WCRC loses judicial review in High Court

[Bikeman78]

Yes - given the real risk is probably more from window-hanging than a door being opened on the move, creating a situation where air-con stock is used encouraging pax to stand near the sole opening window (ie the door) is probably counter productive when it comes to safety! I do think this whole situation could have been avoided by simply mandating window bars, as BR did in the early 90s.

Most BR stock didn't have bars. The South Central and South Eastern divisions did but SWT never bothered. I don't think much (any?) mark 2 or 3 stock had bars. I shall continue to give railtours a miss and focus on preserved lines instead.

 

[paul1609]

Most BR stock didn't have bars. The South Central and South Eastern divisions did but SWT never bothered. I don't think much (any?) mark 2 or 3 stock had bars. I shall continue to give railtours a miss and focus on preserved lines instead.

Even on the South central and southeastern it was only limited stock for use on restricted clearance routes such as Oxted, Hastings etc.

 

[12LDA28C]

I do think this whole situation could have been avoided by simply mandating window bars, as BR did in the early 90s.

On tours that are not staffed by stewards at every door, window bars are again required, as fitted to LSL stock last year, for example.

 

[Bikeman78]

Even on the South central and southeastern it was only limited stock for use on restricted clearance routes such as Oxted, Hastings etc.

For the last few years, most units had bars so that they could go anywhere. Though I don't think the South Eastern CIGs got bars but they still turned up on any slam door route.

 

[renegademaster]

From what I've been told, hanging around by the doors is not allowed. I haven't done a tour for years so I can't comment from first hand experience.

Your not supposed to but it certainly happens on ones ive been on (largely uk railtours). Stewards tend to look the other way as long as you arent sticking your head out like a dog. Lets hope nobody from the ORR is reading this

 

[Wilts Wanderer]

Your not supposed to but it certainly happens on ones ive been on (largely uk railtours). Stewards tend to look the other way as long as you arent sticking your head out like a dog. Lets hope nobody from the ORR is reading this

Not my experience on WCRC railtours, in fact the opposite has been true - they get jittery (to the point of rudeness) if anyone even dares to stand in the corridor!

BR certainly fitted window bars to its mainline charter stock in the 1990s, which was more what I was referring to.

 

[LUYMun]

I do think this whole situation could have been avoided by simply mandating window bars, as BR did in the early 90s.

Enthusiasts of the day didn't appreciate being confined within the coaches, especially when interesting traction was hauling the tour, which ultimately diminishes the appeal of window hanging to see, smell and hear said traction. I also believe that Mk1 Intercity coaches did have bars installed but no window limiters on the at-seat droplights window sliders, so the point was ultimately defeated. Needless to say, when these IC coaches were sold to (I think?) spot-hire/railtour firms, the bars were promptly removed.

 

[renegademaster]

Not my experience on WCRC railtours, in fact the opposite has been true - they get jittery (to the point of rudeness) if anyone even dares to stand in the corridor!

BR certainly fitted window bars to its mainline charter stock in the 1990s, which was more what I was referring to.

Its more because they dont hace CDL i think
Uk railtours , and now any future WCRC , have CDL. Plus theyve been told off by ORR so are jittery for a reason

BR couldnt have mandated bars on all services , given fatal doorhanging accidents happened well into the 2010s, unless the HSTs had sat in a shed for the whole 90s

 

[Bikeman78]

Not my experience on WCRC railtours, in fact the opposite has been true - they get jittery (to the point of rudeness) if anyone even dares to stand in the corridor!

BR certainly fitted window bars to its mainline charter stock in the 1990s, which was more what I was referring to.

Fair enough. The Rhymney 37s were heavily enforced by stewards in 2019.

 

[30907]

I also believe that Mk1 Intercity coaches did have bars installed but no window limiters on the at-seat droplights,

I don't recall at-seat droplights (other than on suburban/VEP) doors - are you thinking of the sliders at the top.

 

[D6975]

Most BR stock didn't have bars. The South Central and South Eastern divisions did but SWT never bothered. I don't think much (any?) mark 2 or 3 stock had bars. I shall continue to give railtours a miss and focus on preserved lines instead.

The Mk2s used on the Cumbrian coast a few years ago all had window bars. I did a fair few miles travelling on those.

 

[LUYMun]

I don't recall at-seat droplights (other than on suburban/VEP) doors - are you thinking of the sliders at the top.

