Weather disruption Sunday 17th July and following few days

[Bletchleyite]

The problem with that is that rails are stressed for a temperature range, and if the upper temperatures are increased, the lower ones have to be increased too, so you lose resilience in winter instead. Countries where 40is 'normal tend to have warmer winters than we do.

Or you do what countries that get both do, and use autumn and spring for a restressing programme.

Costly, but looking necessary.

 

[philosopher]

The problem with that is that rails are stressed for a temperature range, and if the upper temperatures are increased, the lower ones have to be increased too, so you lose resilience in winter instead. Countries where 40is 'normal tend to have warmer winters than we do.

What do they do in countries with continental climates, where both very high and very low temperatures are common, such most of the United States and Canada?

 

[Haywain]

Or you do what countries that get both do, and use autumn and spring for a restressing programme.

Costly, but looking necessary.

If the exceptional temperatures are for longer periods, yes, but with it only being a small number of days probably not justifiable. We also have to take account of the fact that much of the disruption isn't caused by rail temperatures but other factors such as overhead line equipment, and fires, equipment failures, staffing etc.

 

[The Planner]

New Street is now back open from the South Tunnel, Stour lines still blocked but at least some services are resuming.
Services from Wolves are going via Portobello (Heath Town)/Grand Junction so limited as New St don't sign that way

Crewe platform 1 is still Out of Passenger Use, platform 6 still in need of urgent repair also.

Shows the hot weather doesn't keep the Dingles at bay, 400m of catenary wire nicked apparently at Wolves?

 

[yorkie]

This is a UK Railway discussion thread to discuss the impact of the weather on the railway over the past few days.

It is not do discuss General Discussion matters.

If you see a thread go off topic please don't post any further off topic posts and instead report the first off topic post, using the report button.

Thanks

 

[Royston Vasey]

Thameslink/Great Northern have cancelled everything out of Kings Cross apart from an hourly Peterborough now, until after 11pm at least. A handful of LNER still running. What is the south ECML situation, is one running line open somewhere?

The Sandy fire seems the most dramatic damage in the area but this press release suggests there may be ongoing/outstanding inspections, so I assume this is why Cambridges would also be affected

The fire at Sandy has also meant that the planned inspection of over 250 miles of track on the southern end of the East Coast Main Line has not yet taken place. This means that these inspections to check whether any railway equipment has been damaged by Tuesday's record-breaking temperatures will need to be carried out on Wednesday. If any faults are found, these will need to be repaired before trains can run as normal again.

Check before you travel: Lasting impact of heat means severe disruption to services on East Coast Main Line today

Passengers planning on travelling on the East Coast Main Line today (Wednesday, 20 July) are being urged to plan ahead and check before travelling as severe disruption is expected.

www.networkrailmediacentre.co.uk

 

[Silver Cobra]

Thameslink/Great Northern have cancelled everything out of Kings Cross apart from an hourly Peterborough now, until after 11pm at least. A handful of LNER still running. What is the south ECML situation, is one running line open somewhere?

The Sandy fire seems the most dramatic damage in the area but this press release suggests there may be ongoing/outstanding inspections, so I assume this is why Cambridges would also be affected

Check before you travel: Lasting impact of heat means severe disruption to services on East Coast Main Line today

Passengers planning on travelling on the East Coast Main Line today (Wednesday, 20 July) are being urged to plan ahead and check before travelling as severe disruption is expected.

www.networkrailmediacentre.co.uk

Checking the related tweet on Network Rail's Twitter feed shows the damage the fire caused to the level crossing lights:

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FYF3q2eXwAAZI_a?format=jpg&name=large

 

[Haywain]

Checking the related tweet on Network Rail's Twitter feed shows the damage the fire caused to the level crossing lights:

View attachment 117967

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FYF3q2eXwAAZI_a?format=jpg&name=large

And I don't think the barrier should be at that angle either.

 

[TheManOnThe172]

EMR have issued a do not travel message for services in and out of London as the service itself has completely fallen apart. They expect it to be back to normal by 14:00 but this is already pushed back from 12:00 and 10:00 earlier

Two hours later and they haven't got around to adding this to their website (which at 1408 is still talking about things happening "until 1000"), let alone making any comment on whether Wednesday tickets will or won't be valid on Thursday.

Experience on the ground sounds as if they are still many hours short of "back to normal" - reports of big crowds waiting for London trains at Derby, with about one five-coach train an hour actually showing up (ie about a third of normal capacity) and so lots of passengers left behind. And no ticket acceptance via Tamworth for those without "any permitted" routing on their tickets (eg EMR Advance).

 

[800001]

Slightly ridiculous LNER haven’t implemented ticket acceptance on other routes.

Midland mainline was closed south of Leicester and Westcoast closed at Multiple locations south of and including Birmingham New street.
Where do you suggest LNER of sent those customers?

With 3Z05 crossing from the up and returning north. Presume route proving?

