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WCML South Problems

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Lampshade

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I much prefer third rail. Less visual impact on the surroundings, less railside structure to vandalise / go wrong... it's my preferred system.

I agree entirely.

Anyway, the 390 would have been running with the rear pan up, one of the reasons being that if the rear pan is damaged by an obstruction etc, the train can continue on the front pan as it would already have cleared the obstruction. Couldn't they at least have run it to the nearest station, or is this a complete OHLE failure? :?
 
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Bedpan

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London Miidland and National Rail websites say no trains between Euston and Watforf Junc, yet the live departures section suggests that the 16.54 Euston to Northampton is on its way, left Euston 13 mins late. This is the only northbound Watford Junction stopper that seems to be on the move though.
 

Lrd

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London Miidland and National Rail websites say no trains between Euston and Watforf Junc, yet the live departures section suggests that the 16.54 Euston to Northampton is on its way, left Euston 13 mins late. This is the only northbound Watford Junction stopper that seems to be on the move though.

According to LM twitter, a few lines have reopened.

See here.
 
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Evvy73

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I was caught up in this too - me and a few friends were booked on the 11:23 to Coventry, with the intention of (hopefully!) watching Saints beat Coventry, We gave up at 1:30pm when still nothing was running, and accepting that we would not be able to get to the ground in time for kick-off.

On the plus side we did discover an excellent ale house near the station (Bree Louise), so small mercies and all that.

Hopefully we will get our money back from Virgin for the train tickets to Coventry. I would like to have seen a 4-2 victory! :(
 

SS4

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I'm taking no chances and getting a train from myb. I have route any permitted anyway :)
 

DarloRich

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I was caught up in this too - me and a few friends were booked on the 11:23 to Coventry, with the intention of (hopefully!) watching Saints beat Coventry, We gave up at 1:30pm when still nothing was running, and accepting that we would not be able to get to the ground in time for kick-off.

On the plus side we did discover an excellent ale house near the station (Bree Louise), so small mercies and all that.

Hopefully we will get our money back from Virgin for the train tickets to Coventry. I would like to have seen a 4-2 victory! :(

there are worse places to be stuck than the bree louise!


 

Whistler40145

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Is it my imagination that most damage to the OHLE on the WCML seems to happen south of Rugby. I hardly hear of it happening in the Northwest.
 

DXMachina

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it does rather seem to me that the people who enthusastically push for electrification of everything usually seem to rather overlook what seems to be the fact that overhead electrification does seem to be rather fragile, and when it comes down everything stops, not just one individual train, as would be the case with other forms of propulsion. Can we be assured that when (for instance) the Great Western line is electrificated, this problem will not occur?

A current reading of the plans for IEP trains suggests that all units, including electric-only ones, will have at least one diesel engine (I am assuming these are underfloor pods) for shunting purposes

Therefore yes - assuming plans remain unchanged - GW electrification won't lead to complete immobilisation in event of a power cut-off or wires-down

Just the suburban trains will be affected ;) Plus presumably anything that got roasted by the flapping 25kv....
 

trainophile

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On 1830 Glasgow Ctl - left 1943.

I think my sister and b-i-l are on that one. Is it packed? They're trying to get back to Liverpool after a day out in the smoke. Hoping to make connection at Warrington but I can't fathom which one they mean from the info I've found.

They were going to stay with us in Hereford but phoned back to say they couldn't get here either. Sounds like a total shambles.
 

DarloRich

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At bletchley now waiting for the train home after fireworks and the boards are still showing the 1246 1452 and 1716 trains as being delayed!
 

OxtedL

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A light-hearted question to save me starting a new thread:

How many pendos coupled together could one 57 haul at one time?

Highly theoretical of course, but worth it just for the amusing mental images...
 

MidnightFlyer

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I think my sister and b-i-l are on that one. Is it packed? They're trying to get back to Liverpool after a day out in the smoke. Hoping to make connection at Warrington but I can't fathom which one they mean from the info I've found.

They were going to stay with us in Hereford but phoned back to say they couldn't get here either. Sounds like a total shambles.

Just left Rugby. Fairly busy, but they should be ok for Liverpool ex-[STN]WBQ[/STN].
 

Class377/5

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I went upto Birmingham for the day on LM special (£9 odd for a return) and didn't find out until I got to New Street and was advised to to get a train from Moor Street. Ended up on a train that left Brum 3mins later than my LM one and arrived into London 23mins earlier so by the time I got home I'd lost 10mins and done two new routes.

