Ho hum. Can we ban the bad puns now?Worst Group
Ho hum. Can we ban the bad puns now?Worst Group
Super Voyagers could be replaced I suppose allowing new bi-mode trains to replace them and the Super voyagers to go to CrossCountry.
Are you sure ? If an employer treats staff well & offers pretty good wages & T&Cs (as most TOC employees currently enjoy) then it’s unlikely the vast majority are especially concerned what brand of uniform they’re actually wearing.Once again upto the last 7 years staff had generally been quite happy, and yes plenty of them are only there because it was Virgin. .
Whatever else, we know your views on Virgin.
Some of us have been on the railways since British Rail and gone through various changes since Privatisation.
I have to say from a personnel point of view, upto about 7 years ago Virgin/Stagecoach was the best company i had worked for since being on the railways, and that was more down to Virgin than Stagecoach that's for sure.
Didn't agree with everything they did and how they went about it but the public in general used to like the Virgin difference.
Trouble is again from my point of view everything has gone abit stale but that is more down to the delayed franchise process and the DfT.
Quite a lot of changes, i believe would have been happening on the West Coast, new trains, refurbishing existing stock, if there had been the right outright winner in 2012.
The West Coast Intercity franchise has been very successful in the years that Virgin have had it and yes they have made plenty of money for shareholders (that's franchising for you), whether some other owning company would have done as well is debatable.
Once again upto the last 7 years staff had generally been quite happy, and yes plenty of them are only there because it was Virgin. Nothing wrong with that in it's self as long as the main focus is still on rail transport and passenger satisfaction.
Have First made much of a success in any rail franchise they've been involved with. They wanted to give the keys back to GWR. SWR, TPE, both not doing great.
That document you linked to is fascinating and eye opening. Says First's 2012 bid included major refurbishment of stock including new seats. Can't help but feel that the boat was really missed there, because the grammar GWR HST style seats were probably still approved for new fitment for 125mph, while today new seats for 125mph would probably lead to class 800 seats, as the seemingly approved modern standard.In the 2012 West Coast franchise competition, Virgin's bid proposed replacing Voyagers with 6-car 'baby' Pendolinos. Loco haulage would have been used for the diesel lines. First proposed a smaller number of 125mph EMUs to supplement the Voyagers. More details here.
135mph was suggested as a way of getting around the ETCS issue, it never really got anywhere and would have made little difference. HS2 would still be required. I suspect a large chunk of the 15 minutes would have come from a demand to not have any engineering allowance whatsoever in their schedules.Interesting the part about Virgin's 2012 bid planning 135mph running on the quadrupled section of the Trent Valley. Would this ever have come off and where would HS2 be now if that had actually occured?
Also how were they planning to shave up to 15 minutes off the Glasgow services?
You have mis-read.London Midland coming back to replace Abellio would be marvellous mind....
Also how were they planning to shave up to 15 minutes off the Glasgow services?
All companies have their ups and downs - you seem to forget the hideous days of Virgin in the late 90s, with knackered 47s and Mark 2 sets dropping like flies, only to be replaced with completely inadequate 4 car Voyagers on which a vast chunk of the network still has to use.
Were you around when Stagecoach took operation of South West Trains? The under provision of drivers and widespread industrial action? And taking 8 years between taking ownership and replacement any of its Mark 1 EMU fleet?
First has had its fair share of downs as well - but it's also had reasonable success - eras change and the terms of each franchise over the years have varied so wildly that it's impossible to tar one owning company with a single brush.
You have mis-read.
London Midland won't be coming back (bearing in mind the majority of the people are the same as London Midland).
I think the 4 car Voyagers were pretty much specified by the clowns at the government
Nope, it was VT. The Government put all sorts of obstacles up to additional coaches/units afterwards, but at the time franchisees had huge freedom.
I suppose at that time that was all the capacity needed
No, it wasn't. It was a significant reduction in capacity because a Voyager takes far fewer passengers (due to the cab ends and wasted space) than half an HST. New stock and improved timetables were only going to increase passenger numbers as they indeed did.
There was severe overcrowding near enough from day one, and it took significant retrenchments (withdrawal from Liverpool, the WCML Scottish services and peripheral bits like Poole) to get anywhere near to improving it.
For those who might mention retaining HSTs, those were going to be for a service into Paddington that never launched, so it wouldn't have had any effect on the rest of XC.
Fair enough. I am sure there were reasons at the time for the decision. An error of judgement.
I am sure that they would want to have had bigger trains with more capacity as it would have likely meant more revenue, if they had deemed it necessary. They obviously dropped a ball there.
I suppose at that time that was all the capacity needed. I remember many trains being a lot quieter back then, mainly because they were so crap and slow.
Are you sure ? If an employer treats staff well & offers pretty good wages & T&Cs (as most TOC employees currently enjoy) then it’s unlikely the vast majority are especially concerned what brand of uniform they’re actually wearing.
All companies have their ups and downs - you seem to forget the hideous days of Virgin in the late 90s, with knackered 47s and Mark 2 sets dropping like flies, only to be replaced with completely inadequate 4 car Voyagers on which a vast chunk of the network still has to use.
Were you around when Stagecoach took operation of South West Trains? The under provision of drivers and widespread industrial action? And taking 8 years between taking ownership and replacement any of its Mark 1 EMU fleet?
First has had its fair share of downs as well - but it's also had reasonable success - eras change and the terms of each franchise over the years have varied so wildly that it's impossible to tar one owning company with a single brush.
XC (and WC for that matter) were losing a fortune at the time, and the limited purchases of new stock (8-car 390s and 4-car 220s) were partly due to that.
We are WC. Not XC. As Yorkie said, that’s nothing to do with us. The SWT point is whataboutery as well. So all we can relate to, were our not really knackered 87s and DVTs which were alright.
We are WC. Not XC. As Yorkie said, that’s nothing to do with us. The SWT point is whataboutery as well. So all we can relate to, were our not really knackered 87s and DVTs which were alright.
The WCML was as bad as the XC network in Virgin's early days - knackered trains and infrasture and poor performance - you're kidding yourself if you think otherwise.
Agreed. In the late 1990s it was a serious thorn in Virgin Group's side.
But other than the rather pie-in-the-sky 140mph bit, they did near enough deliver in the end.
Surely no one expected them to come in a magic a great service instant out of a pile of turd though. They started with crap and have mostly delivered.
I think the 140mph bit would be possible if Railtrack and NR were not so limited in funding, it really should be what we are striving for on our major routes, we are so far behind other countries in this respect with our archaic network infrastructure.
Are you sure ?
Were you around when Stagecoach took operation of South West Trains? The under provision of drivers and widespread industrial action?
First has had its fair share of downs as well - but it's also had reasonable success.
Where Virgin really made the difference was in dealing with a recalcitrant Railtrack and Network Rail, who were ready to give up on WCRM when the moving block saga became apparent.
They (and Tom Winsor for ORR, and later the SRA) showed the value of contracts.
Even so, RT/NR burned through £8 billion and still left much to do on the WCML.
There are still 75mph slow line sections which impede LNR particularly, and north of Weaver Jn still hasn't had the thorough upgrade that was intended.