Waterloo station masterplan

[Casper Pesky]

That would be a shame the place is an institution. I would hope that it can be incorporated into the retail plan

Only decent boozer in the area, but not to the taste of gentrifying poseurs.

 

[Omnishambles]

The escalator down to MacDonalds works well, so I could see this concept of using undercroft space being expanded.

….unless like the last few weeks when only 2 escalators are working with both being used in the Up direction !!

 

[yorksrob]

….unless like the last few weeks when only 2 escalators are working with both being used in the Up direction !!

That's no good if you want a Fillet'o'fish !

 

[AM9]

Reading that document is like a game of Buzzword Bingo! One phrase in it sums it all up:-
“Unlocking development value and maximising the potential of underutilised assets to fund improvements across Waterloo.”
I.e Let’s make some money. Once the stations ruined improvements are paid for it will be the cash cow that keeps the developers bank balance in its happy place for years to come.
The only issues that really need to be dealt with are the accessibility ones.

Accessibility, as mentioned in mthe document refers to what was called 'disabled' access. But in far greater terms access in and around the station is poor for anybody (even those using cabs) because apart from a single 2m wide portal by P!, all other access is towards the north corner. It's unacceptable that what is (almost) the largest main line station in the UK, has such poor pedestrian access which alsoimpacts badly on it's surrounding communities. Irrespective of how it is funded, the railway is not a museum for enthusiasts and history students, - it's a critical part of London's transport infrastructure.

 

[Omnishambles]

That's no good if you want a Fillet'o'fish !

Wellington . Double back and down the LU stairs and round, major diversion

 

[HSTEd]

Is a southern concourse going to be astride the tracks in the throat?

That could turn out to be a real pain in the long run.

 

[AM9]

Is a southern concourse going to be astride the tracks in the throat?

That could turn out to be a real pain in the long run.

Beneath them maybe.

 

[Taunton]

New plan from Network Rail and Lambeth Council

Could this be the same Lambeth Council where one or two of the officers have got a "thing" about not separating pedestrians and road traffic by level, so they demolished the immensely useful (and well used) high level footway from the Windsor Lines side over York Road to the South Bank, it seems just out of a fit of "we don't like it so you aren't having it. Smash it down". Much better to force people down the steep Victory Arch steps (ever tried going down those when icy and snowing ?) and across York Road on the level. I have seen pedestrian accidents at both places since the walkway was closed, but never on the walkway in old times.

 

[swt_passenger]

Could this be the same Lambeth Council where one or two of the officers have got a "thing" about not separating pedestrians and road traffic by level, so they demolished the immensely useful (and well used) high level footway from the Windsor Lines side over York Road to the South Bank, it seems just out of a fit of "we don't like it so you aren't having it. Smash it down". Much better to force people down the steep Victory Arch steps (ever tried going down those when icy and snowing ?) and across York Road on the level. I have seen pedestrian accidents at both places since the walkway was closed, but never on the walkway in old times.

Yes definitely, which will be why it had already been mentioned in a few earlier posts.

 

[davews]

Ref the Sidings

Do people even know it's there? I often cut through from the Northern/Bakerloo gateline to the international platforms and I'm almost always outnumbered by the security detail.

Those who use the toilets down there certainly know about it. Which is another saga, the old toilets refurbishment has now taken a year and counting... Do the new plans put toilets at the south end?

 

[camflyer]

Is there anything particularly wrong with Waterloo as it is?

Inside the station isn't too bad but the areas outside could do with smartening up as it's all very scruffy. I don't think it needs a huge amount spent on it compared to other stations in London more of a refresh.

The Hole in the Wall is an institution - I've been drinking in there for over 30 years and is the cause of many missed trains when I used to be a student in Guildford. I doubt it has ever been redecorated in that time so it's well overdue a refurbishment as part of a wider improvement to the front of the station.

 

[DelW]

It wasn't accessible of course, but the entrance to the IMAX subway that was there until relatively recently was a quick way of getting out and across to the South Bank, without having to navigate the maze of roads immediately outside the Victory Arch. But they've closed it and indeed removed all evidence of its existence.

While that subway did keep you clear of the traffic, it could be quite intimidating to walk through at times. There were certainly occasions when I preferred to stay on the surface rather than use it.

