you bid on a franchise that did not call for investment then you'd only invest if you were confident of a healthy return.

It's not the same as a 'normal' business as in business usually you don't have your whole operation put out to tender every few years and even then you would still have your shiny refurbished assets to dispose of for YOUR benefit if you lost the whole tender.

If Arriva invest their profits into new or refurbed trains the returns would be impossible to quantify and in a few short years they may be left with nothing to show for it but a hole in their profits.

Surely better to do only what the franchise dictates and spirit away the profits for the shareholders. As a shareholder I wouldn't expect anything less.

It's not Arriva's fault the railway is set up like this, so it gets a bit irritating having Bob making thinly veiled criticism of the lack of spending constantly.

I know, my clunsy attempts at sarcasm seem to have failed! I am more critical of the way the franchise was written, and of the privatisation model than I am of Arriva's lack of investment.

However, I do think that the weaknesses in the franchise should be highlighted as often as possible. This can only help to ensure that such mistakes are not made again. I think this is particularly important as the mess of frnachising seems to continue in more or less the same form for the foreseeable future.

I might add its not only me complaining about lack of investment alone,Gareth Marston of Mid Wales also quite rightly complains as well, WAG in its rush to take over the Wales & Borders franchise should have realised it was being sold a pup, taking over a toc with no growth whatsoever written into its contractual terms is unreal. I have to wonder do Arriva want the next franchise. Also it was not at the drop of a hat, ATW had over half a year to resource a DMU for six months, but decided to pocket the £650K and pinch a 175 set off another service,which occurred yesterday.

Bob

It is not the only franchise that was written as 'no growth'. We need to ensure that all future franchises, in Wales or elsewhere, encourage investment and growth.

 

[1V53]

I know, my clunsy attempts at sarcasm seem to have failed! I am more critical of the way the franchise was written, and of the privatisation model than I am of Arriva's lack of investment.

However, I do think that the weaknesses in the franchise should be highlighted as often as possible. This can only help to ensure that such mistakes are not made again. I think this is particularly important as the mess of frnachising seems to continue in more or less the same form for the foreseeable future.



It is not the only franchise that was written as 'no growth'. We need to ensure that all future franchises, in Wales or elsewhere, encourage investment and growth.

I totally agree. I'd also love to work for a company with real pride in it's fleet and image. Any company with pride wouldn't allow eg the 158's that haven't been refurbed to run around in an internally dirty and worn out and externally filthy condition. But I understand why they do, even though it makes me so cross.

I'm no big fan of Arriva as such, they pay my wages yes, but I'm not a worshipper.

My point is the whole system was screwed up way before Arriva came along. They were simply very very canny and are screwing it for all they can get. There's no room for silly 'ah but how much nicer it would be if we had fluffy cushions' arguments here, and that's effectively what Bob keeps doing. It's missing the point totally.

 

[CardiffKid]

As for the "6 months", the funding was only finally signed off about 2 months ago. I've no idea where there are spare 175's or 158's kicking about available for services over and above the franchise contractual requirement but perhaps you can enlighten us?!

WAG (as it was) should have ensured a descent set of carriages/engines where available from day 1.

I've got no idea where there are spare sets of carriages, but lets face it there must be some somewhere, especially as they are going to be available from December. Arriva also own/have the use of 4 Class 57 engines.

 

[Rhydgaled]

Arriva can't really be blamed for the dreadful lack of investment, any investment from them would be suprising. Yet they did make one investment (purchasing mark2 carriages) but then didn't make use of that investment until WAG chucked them extra subsidy to run WAG express 1.

WAG (as it was) should have ensured a descent set of carriages/engines where available from day 1.

I've got no idea where there are spare sets of carriages, but lets face it there must be some somewhere, especially as they are going to be available from December. Arriva also own/have the use of 4 Class 57 engines.

As well as the 57s (which I seem to remember are leased), there are the remaining mark2s Arriva bought (langushing at Canton?). I think the ones not on WAG express duty are put on freight somewhere, but there are plenty of 60s and perhaps even some 66s stored which could take over freight workings to free up passenger locos.

I'm guessing 6 of Arriva's mark2s are in WAG livery, which if I remember the total number (22) correctly leaves 16 spare coaches. Trobble is, without a DVT or DBSO, reversals on alot of ATW services and a lack of run-round loops at a lot of termini these days make using the stock difficult. You would also need to spend money on the locos if you want them to be able to work with the DVT/DBSOs.

 

[jones_bangor]

Arriva can't really be blamed for the dreadful lack of investment, any investment from them would be suprising. Yet they did make one investment (purchasing mark2 carriages) but then didn't make use of that investment until WAG chucked them extra subsidy to run WAG express 1.



As well as the 57s (which I seem to remember are leased), there are the remaining mark2s Arriva bought (langushing at Canton?). I think the ones not on WAG express duty are put on freight somewhere, but there are plenty of 60s and perhaps even some 66s stored which could take over freight workings to free up passenger locos.

I'm guessing 6 of Arriva's mark2s are in WAG livery, which if I remember the total number (22) correctly leaves 16 spare coaches. Trobble is, without a DVT or DBSO, reversals on alot of ATW services and a lack of run-round loops at a lot of termini these days make using the stock difficult. You would also need to spend money on the locos if you want them to be able to work with the DVT/DBSOs.

I thought the mark 2's saw a fair bit of use on Fishguard and Rhymney services from Cardiff.