3Z05 needed to route prove between Newark and Doncaster and had to run in front of 1S04, however the points at north end of station could not get reverse detection, so 1S04 was sent north to recess at Carlton Loop, and 3Z05 did a wrong direction shunt to gain access to the Down Main.
That’s why the south bound services were queueing at Newark.

 

[BJames]

Two hours later and they haven't got around to adding this to their website (which at 1408 is still talking about things happening "until 1000"), let alone making any comment on whether Wednesday tickets will or won't be valid on Thursday.

Experience on the ground sounds as if they are still many hours short of "back to normal" - reports of big crowds waiting for London trains at Derby, with about one five-coach train an hour actually showing up (ie about a third of normal capacity) and so lots of passengers left behind. And no ticket acceptance via Tamworth for those without "any permitted" routing on their tickets (eg EMR Advance).

My friend was at St Pancras at 1100 ish and I saw a picture of the crowds there. Long story short, she abandoned her journey. Barely anything leaving and the sparse services I have seen leaving for SHF/NOT on RTT are very much full and standing (as you can imagine). She made the right decision I think as she is able to come tomorrow instead anyway.

 

[fgwrich]

While looking at the photos shared by Network Rail of yesterdays track buckling, one of them got me thinking (Vauxhall). While Urban areas will naturally be warmer, could the lining of buildings along the route into Waterloo become more of a hindrance and contribute to rail warming? Eg that sunlight has to reflect somewhere and the majority of those buildings are lined with glass, coupled with the warmer environment of an urban / central London setting.

 

[Haywain]

And no ticket acceptance via Tamworth for those without "any permitted" routing on their tickets (eg EMR Advance).

As with LNER, if the alternative routes also have disruption what would ticket acceptance achieve?

 

[Magdalen Road]

Thameslink/Great Northern have cancelled everything out of Kings Cross apart from an hourly Peterborough now, until after 11pm at least. A handful of LNER still running. What is the south ECML situation, is one running line open somewhere?

The Sandy fire seems the most dramatic damage in the area but this press release suggests there may be ongoing/outstanding inspections, so I assume this is why Cambridges would also be affected

Check before you travel: Lasting impact of heat means severe disruption to services on East Coast Main Line today

Passengers planning on travelling on the East Coast Main Line today (Wednesday, 20 July) are being urged to plan ahead and check before travelling as severe disruption is expected.

www.networkrailmediacentre.co.uk

Interesting as they're not updating the GTR website or Twitter feed with that info.
Does anyone have a clue whether the Ely - Kings Cross service will run tomorrow. I know the track at Watlington buckled again?
I had to give up on going to work today, as the first train kept getting pushed back and they're all showing as cancelled.

 

[Taunton]

OK, high temperatures passed.

Where did rail buckling actually happen? Presumably where it did there is considerable civils presence today. So which locations?

 

[sonic2009]

Interesting as they're not updating the GTR website or Twitter feed with that info.
Does anyone have a clue whether the Ely - Kings Cross service will run tomorrow. I know the track at Watlington buckled again?
I had to give up on going to work today, as the first train kept getting pushed back and they're all showing as cancelled.

Not sure whether a proving train needed to run between Cambridge and Hitchin - but a train went ECS at around 1400 via Royston and Hitchin to Hornsey 5E05 is the train in question. Appears to have travelled through okay.

 

[MikeWM]

Not sure whether a proving train needed to run between Cambridge and Hitchin - but a train went ECS at around 1400 via Royston and Hitchin to Hornsey 5E05 is the train in question. Appears to have travelled through okay.

At this point they seem to be running a (very occasional) shuttle between Cambridge and Kings Lynn, eg. this one

https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/service/gb-nr:60611/2022-07-20/detailed

that I saw leaving Cambridge North as I got off a southbound GA service.

(I wasn't intending to go to the office today, but the fools digging up the gas pipes on my road cut the power cable to my house this morning. I hope I can get home ok this evening).

 

[Banham7]

As with LNER, if the alternative routes also have disruption what would ticket acceptance achieve?

As advised by LNER Control, passengers for York and beyond; there is ticket acceptance with Northern, TPE & CrossCountry.

 

[800001]

OK, high temperatures passed.

Where did rail buckling actually happen? Presumably where it did there is considerable civils presence today. So which locations?

Rails are not the issue, vast majority of disruption has been caused by fires.

Fires adjacent to railways, spreading onto infrastructure and damaging signal cables and OHL.

Platforms have warped at Crewe, Milton Keynes Station bridge was in danger of collapse due to buckling.

(Photos below showing fire spreading and causing damage to infrastructure to the line at Everton Level crossing near Sandy, on the East Coast Mainline.

 

[aoa123]

Got the 12.12 nottm to st p. There was 11.50 same start and destination that also ran. Other nottm to st p canx prior and most of the subsequent also canx. Mine was 5 cars full and standing but not horrific. Journey was "normal" no evidence of speed restrictions. Plenty of emr sets sitting around in st p.