 

[MikeWM]

While that subway did keep you clear of the traffic, it could be quite intimidating to walk through at times. There were certainly occasions when I preferred to stay on the surface rather than use it.

I'd agree it wasn't the nicest place in the world, but I used it hundreds of times, often late in the evening, and can't say I ever felt nervous about doing so. Admittedly that was from about 2008 onwards, I understand it had a rather nastier reputation before then.

 

[Dstock7080]

Shame that the existing canopy on the Cab Road will go and it appears that a development will be added on top of the current station building from Victory Arch around the front elevation

 

[JJmoogle]

Is there anything particularly wrong with Waterloo as it is?

If you're just going from train to underground (and vice versa) or train to cab then it's fine imo.

It does however have some major shortcomings in terms of pedestrian exits and entrances, and the way the station structure cuts through and divides the area which can make manouvering around outside it a pain.

These weren't too noticable(for me at least) as issues 20 years ago however in the time since I've seen most of the other London terminals have a revamp and so now it really does feel like an outlier, the only one I'd say is worse is Euston and, possibly Victoria.

Some aspects of these plans seem pretty good, I like the idea of using the old rail bridge to reach Waterloo East instead of the oddly bent pipe, the expanded concourse onto the cab road, and further reconnections of throughways and a new concourse using the undercroft.
Not sure I like some of the proposed towers, alas.

 

[DelW]

Could this be the same Lambeth Council where one or two of the officers have got a "thing" about not separating pedestrians and road traffic by level, so they demolished the immensely useful (and well used) high level footway from the Windsor Lines side over York Road to the South Bank, it seems just out of a fit of "we don't like it so you aren't having it. Smash it down". Much better to force people down the steep Victory Arch steps (ever tried going down those when icy and snowing ?) and across York Road on the level. I have seen pedestrian accidents at both places since the walkway was closed, but never on the walkway in old times.

I think that the removal of that bridge certainly exacerbated the problem of overcrowded and awkward pedestrian routes via the Victory Arch and across York Road on the surface. The bridge was easily the most convenient route if heading towards the South Bank or Westminster Bridge, and I never understood why it was removed. If it really was just the prejudice of a clique of planning officials, it's even more regrettable since its loss was unnecessary.

 

[nlogax]

I think that the removal of that bridge certainly exacerbated the problem of overcrowded and awkward pedestrian routes via the Victory Arch and across York Road on the surface. The bridge was easily the most convenient route if heading towards the South Bank or Westminster Bridge, and I never understood why it was removed. If it really was just the prejudice of a clique of planning officials, it's even more regrettable since its loss was unnecessary.

A bit of a non-answer from the Elizabeth House FAQ.

14. Why has the bridge that spans York Road from exit six of Waterloo station been removed?

The removal of the bridge is designed to meet the aspirations of Lambeth Council, the GLA, TfL and adjoining landowners. This is the second part of the early enabling works we are undertaking and negative impact on pedestrians has been mitigated by the closure of the underpass creating additional space at Victory Arch entrance. Following this the arrival experience will be greatly improved.

Future plans/on completion of the project, Exit 6 will reopen with a promenade allowing direct access to One Waterloo and an onward journey through York Road.

Reading between the lines, 'a footbridge doesn't fit in with our shiny redevelopment plans and we're not legally bound to replace the old one'.

 

[JJmoogle]

It's been a few years but yes as far as I recall it was more on the developers of the building as to why the bridge was removed, they didn't want a hole in it.

Those developers did point to something in the council's planning guidance about ground level pedestrian flow however I suspect that was more intended for places like segregated walkway access flats and perilous subways and underpasses. Not the concourse level bridge to the South Bank from waterloo station. Such a shame.

 

[dedomenici]

I imagine this will spell the demise of the little known and notoriously difficult to find Network Theatre.

 

[AM9]

I imagine this will spell the demise of the little known and notoriously difficult to find Network Theatre.

It isn't clear what you are commenting on here. Is it:

a) the footbridge removal​

b) the provision of through passage to reduce the impact of the station on the surrounding area,​

or​

c) the overall scheme to improve pedestrian and specifically disabled accessibility for all station users?​

 

[DelW]

Reading between the lines, 'a footbridge doesn't fit in with our shiny redevelopment plans and we're not legally bound to replace the old one'.