Use of a Mark 2 DBSO is, in my opinion, not at all viable. Most are probably scrapped / corroded beyond repair now anyway with no compatible, serviceable, locos.

57's will only be suitable for duty where run-around facilities are available.

There are several ex-WCML DVT's in storage, these were designed for mark 2 and 3 carriages, and have been shown to be compatible with class 67 locomotives, of which there are several available also. This is clearly the way to go and potentially be a way of replacing some 175s / 158 paths on Cardiff / Holyheads, particularly if a pool of train staff become trained.

 

[sprinterguy]

I thought the mark 2's saw a fair bit of use on Fishguard and Rhymney services from Cardiff.

Use of a Mark 2 DBSO is, in my opinion, not at all viable. Most are probably scrapped / corroded beyond repair now anyway with no compatible, serviceable, locos.

57's will only be suitable for duty where run-around facilities are available.

There are several ex-WCML DVT's in storage, these were designed for mark 2 and 3 carriages, and have been shown to be compatible with class 67 locomotives, of which there are several available also. This is clearly the way to go and potentially be a way of replacing some 175s / 158 paths on Cardiff / Holyheads, particularly if a pool of train staff become trained.

There haven’t been any Fishguard and Rhymney loco hauled services for several years now.

There are six mark 2 DBSO vehicles that are currently out of use, although who knows what state they are in and as you say using redundant mark 3 DVTs is probably the quicker win as it has been proven that they can be modified to operate with class 67s relatively easily.

Cardiff to Holyhead is probably the most suitable route for loco hauled rakes to replace 175/158 units, as it is quite a long run and there are run round facilities at either end should there be a fault with the TDM equipment in the DVT/DBSO, or if a more traditional loco-hauled formation was to be taken up.

I can count eighteen mark 2s owned by ATW: Thirteen TSOs and five BSOs. Four TSOs and two BSOs are used by the WAG, which leaves nine TSOs and three BSOs spare which could make up three four-carriage rakes formed 3 x TSO plus BSO.

 

[tbtc]

It is not the only franchise that was written as 'no growth'. We need to ensure that all future franchises, in Wales or elsewhere, encourage investment and growth.

Agreed; Northern is exactly the same. No "growth", no Pacer-replacement etc. Difference is we don't have naive politicians meddling in things they don't understand to further political ideas...

I'm not sure which lines in Wales are profitable, but I very much doubt ATW would get any return on their money if they purchased new stock today, given the few remaining years.

The only hope is for the DFT to magically allocate better/ new stock (as has happened for LM with brand new EMUs and brand new DMUs) - that's wholly down to DFT and not because of the TOC's "investment"...

 

[Rhydgaled]

There are six mark 2 DBSO vehicles that are currently out of use, although who knows what state they are in and as you say using redundant mark 3 DVTs is probably the quicker win as it has been proven that they can be modified to operate with class 67s relatively easily.

Cardiff to Holyhead is probably the most suitable route for loco hauled rakes to replace 175/158 units, as it is quite a long run and there are run round facilities at either end should there be a fault with the TDM equipment in the DVT/DBSO, or if a more traditional loco-hauled formation was to be taken up.

As you say, using mark3 DVTs instead of the 6 free DBSOs is probablly the quicker win. However, if those 6 DBSOs are in a salvagable condition they would deliver a bigger win, as unlike a DVT they can carry passengers. Also, you have to modify the DVT to work with specific types of loco, I think modifing the locos (which in the case of what I'd use (47s/57s) are old and would need refurbishment anyway) would be better as then they have the flexibility of working with any of mark2 DBSOs or mark 3 and 4 DVTs, and I think most of you know why I think having deisel locos able to work with the latter is important.

As for Cardiff - Holyhead, what about reversal at Chester? Yes, you can run round there and it has been done apparently but is it too much hastle? I think the faster Manchesters (that ommit places like Craven Arms) might be better suited to push-pull LHCS than the normal Cardiff - Holyheads (ie. not the 2 expresses with their much lighter calling pattern).

 

[merlodlliw]

Bob, with respect you are demonstrating amazing naivety

The franchise allows little investment and maximum profit extraction. Arriva -whatever your thoughts and whether I am bothered about my employer re any 'conscience' over that is frankly totally irrelevent!

If the new franchise allows the same (and I doubt it!) then they try for a slice of the action. If not they take their big wad of cash and say thank you very much and walk away.

Parliamentary members will always bang the drum but it is governments that have put Arriva in this position - if you want to call it legalised extortion I would understand - but they are merely playing the ridiculous situation created by governments.

Virgin are already bleating about the possibility of losing out on their investment if they don't get the franchise... I think Arriva have a different view which is make hay while the sun shines, or 'jam today'

As for the "6 months", the funding was only finally signed off about 2 months ago. I've no idea where there are spare 175's or 158's kicking about available for services over and above the franchise contractual requirement but perhaps you can enlighten us?!

As a matter of fact ATW were aware of WAG2 contract last year when they put in a bid to the ORR, and since January had put in another bid via Wrexham.

ATW did indeed finally sign in the early part of the year,which gave them ample time to contact leasing Companies for a set of whatever to replace the 175 set on the WAG for six months. I am sure the £25K a week taxpayers subsidy paid by WAG for the 175 was not just for diesel & staff.

Bob

 

[The Planner]

Unless WAG/Dft and ATW are prepared to accept slower services then loco hauled won't work. They can't keep the times over the marches. It would also be a sodding big timetable re-write, let alone dealing with Man Picc.