Yes, I meant those. I didn't know what the word for them was.

 

[30907]

Yes, I meant those. I didn't know what the word for them was.

Depending on whether or not there are tables, you have to be a bit of a contortionist to get more than your head out of those, though.
(Yes, I know there was a fashion for other parts of the anatomy to appear, but I don't think they posed a particular risk....)

 

[12LDA28C]

The Mk2s used on the Cumbrian coast a few years ago all had window bars. I did a fair few miles travelling on those.

I'm pretty sure that was more a specific requirement of stock working over the coast route due to the limited clearances. I was on a charter over the length of the Cumbrian Coast line in the 1990s and it was Mk1s fitted with window bars.

 

[D6130]

I'm pretty sure that was more a specific requirement of stock working over the coast route due to the limited clearances. I was on a charter over the length of the Cumbrian Coast line in the 1990s and it was Mk1s fitted with window bars.

Correct. This was due to the very restricted clearances of the original overbridges on the Maryport and Carlisle section.

 

[Wilts Wanderer]

Correct. This was due to the very restricted clearances of the original overbridges on the Maryport and Carlisle section.

Also Corkickle Tunnel at Whitehaven?

 

[D6130]

Also Corkickle Tunnel at Whitehaven?

I don't think so. I believe it has normal gauge clearance for a single line tunnel....but I'm open to correction from the local experts.

 

[JonathanH]

RTC Cumbrian Mountain Express reported on gen groups to be formed today of WCRC air conditioned Mark 2s, with a Mark 1 restaurant car.

86259 - 9493 6115 6724 3392 3395 3350 3352 1961 3326 3431 - 47746

 

[62484GlenLyon]

I can confirm the locos are as per last post. Train departed Milton Keynes 55 late and has been diverted via Northampton. We have been told 86259 had problems when running light from Rugby earlier and it is not able to run at full speed.

 

[Bill57p9]

RTC Cumbrian Mountain Express reported on gen groups to be formed today of WCRC air conditioned Mark 2s, with a Mark 1 restaurant car.

86259 - 9493 6115 6724 3392 3395 3350 3352 1961 3326 3431 - 47746

Video of that rake (more or less) a few days ago posted on YouTube:

 

[CHESHIRECAT]

Yesterday's CME terminated at Crewe! 3 hours late

 

[62484GlenLyon]

During the turn round at Preston yesterday there was a points failure which prevented 86259 being able to back onto the train. By the time this issue was resolved 1Z87 could get no further south than Crewe. Buses and taxis were used to get people back to the various pick up points. I was in a taxi that left Crewe about 00.50 and got to Milton Keynes Central at 02.50. I eventually got to bed nearly 24 hours after I had got up on Saturday morning.

 

[1Q18]

Reported elsewhere that the points issue was caused by 86259 passing a signal at danger and running through a set of points whilst shunting onto the set.

 

[CHESHIRECAT]

oh dear......

 

[mjc]

Wow. How long before they get shut down for good? It's one thing after another.

Allegedly!

 

[renegademaster]

Ive seen the same hearsay but am skeptical. I was there. 86259 first ran southbound at preston to try and cross the line and couple, but was instead sent back to platform 3 due to a points issue. Then it went northbound, back and passed us on the road to the left of us where we were waiting , then was stopped for a very long time for another points failure to be resolved.

This more suggests some problem with the electronics or the signaller for preston.

Note that once the issue was resolved we was allowed to go, which doesnt seem likely if the crew of 86259 had SPADed and destroyed 2 sets of points.

 

[12LDA28C]

I believe perhaps some were disc braked for use on the Edinburgh - Glasgow shuttles with 27s which I suspect is where the usual confusion comes from?

I believe VT operate 4 or 5 early Mk2 PVs which were vac-braked when built and are still vac-only, or is this incorrect?

 

[LowLevel]

I believe VT operate 4 or 5 early Mk2 PVs which were vac-braked when built and are still vac-only, or is this incorrect?

Correct, they were built for the West Coast electrification and then I think spent the rest of their lives more or less in Scotland.

 

[paul1609]

The advantage that Mk2s had is they were all Electric heat as built so had a far more robust Electrical System than the MK1s

 

[Rail Ranger]

I've heard that the slow running out of Euston in the morning and the diversion via Northampton was because the 47 on the back was limited to 75mph (due to the type of brake blocks it was fitted with?).