Thank you for digging up that gem, especially that -

... negative impact on pedestrians has been mitigated by the closure of the underpass creating additional space at Victory Arch entrance. Following this the arrival experience will be greatly improved.

I've used Waterloo Station many hundreds of times without ever realising that I was having an "arrival experience"!

How anyone could think that closing a convenient and safe footbridge (and an arguably less safe and less convenient subway), and forcing everyone to wait for a "green man" to cross York Road among the busy traffic, would greatly improve their "experience", is a mystery to me.

 

[duffield]

If you're just going from train to underground (and vice versa) or train to cab then it's fine imo.

It does however have some major shortcomings in terms of pedestrian exits and entrances, and the way the station structure cuts through and divides the area which can make manouvering around outside it a pain.

These weren't too noticable(for me at least) as issues 20 years ago however in the time since I've seen most of the other London terminals have a revamp and so now it really does feel like an outlier, the only one I'd say is worse is Euston and, possibly Victoria.

Some aspects of these plans seem pretty good, I like the idea of using the old rail bridge to reach Waterloo East instead of the oddly bent pipe, the expanded concourse onto the cab road, and further reconnections of throughways and a new concourse using the undercroft.
Not sure I like some of the proposed towers, alas.

I wonder if the new route to Waterloo East would be suitable for a travelator, as per Manchester Piccadilly? I fairly regularly change between the two Waterloo stations, and although it doesn't take very long as it is, saving a couple of minutes potentially allows new connections and makes existing ones more relaxed.

 

[JJmoogle]

I wonder if the new route to Waterloo East would be suitable for a travelator, as per Manchester Piccadilly? I fairly regularly change between the two Waterloo stations, and although it doesn't take very long as it is, saving a couple of minutes potentially allows new connections and makes existing ones more relaxed.

I would say not as it goes right through the middle of the concourse, the image from the plan(and I had to zoom hard for this) that shows the best view of it has it on the original bridge deck until you get across the road and then a bank of escalators and a lift up to the foot bridge level at East.
Can't see what the new plans(if any) are once you get over there

 

[Big Jumby 74]

I think that the removal of that bridge certainly exacerbated the problem of overcrowded and awkward pedestrian routes via the Victory Arch and across York Road on the surface. The bridge was easily the most convenient route if heading towards the South Bank or Westminster Bridge, and I never understood why it was removed. If it really was just the prejudice of a clique of planning officials, it's even more regrettable since its loss was unnecessary.

A bit of a non-answer from the Elizabeth House FAQ.

14. Why has the bridge that spans York Road from exit six of Waterloo station been removed?

The removal of the bridge is designed to meet the aspirations of Lambeth Council, the GLA, TfL and adjoining landowners. This is the second part of the early enabling works we are undertaking and negative impact on pedestrians has been mitigated by the closure of the underpass creating additional space at Victory Arch entrance. Following this the arrival experience will be greatly improved.

Future plans/on completion of the project, Exit 6 will reopen with a promenade allowing direct access to One Waterloo and an onward journey through York Road.

Reading between the lines, 'a footbridge doesn't fit in with our shiny redevelopment plans and we're not legally bound to replace the old one'.

Completely agree with DelW., and as for the utter BS statement that nlogax has highlighted (well done my friend), just sums up so much of what I find so dire in these times. Did I read somewhere up thread the old canopy over the cab road is to be done away with? That forms an integral part of the station design from the 1920's rebuild. All I would say to those who propose such vandalism is: once it's gone, it's gone, don't come back in ten/twenty years and start asking questions as to why part of Waterloo Station's heritage was bulldozed....

 

[Backroom_boy]

The elephant in the room is the Elizabeth House development which seems to have stalled; it gained planning permission in 2021 but was it due to be reviewed?

 

[jhy44]

Is there anything particularly wrong with Waterloo as it is?