Luck isn't the word.
 

Lrd

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I went upto Birmingham for the day on LM special (£9 odd for a return) and didn't find out until I got to New Street and was advised to to get a train from Moor Street. Ended up on a train that left Brum 3mins later than my LM one and arrived into London 23mins earlier so by the time I got home I'd lost 10mins and done two new routes.

Luck isn't the word.

This is off topic but I had something like yours, going up to Waterloo from Southampton, and there were problems on the line between Woking and Waterloo so got diverted after Woking through Camberley(?) and the Kingston loop in to Clapham Junction from the Windsor lines. I wasn't complaining!
 

Sheepy1209

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Just got back to Blackpool after a Great Escape from Crewe - arrived at Euston just after 1600 to get the 1646, to find empty departure boards and not all that many staff. Decided not to wait for guidance and assumed east midlands would accept tickets so one brisk walk later we caught a packed 1625 to Leicester and then a cross-country service to Nuneaton. Caught the 1817 about 30 minutes late, it having started from Rugby and, as it happens, being the service that we should have caught from Euston.

Managed to catch the Preston service from Crewe with two minutes to spare, and arrived home on schedule, with my first 222 trip and my first visit to the new st Pancras!

A little bit of route knowledge helped, and I found the android rail planner app on my phone took much of the stress away. The lm train was empty, so heaven knows where all the day trippers crammed on the southbound journey got to!

(Edit: I don't know what ticket acceptance arrangements were in place, but EMT were great at both St Pancras and Leicester; I've just been browsing the LM Twitter feed and it looks like they have trouble getting Stagecoach to accept their tickets - but didn't seem to matter. I was prepared to pay for the Leicester-Nuneaton stretch but there was no ticket check - maybe because of all the drunk 'sports fans'. A bunch of Derby 'fans' got off at Leicester and they looked a frightening bunch, the rugby fans were loud but at least harmless.)
 
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Firestarter

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Just got back to Blackpool after a Great Escape from Crewe - arrived at Euston just after 1600 to get the 1646, to find empty departure boards and not all that many staff. Decided not to wait for guidance and assumed east midlands would accept tickets so one brisk walk later we caught a packed 1625 to Leicester and then a cross-country service to Nuneaton. Caught the 1817 about 30 minutes late, it having started from Rugby and, as it happens, being the service that we should have caught from Euston.

Managed to catch the Preston service from Crewe with two minutes to spare, and arrived home on schedule, with my first 222 trip and my first visit to the new st Pancras!

A little bit of route knowledge helped, and I found the android rail planner app on my phone took much of the stress away. The lm train was empty, so heaven knows where all the day trippers crammed on the southbound journey got to!

Where would we be without apps, eh?:D:D:D
 

33056

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Is it not possible for a 220/221 to divert via the DC Electric lines or a 57 hauled 390?
No, 220/221/390s are not cleared on the DC lines and, even if they were, there would probably be major issues finding train crew with the requisite route knowledge. Also, it would require a shunt at Watford to get onto the DC lines.

(A fed up 33056 who got home three hours late yesterday, an hour of which was spent at Watford Junction watching LM ineptitude <()
 

Whistler40145

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33056, AFAIK only loco hauled stock can be diverted via the DC Lines & Northbound only without a shunt at Watford Junction.
 

ChiefPlanner

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Is it not possible for a 220/221 to divert via the DC Electric lines or a 57 hauled 390?

No - neither are cleared - MK3 or longer vehicles have issues with curved platforms and access is only via Pf6 at Watford which is tricky on the up.

Last done in 1996 (Watford accident) - and then only for RES Mail trains.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
(A fed up 33056 who got home three hours late yesterday, an hour of which was spent at Watford Junction watching LM ineptitude )
__________________


A bit harsh - recovery from an incident of this nature is not just a case of turning trains back like on a model railway - especially as reversing south to north at Watford can only be easily done in Platfrom 9. Crews and sets massively displaced.

Having the DC stopped at Sth Kenton would not have helped Watford stranded passengers to be kept moving either. All in all , a very major disruption and a day best forgotton. (bar the joint enquiry)
 

ChiefPlanner

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AFAIK Mk I & Mk II stock are cleared.

