WCML Power Supply & Auto Transformer Upgrade

[LNW-GW Joint]

Will the arrangements for HS2 power supply improve the WCML situation?

 

[59CosG95]

Certainly not. From memory, the K11 sites still remaining in what was LNW South are:
Feeder Stations:- Washwood Heath, Willenhall, Stafford (hot standby)
TSCs:- Camden, Coventry, Berskwell, Marston Green, Stechford, Perry Bar, Birmingham New Street, Coseley, Wolverhampton, Gailey

Plus a few former TSCs still acting as traction fed Signal Supply Points.

A major task to renew all these sites particularly the Feeder Stations and New Street where the Re-signalling Project used up any spare land where a replacement could go!

Acton Lane as well?

 

[thecrofter]

Acton Lane as well?

No. Apart from it still having the old 132/25kV Grid transformers, the K11 switchgear was renewed by SMOS some years ago.

 

[Edvid]

With regard to Euston - Bourne End specifically, NR's Sep 23 update of the Enhancement Delivery Plan (England & Wales) has revised entry into service dates of Apr 25 / Dec 25 for the Bushey neutral* / autotransformer feeding respectively.

[* Labelled as a carrier wire neutral section - is that still the plan, or will it be inline like the recent MML installation near East Hyde?]

 

[Nicholas Lewis]

With regard to Euston - Bourne End specifically, NR's Sep 23 update of the Enhancement Delivery Plan (England & Wales) has revised entry into service dates of Apr 25 / Dec 25 for the Bushey neutral* / autotransformer feeding respectively.

[* Labelled as a carrier wire neutral section - is that still the plan, or will it be inline like the recent MML installation near East Hyde?]

ATF was originally planned for Oct23 now Dec 25 is pretty excessive but perhaps driven by outage window that National Grid can provide.

 

[Class 170101]

Acton Lane as well?

No. Apart from it still having the old 132/25kV Grid transformers, the K11 switchgear was renewed by SMOS some years ago.

Acton Lane at Harlesden? I thought this had spare capacity as I understand it now feeds at least half the T&H and I understand is required to feed the whole length of this route in certain situations.

There's a 2022 map of the WCML that's coloured in terms of traction power capability - found in a Rail Engineer article.

(image removed)

Seems odd to me why was the Blackpool North branch and the route to Preston allowed to come on stream if it affected the WCML route through Preston (shown to be in red)?

 

[snowball]

Seems odd to me why was the Blackpool North branch and the route to Preston allowed to come on stream if it affected the WCML route through Preston (shown to be in red)?

Manchester-Preston got a new feed from Heyrod near Stalybridge, and an old feeder station near Newton-le-Willows was I think replaced by a new bigger one (Willow Park).

 

[GRALISTAIR]

Manchester-Preston got a new feed from Heyrod near Stalybridge, and an old feeder station near Newton-le-Willows was I think replaced by a new bigger one (Willow Park).

That is my understanding too and also a totally new one at Penwortham must have at least been in the feasibility stage. Also, the whole WCML was planned to be AT all the way which would also help a bit. (Admittedly, Preston- Blackpool is not AT)

 

[MikeJJC]

Hi all, wonder if anyone can help me. In terms of TPSS transformer sizes (400kv/50kV), I have seen it published that typical power ratings range from 80MVA/88MVA and more recently 104MVA. Where can I find research data with respect to transformer technical specifications and typical TPSS sizes used in the UK and across the EU, even globally? Thanks in advance.

 

[WAO]

You might find some help in Garry Keenor's splendid book, downloadable at ocs4rail.com.

Also the very knowledgeable and well explained posts on this site of Elecman and of Electric train on the Great Western coffee shop board (you don't have to register).

Good luck.

WAO

 

[GRALISTAIR]

You might find some help in Garry Keenor's splendid book, downloadable at ocs4rail.com.

Also the very knowledgeable and well explained posts on this site of Elecman and of Electric train on the Great Western coffee shop board (you don't have to register).

Good luck.

WAO

I totally concur.

 

[59CosG95]

Any news on further phases of WCPSU going into CP7?
The 805/807 thread has reported that the Lime Street services might have to be 805s (on diesel beyond Crewe) rather than the original plan of 807s owing to the power supply being inadequate.

 

[Class 170101]

Any news on further phases of WCPSU going into CP7?
The 805/807 thread has reported that the Lime Street services might have to be 805s (on diesel beyond Crewe) rather than the original plan of 807s owing to the power supply being inadequate.