Yes. Many things. Mostly related to how the station interacts with its surroundings:

• The station is surprisingly hard to find unless you know where the entrance is. For such a huge important building surrounded by Central London on all sides, its entrances are tiny, tucked away, and not at all obvious. Mostly this is due to the unhinged decision to build elevated railway tracks to Charing Cross literally right in front of it, hiding its central-london-facing side which for every other terminus is its grand front façade. Unless one decides to demolish those tracks and open the station up properly, the best one can do is try and work around this the best one can (as the masterplan proposes).
  
  
• If you have reduced mobility, heavy luggage, or pushchairs, most entrances are inaccessible or unfriendly.
  
  
• The area around the station is a dive. Mepham Street, Cab Road, Spur Road, and Station Approach Road are dark, cut-off, unwelcoming and unsafe-feeling. Not the environment you want to give people arriving in London, nor is it nice for local residents.

The masterplan looks fantastic, it'll turn one of the poorest station-adjacent parts of Central London into one of the best, and help overcome the effect the station has on cutting off the Southbank communities from one another.

London Bridge might have issues with platform-access interface issues, but I don't think anyone would suggest it hasn't positively transformed the overall station environment and local area. I look forward to Waterloo receiving the same treatment.

 

[nlogax]

The elephant in the room is the Elizabeth House development which seems to have stalled; it gained planning permission in 2021 but was it due to be reviewed?

Good point. Precious little sign of that awful old building being demolished, that's for sure. I did wonder what's taking so long?

 

[jhy44]

Good point. Precious little sign of that awful old building being demolished, that's for sure. I did wonder what's taking so long?

The masterplan document seems to suggest that Elizabeth House's redevelopment (Plot A) completion date is now '2028'.

The approved plans were developed in a pre-covid world; seeing as they're mostly office space, there is no way in hell that the scheme is commercially viable anymore in its current form. Demand for office space has fallen off a cliff, Waterloo is hardly an in-demand office location. I'd expect (I have no intel I'm just using logic) that the developer wants to re-design the scheme and shift to residential, as is being seen play out elsewhere. Lambeth Council will not be keen on allowing that however given they'd lose the expected business rates income from the planned-office tenants.

Don't expect any movement on this any time soon until that circle is squared. It being wrapped up as part of this wider re-development is probably a good thing increasing its chances of eventually actually being done.

 

[Taunton]

Yes. Many things. Mostly related to how the station interacts with its surroundings:

• The station is surprisingly hard to find unless you know where the entrance is. For such a huge important building surrounded by Central London on all sides,

Actually, for the majority it is straightforward, they get the Underground to Waterloo. It is not really surrounded by Central London on all sides, it is on the wrong side of The River for that. The most used pedestrian routes seem out of the Victory Arch corner and across York Road to one of the bridges over the river. Just the direction where the traffic-free pedestrian routes were needlessly demolished in a fit of bureaucratic spite. The fact they walk out of Lambeth Borough, having arrived from outside there as well, possibly accounts for them being given little consideration. There is not a lot of pedestrian traffic coming in from the Elephant & Castle direction - and what there is, likely wants the Underground anyway.

 

[RailWonderer]

The masterplan document seems to suggest that Elizabeth House's redevelopment (Plot A) completion date is now '2028'.

The approved plans were developed in a pre-covid world; seeing as they're mostly office space, there is no way in hell that the scheme is commercially viable anymore in its current form. Demand for office space has fallen off a cliff, Waterloo is hardly an in-demand office location. I'd expect (I have no intel I'm just using logic) that the developer wants to re-design the scheme and shift to residential, as is being seen play out elsewhere. Lambeth Council will not be keen on allowing that however given they'd lose the expected business rates income from the planned-office tenants.

Don't expect any movement on this any time soon until that circle is squared. It being wrapped up as part of this wider re-development is probably a good thing increasing its chances of eventually actually being done.

I was thinking an affordable (by London standards) hotel complex would work better for that rebuild.

In any event, looking at the architect's drawings, no attempt has been made to incorporate lifts in the station building structure immediately adjacent to the Victory Arch. And the tapered steps provided directly in front of that, without handrails, are an accident waiting to happen for those who are of "reduced mobility, have heavy luggage, or are with pushchairs".

It still surprises me no lifts have been integrated and we are all budging past each other up a relatively narrow staircase into the main entrance.