Warrent for £450! Statutory Declaration?? what does it involve and proccedures? HELP

[aaq1]

hock: I m sorry if this fourm is everywhere! m just so stressed I cannot even think straight.

This was a surprise of a life time, this evening when my mother gave me a letter saying I have to pay £450 within 14 days or they will take the stuff from my house.

I have been fined on march but I never got the letter regarding this. Additionally due to my sever anxiety episode I wasn't on top of things! I used to live in a student accommodation then therefore we get HEAPS of junk letters!

NOW I have come to terms that the letter they were supposed to send, me and my friends as discarded it without opening as it said MR [MY NAME] when I am clearly a female! Since I have moved from my student accommodating this is the first letter that I have got from collectica and it also said Mr {MY NAME}. thank god for my mother being noisy and opening all the letters

I have called collectica (such poor customer service!) as well as court and got Statutory Declaration booked.

Now I am worried that I will have to pay additional fines for the court and the fine will increase further! I am currently unemployed.

also what are the procedures for Statutory Declaration? do I have to get a lawyer, will I be there by myself? my dad wants to come with me but I donot want him to. what are the costs for it? how likely is it that they are going to reduce fees!

I have a really bad anxiety issue and this havnt helped me at all! I wldnt be able to go to sleep till Statutory Declaration day!

 

[DaveNewcastle]

You can make a Statutory Declaration in a Solicitor's office, and I'm sure they would want to charge you for their time.

You can also go to the Clerk's Office in your local Court and ask to make the Declaration there. There should not be a charge. I can't see that having your father with you should be anything other than supportive.

You can even make the Declaration yourself and send it to the Court if you know the wording to use.

Please bear in mind 2 important points to remember:

1. You will be making a statement of Truth, under oath, and any deception or deliberate deviation from the truth can be dealt with very severely.

2. The Statement you make (which I presume will be something to do with not having received or not having read any correspondence about your Summons to Court) is only that. It doesn't make the incident go away, and if the Railway Company decides that it simply wants to recoup its costs by resuming their proceedings against you at your new address, then they are at perfect liberty to do so.

If you had failed to pay for a fare and the Company believed that they had enough evidence to Prosecute you successfully in Court once, they are likely to want to bring the matter back a second time. If so, you are not really going to be much further forward, and will surely need some assistance in dealing with the Prosecution.
But one step at a time, make the Declaration honestly, and then wait for the Company to contact you and ask you what happened on the day of the incident.

 

[aaq1]

ok but I am just wondering what will happen at the court? I cannot contact my previous landlord to say that I have moved addresses :/.. will they reduce the fee by any change? I mean I will pay for it if worst comes to worst.. but I donot want more to be added to the fees.. its just the letter from collectica was a shock.

just wondering if I have any chance against them. its not like I lied about my name or addresses.. their simple mistake of my gender has cost me a lot! and I was wearing a skirt that day!

 

[CNash]

Edit: beaten to it by Dave.

 

[DaveNewcastle]

I have booked for Statutory Declaration, and I do not know the cost of court. and what are the procedures?

Just go to the Clerk's Office, preferably first thing in the morning, and ask to make a Declaration. The Clerk will help you to find the right phrase, but only you will know what the true facts are; so between you, you should be able to make a simple and clear statement. If you want to sit in a quiet room with the Clerk away from everyone else and they haven't offered one, then just ask.

I'm not aware that there should be any Fee to pay.

 

[bb21]

Are you willing to disclose any details of your case, such as what ticket you had and which train you caught?

 

[455driver]

When you say poor customer service do you just mean that you didnt get the answers you wanted?

Making a statutory declaration wont make this go away.

Any way you look at it this is a serious matter and making a false declaration saying you didnt receive the letters when you did but chose to throw the letters away unopened or otherwise could open up a whole world of hurt in which £450 would be small fry.

Your next move could have very long lasting repurcussions on your future so think very carefully before doing something you will regret later.

 

[aaq1]

I am new to all this.. I have never had problem with law or court before and I am not familiar with the terms. I am just wondering once I do the Declaration what happens? I heard sometime about being guilty or not.. what happens after thn? will there be further court appearences? or will the train just tell me the fine I have to pay. I would rather pay the fine I dnt like dealing with the court it disturbs my mental health.