Don't know how they have worked that out.

Surely it already takes two Pendolinos per hour at peak times? Also aren't there less Class 350s than there used to be?

 

[The Planner]

Don't know how they have worked that out.

Surely it already takes two Pendolinos per hour at peak times? Also aren't there less Class 350s than there used to be?

807s are more power hungry, also factor in that NR are now probably at a point where they don't want to get perilously close to the limits.

 

[59CosG95]

Don't know how they have worked that out.

Surely it already takes two Pendolinos per hour at peak times? Also aren't there less Class 350s than there used to be?

I don't know about less 350s, but the additional service into Lime St would be throughout the day, rather than just the peaks.
Edit: I've also looked on South Ribble BC's Planning portal and have found...nothing. My guess is that any development of a new AT Feeder at Penwortham as others have hinted at here would be dependent on a buried connection from the National Grid 400kV sub.

My uneducated guess (not being a Lancastrian in any way, shape or form) is that any potential (hold your applause) buried grid connection would follow this route (or broadly similar) to minimise costs.

 

[Elecman]

I don't know about less 350s, but the additional service into Lime St would be throughout the day, rather than just the peaks.
Edit: I've also looked on South Ribble BC's Planning portal and have found...nothing. My guess is that any development of a new AT Feeder at Penwortham as others have hinted at here would be dependent on a buried connection from the National Grid 400kV sub.

My uneducated guess (not being a Lancastrian in any way, shape or form) is that any potential (hold your applause) buried grid connection would follow this route (or broadly similar) to minimise costs.
View attachment 156531

Ala Harker 400kV feeder, it would be underground cabling at 25kV to a new Feeder Substation on the railway

 

[59CosG95]

Ala Harker 400kV feeder, it would be underground cabling at 25kV to a new Feeder Substation on the railway

As I suspected. Did the Harker underground cable require planning permission? Not being completely au fait with planning laws, I don't know if a buried cable would have been outwith the requirement for a planning application.

 

[Nicholas Lewis]

807s are more power hungry, also factor in that NR are now probably at a point where they don't want to get perilously close to the limits.

If there a power shortage (im skeptical) then they should have had a software map to mimic a pendo power curve for lines that have little headroom. It will be farcical to run yet more bimode units on diesel under the wires.

 

[The Planner]

If there a power shortage (im skeptical) then they should have had a software map to mimic a pendo power curve for lines that have little headroom. It will be farcical to run yet more bimode units on diesel under the wires.

Power supply is computer modelled by the principal route engineer (PRE)

 

[WAO]

The approaches to Lime Street were supplied (for quite a short distance) from the small Speke Feeder Station, which is now rather more busy.

Perhaps the latest passenger traction should have had the local ability to limit current drawing, the loss of performance would be minor. The 91's had emulators that allowed them to pretend to be older less powerful loco's, for driving and TT purposes.

WAO

 

[Nicholas Lewis]

The approaches to Lime Street were supplied (for quite a short distance) from the small Speke Feeder Station, which is now rather more busy.

Perhaps the latest passenger traction should have had the local ability to limit current drawing, the loss of performance would be minor. The 91's had emulators that allowed them to pretend to be older less powerful loco's, for driving and TT purposes.

WAO

This is easily done these days using gps to select a different power curve on restricted routes and it will be most stupid of the industry if it has electric trains using their diesel engines to run to Lime St.

 

[stuving]

As I suspected. Did the Harker underground cable require planning permission? Not being completely au fait with planning laws, I don't know if a buried cable would have been outwith the requirement for a planning application.

This from something put out by SP Energy Networks:

All development requires planning permission. However, some forms of development, including underground cables, are classed as ‘permitted development’ under the Town and Country Planning (General Permitted Development) (England) Order 2015 and the Town and Country Planning (General Permitted Development)(Amendment)(Wales) Order 2014. Developments classified as permitted development may automatically be granted planning permission, by statutory order, and do not require submission of a planning application to the local planning authority.

There will also be access rights (I think this is the same underground as overhead):

To permit the construction, operation and maintenance of overhead lines, suitable rights over land (wayleaves, servitudes and easements) are needed from every owner or other party holding a relevant interest in the land crossed by a proposed major electrical infrastructure project. SPEN hopes that the necessary rights can be granted to them voluntarily following negotiation, but if this cannot be achieved, the Company can apply to the appropriate body for any necessary wayleaves.