Agreed , but a bit academic these days. Non tripcock fitted trains were also subject to a 25mph restriction south of Harrow&Wealdstone.

As the section south of HW is pretty much at capacity headway wise , and north therefor has very limited 2 aspect signalling , even if the stock was cleared and all other things being possible , actual options are very low for diversion. Best option used to be transfers to the DV at WFJ with either a few extras squeezed in , or some 6 car working (which needed a guard) - back in the days of 313 operation. 378 have at least plenty of standing room.
 

Trog

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I seem to remember seeing an HST on the DC during the clear up for the Harrow north derailment. Very useful it was to, as our Supervisor sent an inconvenient manager off to Bushey to check the platforms.
 

33056

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Last done in 1996 (Watford accident) - and then only for RES Mail trains.
ISTR Royal Mail trains going over the DC just after Christmas 2000 during the Euston / Willesden resignalling.

A bit harsh - recovery from an incident of this nature is not just a case of turning trains back like on a model railway - especially as reversing south to north at Watford can only be easily done in Platfrom 9. Crews and sets massively displaced.
Not harsh at all; I have been around long enough to realise that disruption on that scale is not easy to recover from but what I do object to is conflicting or downright lack of information as to what is happening.

Some examples from yesterday:

LOROL staff announcing that the DC was suspended due to a cable fault when I guessed, then confirmed with my contacts, that the real reason for there being no trains was an emergency isolation to allow passengers to be evacuated from the stranded train.

Arriving at Watford Junction to see that the 16:11 to Northampton was on the screens and being announced (several times) as departing from Platform 9. Train arrives from North, pax alight and punters on platform get on – guard hasn’t a clue what is going on (no reflection on him BTW), announcements dry up with the result that two lots of passengers are now milling around on the platform.

Eventually it is decided that the train will go to Euston, by which time most of the people who were on it have disappeared off to take their chances by some other means. There is then a further delay before somebody either:
a) Bothers to tell the signalman which way it is going so he can clear the signal
b) Gives up the block on the Up Slow so that the train can proceed, in the meantime it is blocking the only usable up platform.

After this little farce there are very few announcements, the only info I have is via National Rail Enquiries on my phone which shows another southbound train not too far away.

Train pulls into platform, it is an eight car advertised on the side as terminating at Watford and absolutely heaving. Passengers are told to alight and catch the DC or bus to Watford MET, yet again nobody has a clue what this train will do next, passengers for Northampton are told that the 17:11 will run and will depart from Platform 6. When the mass of humanity has finally shoe-horned its way down the stairs, I stroll over to P.6, expecting a long wait as nothing has left Euston.

Whilst lurking on P.6, I become aware of the sound of a 350 pulling away; it is the train on P.9, now presumably devoid of passengers and heading South – no announcements no nothing. Perhaps it went ECS to Euston and there might have been a good reason for that if it did but, it arrived with a crew on board and a load of very inconvenienced people so why not take them as well?

Over on P.6, the 1st train was showing as the 17:11 to Northampton, my phone was showing at least three Virgin trains in front of it, the first of which is a Glasgow which duly rolled up with no announcements. After sitting there for several minutes one was made that people for Milton Keynes and Rugby could board this train. Second train appears which is for Manchester, nobody seems to know where it is going (surely it would show on TRUST or the overview screen if it was on the public NRE?).

By this time a gut instinct had told me that the Northampton would be off P.8 which turned out to be correct (TBF, this was announced in enough time for people to get over there)

The biggest problem IMO was that there was nobody “calling the shots” as used to happen in the days of rose-tinted spectacles – also, one thing I was always taught (being a dinosaur from that age) was that once a decision had been made, inform everybody then stick by that decision unless there is a real need (such as a safety issue) to change it.
 

ChiefPlanner

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Very good points made above - information is what always lets the railway down. (as well as sometimes having "couragous" supervision on site and chasing up things like that. Worth emailing LM about your observations , and I will certainly have a word tommorrow.

The incident cost 200 cancellations , 200+ part cancellations and over 13,500 delay mins.
 

Matt Taylor

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This is off topic but I had something like yours, going up to Waterloo from Southampton, and there were problems on the line between Woking and Waterloo so got diverted after Woking through Camberley(?) and the Kingston loop in to Clapham Junction from the Windsor lines. I wasn't complaining!


That would have been the Byfleet Curve, Chertsey, Staines, Putney and then Clapham.
 
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