 

[aaq1]

Are you willing to disclose any details of your case, such as what ticket you had and which train you caught?

I had a student railway ticket to Birmingham. I had a student railway ticket however forgot my student card

 

[DaveNewcastle]

ok but I am just wondering what will happen at the court? I cannot contact my previous landlord to say that I have moved addresses :/.. will they reduce the fee by any change?

Please re-read my post above.

The Statutory Declaration is just a statement about something, I guess you'll make a statement saying that you hadn't received certain correspondence.
All that will happen after that is that the Decision of the Court which was made in your absence will be cancelled as if it never happened, and so no fines can be collected. BUT, as I said, the Railway Company are very likely to start proceedings against you a second time, using the correct address this time.

Sorry if I didn't make that clear.

 

[bb21]

I am new to all this.. I have never had problem with law or court before and I am not familiar with the terms. I am just wondering once I do the Declaration what happens? I heard sometime about being guilty or not.. what happens after thn? will there be further court appearences? or will the train just tell me the fine I have to pay. I would rather pay the fine I dnt like dealing with the court it disturbs my mental health.

As Dave has already explained, a Statutory Declaration just rewinds the matter back to the beginning. No judgement will be passed as to whether you are guilty or not, and the train company could then restart proceedings if they wish.

 

[Chapeltom]

Out of curiousity, if the OP makes a statutory declaration and the train operating company (TOC) decides to restart the court proceedings, would the OP be able to try and negotiate an out of court settlement with the TOC or is this a cut and dry court issue? Would that chance to settle out of court be an option available?

I'm sure we all know, the OP will not want a court conviction and an out of court settlement is always a good option.



By the way I am glad the OP took my advice on the student room forum to bring the matter onto here

 

[bb21]

Yes, of course it is a possibility.

 

[455driver]

It probably depends what is written on the original letters that got binned!
The TOC are under no obligation to offer or accept an out of court settlement but if the clock is rewound back to the start then they may.

 

[CallySleeper]

For substance, here is the OP's OP from the student forum:

I got fined on march! I did have a valid ticket but the person said the time is wrong and got fined for £20 I was willing to pay upfront but they said they are going to send me a letter and I never received it!

I used to live in a student accommodation than and I didn't receive any information! TODAY my mother gives me a warrant letter charged with £450 if not they are going to take things from my house! and it said Mr [Mod Note - Name Redacted] instead of Miss!

this explains why I haven't received any letter from them! my house mates might have thought it was a junk letter and disregarded it!

I have booked for Statutory Declaration, and I do not know the cost of court. and what are the procedures?

£20 sounds like a PF. London Midland?

 

[aaq1]

It probably depends what is written on the original letters that got binned!
The TOC are under no obligation to offer or accept an out of court settlement but if the clock is rewound back to the start then they may.

yes it got binned, I didn't even read it or even think it was a fine! I have to be honest I was dumb, and not in a very good state of mind. I just assumed it was a warning letter so I have to carry my student card with me I dono what I was thinking!

yes, it was London midlands..

 

[455driver]

It sounds as if you were in denial, the fact the letter was incorrectly addressed means the correct course of action would have been to write "not known at this address" on the front of the envelope and put it back in the post, bearing in mind everything else on the front of the envelope was correct it just sounds odd that you would just bin it.

One of those letters may have been an offer of £20 penalty fare which would have been the end of the matter and throwing it in the bin wasnt a good move.

Do you honestly believe that throwing the letters in the bin because it said Mr on the front of the envelope would make it all go away?
The fact you are a student I would assume you can work these things out for yourself.
Make a truthful declaration (on what grounds are you making the statutory declaration?) and see what happens after that but dont think "it said Mr on the front" is a good reason to throw things away, they should have been returned to the sender.

If it was just a question of throwing every letter in the bin then nobody would be penalty fared or prosecuted would they!

 

[ECML180]

As a student I'm happy to confirm that we do get lots of pointless mail and email, even more so than usual, but to not open a letter is a bit silly, even if you open it and disregard it quickly it's safer to avoid ignoring important mail!

