overthewater
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I was looking around Flickr and come across these very weird looking buses. What is the deal with the second/middle doors? did the conductor control them? Why do they slide open?
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Weird Middle Door on West Midlands buses in the 1960s
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jp4712
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Ah, you have encountered the eccentricity of Edgley Cox, General Manager of Walsall Corporation Transport. Mr Cox had a number of ‘interesting’ ideas and one of them was to use these buses with a driver and conductor during the peak, with passengers entering and leaving via the large centre door; and one-person operation during off-peak periods, with people entering via the narrow front door (and possibly with the upstairs blocked off, but not sure on that point).
The sliding door (known within the industry as a ‘bacon slicer’ door) was to provide the widest possible aperture.
In fact it gets even better/weirder: two of the photos show buses that didn’t have a front entrance at all, but which got one later once Walsall Corporation was absorbed by West Midlands PTE. All four pics show ex-Walsall buses in later life with West Midlands PTE.
The sliding door (known within the industry as a ‘bacon slicer’ door) was to provide the widest possible aperture.
In fact it gets even better/weirder: two of the photos show buses that didn’t have a front entrance at all, but which got one later once Walsall Corporation was absorbed by West Midlands PTE. All four pics show ex-Walsall buses in later life with West Midlands PTE.
A few bus operators specified sliding doors on buses, but they weren't that common.
These would have been air operated and controlled by the driver.
This batch was built without a front door, just the central door, for Walsall Corporation - photo of one as built (not mine / not my photo) on Flickr here.
At the time they were built, it wasn't legal to use a double deck bus in service without a conductor.
They were rebuilt with a (small) front door so they could be used as one person operated.
These would have been air operated and controlled by the driver.
This batch was built without a front door, just the central door, for Walsall Corporation - photo of one as built (not mine / not my photo) on Flickr here.
At the time they were built, it wasn't legal to use a double deck bus in service without a conductor.
They were rebuilt with a (small) front door so they could be used as one person operated.
SLC001
Member
Mr Cox had a wandering mind and was interested in new ideas and developing them. Rear engined buses appealed to him and so he ordered a batch of Fleetlines with the single door "in the Middle". This was at a time when one man operation of double deckers was not thought likely. The reason for the short length was because Mr Cox wanted buses that could get around housing estates where the roads were quite narrow and access difficult. Short length buses helped in that respect. The reason for the single door on these early buses being where it is, results from the fact that Walsall had a number of youthful front engined buses with a front entrance and the central bus station in Walsall was designed for these types of vehicles. So the middle door was positioned where it would be on a front engined double decker of similar length! As Mr Cox said later, it was cheaper to have the Fleetlines modified to have the door near the centre than to rebuild the bus station.
Later Fleetlines were slightly longer and had a door at the front as well as in the centre but of course by then OMO of double deckers was a serious possibility. The legislation to allow OMO of double deckers actually followed quite quicker than the industry expected and a number of operators had ordered large numbers of single single deckers only to find that double decked OMO was possible. Liverpool comes to mind. When taken over by WMPTE the early Fleetlines were modified by Lex (Stour Valley) to include a front entrance by the driver so they could be used for OMO as WMPTE desperately needed new OMO buses. Consequently, many of these early buses ended their days at Wolverhampton.
Later Fleetlines were slightly longer and had a door at the front as well as in the centre but of course by then OMO of double deckers was a serious possibility. The legislation to allow OMO of double deckers actually followed quite quicker than the industry expected and a number of operators had ordered large numbers of single single deckers only to find that double decked OMO was possible. Liverpool comes to mind. When taken over by WMPTE the early Fleetlines were modified by Lex (Stour Valley) to include a front entrance by the driver so they could be used for OMO as WMPTE desperately needed new OMO buses. Consequently, many of these early buses ended their days at Wolverhampton.
One such bus survives as part of the collection at Wythall https://www.wythall.org.uk/vehicles/vxdh516g.asp
Busaholic
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It wasn't only buses Edgley Cox was interested in. Walsall had a trolleybus system that was still expanding in the 1960s and finally ended in 1970, one of the last to survive. He was planning to have built a new generation of trolleybuses with three doors and two staircases, so a 'New Routemaster' type if you like. A maverick visionary.
Rikki Lamb
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He sounds like the Oliver Bulleid of the bus world!
I believe he was Bradford lad too, he was a student apprentice at Bradford CPT before moving to London Transport Executive and back to Bradford.
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Springs Branch
Established Member
The other operator which dabbled with this design - short Fleetline, very narrow front door & centre "bacon slicer" - was the SHMD Board*, east of Manchester.
These odd-looking buses, repainted in SELNEC orange & white, were one of the signature sights of my youth, regularly seen in Piccadilly Gardens on route 125 to Old Glossop.
One example in original SHMD green and cream is here.
Another specimen in GMT orange is on the Museum of Transport Greater Manchester Flickr photostream at:- https://www.flickr.com/photos/gmts/32301451104.
Commentary around how this unusual layout came to be chosen by a bus operator in the Pennine foothills suggests there was no direct connection between Mr Cox / Walsall Corporation Transport and the SHMD Board; rather it speculates that, as a thrifty Northern municipal, "SHMD chose to buy some Walsall-pattern buses, perhaps being offered a discount by Northern Counties who no doubt were looking for customers to help defray the development costs over a larger production run".
* - Stalybridge, Hyde, Mossley and Dukinfield Joint Transport Board.
These odd-looking buses, repainted in SELNEC orange & white, were one of the signature sights of my youth, regularly seen in Piccadilly Gardens on route 125 to Old Glossop.
One example in original SHMD green and cream is here.
Another specimen in GMT orange is on the Museum of Transport Greater Manchester Flickr photostream at:- https://www.flickr.com/photos/gmts/32301451104.
Commentary around how this unusual layout came to be chosen by a bus operator in the Pennine foothills suggests there was no direct connection between Mr Cox / Walsall Corporation Transport and the SHMD Board; rather it speculates that, as a thrifty Northern municipal, "SHMD chose to buy some Walsall-pattern buses, perhaps being offered a discount by Northern Counties who no doubt were looking for customers to help defray the development costs over a larger production run".
* - Stalybridge, Hyde, Mossley and Dukinfield Joint Transport Board.