 

[sonic2009]

At this point they seem to be running a (very occasional) shuttle between Cambridge and Kings Lynn, eg. this one

https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/service/gb-nr:60611/2022-07-20/detailed

that I saw leaving Cambridge North as I got off a southbound GA service.

(I wasn't intending to go to the office today, but the fools digging up the gas pipes on my road cut the power cable to my house this morning. I hope I can get home ok this evening).

Seems to be a through service starting from London now 2C32 1422 London to Cambridge possibly seems to be the first service through today.

 

[Taunton]

Rails are not the issue, vast majority of disruption has been caused by fires.

Fires adjacent to railways, spreading onto infrastructure and damaging signal cables and OHL.

Thank you, but that was not my question. Before the heat the publicity was fully about rail buckling, which spread into the mass media with stories (doubtless originated from the railway) about how Global Warming was going to be causing rail buckling and thus disorganisation. So my question was, indeed, how many rail buckling events actually were there. A list, please.

There may indeed have been some lineside fires, not unknown to the railway, particularly in steam loco days, but these were never mentioned as the reason why some TOCs withdrew their services in advance.

 

[Haywain]

Thank you, but that was not my question. Before the heat the publicity was fully about rail buckling, which spread into the mass media with stories (doubtless originated from the railway) about how Global Warming was going to be causing rail buckling and thus disorganisation. So my question was, indeed, how many rail buckling events actually were there. A list, please.

There may indeed have been some lineside fires, not unknown to the railway, particularly in steam loco days, but these were never mentioned as the reason why some TOCs withdrew their services in advance.

It's not simply one thing though. Rail buckling is possible and expansion may be exacerbated by having trains run over such rails. However, lines with overhead power equipment suffer from expansion in the equipment too, and there also also potential equipment failures and so on, because nothing in the system is designed to operate in temperatures that are extreme for this country. The railway is operated on a safety first principle, and in such conditions the decisions made look to be the right ones.

 

[jednick]

I have an advance purchase ticket for the 7.04 Birmingham to Liverpool Lime Street train, using the direct London NorthWestern service, this Friday.

Is it likely this train will be running? All of them are cancelled today.

If not, would I be allowed to get to Liverpool using other operator's trains (say CrossCountry to Stafford), or would I have to stick to West Midlands Railway / London NorthWestern services only ?

 

[Taunton]

It's not simply one thing though. Rail buckling is possible and expansion may be exacerbated by having trains run over such rails. However, lines with overhead power equipment suffer from expansion in the equipment too, and there also also potential equipment failures and so on, because nothing in the system is designed to operate in temperatures that are extreme for this country. The railway is operated on a safety first principle, and in such conditions the decisions made look to be the right ones.

Thank you again, but I'm not currently interested in overhead wire tension, or lineside fires, or potential for plagues of locusts, or whatever, but in what the railway substantially publicised beforehand, which as most will have seen was rail buckling.

I am presuming the answer is zero.

 

[skyhigh]

I have an advance purchase ticket for the 7.04 Birmingham to Liverpool Lime Street train, using the direct London NorthWestern service, this Friday.

Is it likely this train will be running? All of them are cancelled today.

If not, would I be allowed to get to Liverpool using other operator's trains (say CrossCountry to Stafford), or would I have to stick to West Midlands Railway / London NorthWestern services only ?

I don't see why they'd not be running by Friday.

 

[AndrewE]

I have an advance purchase ticket for the 7.04 Birmingham to Liverpool Lime Street train, using the direct London NorthWestern service, this Friday.

Is it likely this train will be running? All of them are cancelled today.

If not, would I be allowed to get to Liverpool using other operator's trains (say CrossCountry to Stafford), or would I have to stick to West Midlands Railway / London NorthWestern services only ?

If the wires aren't fixed by Friday you might be better changing at Stoke and Crewe rather than Stafford. Just depends what emergency timetables have been put in.

 

[800001]

Thank you again, but I'm not currently interested in overhead wire tension, or lineside fires, or potential for plagues of locusts, or whatever, but in what the railway substantially publicised beforehand, which as most will have seen was rail buckling.

I am presuming the answer is zero.

Well here is one for a start, a quick Google search found this

https://twitter.com/networkrail/status/1549031491941933062?s=21&t=MN-_C_-t7F1aWR0xcCdlaw

 

[LAX54]

What do they do in countries with continental climates, where both very high and very low temperatures are common, such most of the United States and Canada?

Well, the USA seems to suffer from regular derailments !

 

[GB]

Thank you again, but I'm not currently interested in overhead wire tension, or lineside fires, or potential for plagues of locusts, or whatever, but in what the railway substantially publicised beforehand, which as most will have seen was rail buckling.

I am presuming the answer is zero.

The answer is not zero as I am sure you know fully well. However even if there was fewer buckling incidents than expected what does that prove to you? Maybe the fact the the service was so thin and freights all but cancelled was the reason the buckling incident number is lower?