 

[Flamingo]

If the letters were received but not acted upon, what grounds are there for making a Statutory Declaration?

Surely the TOC and Court has done all that could be reasonably expected of them, and wanting to start over because of the sudden realisation that the TOC has the ability to bugger you about more than you can bugger them about comes under the heading of a learning curve.

 

[Fare-Cop]

If the letters were received but not acted upon, what grounds are there for making a Statutory Declaration?

Surely the TOC and Court has done all that could be reasonably expected of them, and wanting to start over because of the sudden realisation that the TOC has the ability to bugger you about more than you can bugger them about comes under the heading of a learning curve.

I understand and agree with the sentiment Flamingo, but the only 'letter' that really matters so far as the Court will be concerned is the original Summons. Other letters have no relevance at that point.

If Ms/Miss aaq1 makes a Statutory Declaration it will be to say that she 'was unaware of the prosecution against her until after the Court had begun to try the said evidence'

She will need to state on what date she became aware of the Summons.

If that is done satisfactorily the Court will set aside the original conviction and will advise the Prosecutor that they may start the case afresh without time constraint in respect of a 'new' Summons.

At that point she may wish to put mitigation to the prosecutor and ask if the matter might be resolved without Court action.

It might help to know which rail company was involved to see if it is possible to assess how likely that approach is to succeed.

 

[bb21]

The TOC in question is London Midland.

 

[Fare-Cop]

The TOC in question is London Midland.

Aah! I didn't see that confirmed anywhere. I saw a contributor suggest it may have been LM and I saw the OP say they travelled to Birmingham, but not where from nor which TOC they travelled with.

I must have missed something as so many TOCs operate in and out of Birmingham.

 

[bb21]

It's at the end of Post 16. Quite easily missed.

 

[TheEdge]

Please to ignore this if I've got this wrong but I suspect a fact is missing somewhere.

Why would "TOC A" issue what appears to be a PF and/or UFN but also then proceed to take things further. Surely it should be one or the other?

 

[Clip]

Please to ignore this if I've got this wrong but I suspect a fact is missing somewhere.

Why would "TOC A" issue what appears to be a PF and/or UFN but also then proceed to take things further. Surely it should be one or the other?

Due to them not paying the original PF. They are well within their rights to do such a thing.

 

[TheEdge]

Yes, obviously they are. My issue is with this sentence from the OPs post on The Student Room;

I got fined on march! I did have a valid ticket but the person said the time is wrong and got fined for £20 I was willing to pay upfront but they said they are going to send me a letter and I never received it!

Why would they issue a PF for £20 but at the same time say they would be sending a letter out? Something is missing. Either OP failed to pay the original PF (in which case a letter would have never been mentioned at the time of issue by the RPI/Conductor/MTSO/whatever) or the OP was offered but refused a PF, hence was informed it would go further with a letter. Something doesn't sit quite right to my mind.

 

[carriageline]

Also, she said on here that they didn't have their student discount card on them, but had a discounted ticket. Nothing about wrong time!!

 

[aaq1]

I was originally planning to do statutory declaration because I missed their previous set court date when they decided to hand this over to collectica. That's was because I moved from my student accommodation on May to another accommodation so I never received the court date letter.

My dad told me just to own up to my responsibilities and it will teach me to stop being careless.. which is true I was very careless and now I have just cancelled the statutory declaration and will just pay for the outstanding amount to collectica. I cannot risk for further court hearing which will only increase the amount as it was my fault for the carelessness.

:cry: lesson learnt the hard way

 

[MyFriendMary]

Unfortunately so at least you were able to own up to the mistake instead of trying to fight a near impossible battle. Takes guts to admit that

 

[bb21]

My dad told me just to own up to my responsibilities and it will teach me to stop being careless.. which is true I was very careless and now I have just cancelled the statutory declaration and will just pay for the outstanding amount to collectica. I cannot risk for further court hearing which will only increase the amount as it was my fault for the carelessness.

Before you do that, do you know under which legislation you were convicted?

You need to be aware of the impact of your actions.