• Our booking engine at tickets.railforums.co.uk (powered by TrainSplit) helps support the running of the forum with every ticket purchase! Find out more and ask any questions/give us feedback in this thread!

Were the 1950s 4 wheel railbuses a total failure?

Status
Not open for further replies.

30907

Veteran Member
Joined
30 Sep 2012
Messages
18,081
Location
Airedale
If only they had known about a chap called Rick Stein in the sixties. A (Plymouth)-Bodmin Road-Bodmin-Wadebridge-Padstow service would, today, probably make money, in summer at least, but it wasn't just Beeching, the Western Region was determined to eliminate as much of the old Southern in its patch as possible.
Bodmin Rd-Wadebridge was almost entirely operated by WR stock.
The Worth Valley line has two of the German-built railbuses.
Scroll down page at:
And one has been in use on recent weekdays (instead of the 101). As on my first or second visit 50 years ago...
 
Sponsor Post - registered members do not see these adverts; click here to register, or click here to log in
R

RailUK Forums

Calthrop

Established Member
Joined
6 Dec 2015
Messages
3,307
I think that on a number of lines, presumably ones where they took over directly from steam, they caused passenger numbers to go up so much that they had to be replaced by DMUs or loco and coaches, which meant that part of the savings immediately disappeared. Just about the only ones of their services to survive were the Braintree branch and the stub to Sudbury of the Marks Tey-Cambridge one.

This is admittedly "nitpicking and hairsplitting": but my understanding (could be wrong here) has been that railbus services on the Marks Tey -- Sudbury section were "exceptional", not routine -- the units were used on the Witham to Braintree, and Maldon, branches; also on the Audley End -- Saffron Walden -- Bartlow service. Railbuses were transferred when necessary, in the interests of servicing / maintenance, between these two venues: when they did so, performing revenue-earning passenger runs on the normally DMU-worked intervening lines -- via the Colne Valley & Halstead line until that closed in, I think (haven't got the book handy) 1961; from then till closure of both Maldon, and Saffron Walden, lines in 1964, presumably running Bartlow -- Long Melford -- Sudbury -- Marks Tey.


In one sense they were doomed to "failure". Where they were well received, traffic outgrew them; where they were sufficient for the traffic, the line was probably a basket case.
Their German cousins lasted much longer (I believe one still operates) but once a line was down to a single rail bus pulling no trailers the writing was usually on the wall. Some still ( not really) earning their keep further east

(My bolding) I find this "equation" extremely saddening (although probably very true) -- very-small railbuses are "damned", whichever way things go ! I admit to being a hopeless sentimentalist about hopeless highly rural and highly minor passenger lines. The idea of very small single railmotors for such lines was not, as at the 1960s, in itself all that new -- some European countries had turned on a fair scale to this way of trying to handle such situations, starting from the early 1920s. Great Britain was definitely not among those countries, especially re its major railway companies and their branch lines; more happened on that scene, from early on, in Ireland -- notably in that island's more northerly reaches: the Great Southern was, if I'm right, not interested.


Discussion of Germany's counterparts to BR's four-wheel railbuses brings to mind a matter coeval dates-wise with this experiment of BR's, in another Continental country: that which used to be Yugoslavia. As at certainly the late 1960s, and for long after: the Yugoslav Railways owned and ran large numbers of railbuses very similar in appearance to the British and German ones discussed upthread; in a standard silver livery. Yugoslavia and its railways were many things; but inclining boringly to follow the herd, was not one of them. Yugoslav Railways' standard practice was to run these units in multiple: in my admittedly fairly small first-hand experience of that scene (two briefish visits, in 1970 and 1982), numbers anything between two; and "the sky seemed to be the limit". Presumably things were so arranged that there was one driver to handle the whole equipage. Served thus, were not just small back-of-beyond branches; but a good many secondary lines higher in the "pecking order" -- a line's railbus-constituted workings appeared very often to be intermixed, seemingly randomly, with loco-hauled-passenger-stock ones. I seem to recall seeing some time in the past few years, an item telling of at the time of its appearance: these units finally becoming extinct in regular service, in any of the countries which used to be Yugoslavia.
 

A0wen

On Moderation
Joined
19 Jan 2008
Messages
7,481
If only they had known about a chap called Rick Stein in the sixties. A (Plymouth)-Bodmin Road-Bodmin-Wadebridge-Padstow service would, today, probably make money, in summer at least, but it wasn't just Beeching, the Western Region was determined to eliminate as much of the old Southern in its patch as possible.

Details of all the 5 different railbuses (AC, Bristol / ECW, Park Royal, W&M and Wickham) are all here: https://railcar.co.uk/type/

And the preserved ones are listed here http://preserved.railcar.co.uk/DRB.html

Basically 4 x WM and 2 x AC have survived, the ex GCR one which was heavily stripped down for many years is one of the two AC survivors the other is now at the Swindon & Cricklade having been at the Colne Valley for many years though out of use since ~ 2004.
 

6Gman

Established Member
Joined
1 May 2012
Messages
8,433
If only they had known about a chap called Rick Stein in the sixties. A (Plymouth)-Bodmin Road-Bodmin-Wadebridge-Padstow service would, today, probably make money, in summer at least, but it wasn't just Beeching, the Western Region was determined to eliminate as much of the old Southern in its patch as possible.
That's the problem. Summer Saturdays and it was very busy - for, what, 8 days a year?
 

24Grange

Member
Joined
7 Jan 2021
Messages
237
Location
Baldock
It also isn't (wasn't) a straight forward branch line. All that mucking about in Bodmin which can't have helped matters
 

nanstallon

Member
Joined
18 Dec 2015
Messages
752
It also isn't (wasn't) a straight forward branch line. All that mucking about in Bodmin which can't have helped matters
Crossing passenger trains at Bodmin General, with only one platform, must have been difficult. Now, in preservation days, there is a second platform.
 

341o2

Established Member
Joined
17 Oct 2011
Messages
1,907
That's the problem. Summer Saturdays and it was very busy - for, what, 8 days a year?
Many businesses are seasonal - for example growing Christmas trees - the problem was that the country couldn't afford the railways, so something had to go, and that included the Atlantic Coast Express, meaning the branch lines could not survive on local traffic, so they went as well.
 

Cowley

Forum Staff
Staff Member
Global Moderator
Joined
15 Apr 2016
Messages
15,795
Location
Devon
Crossing passenger trains at Bodmin General, with only one platform, must have been difficult. Now, in preservation days, there is a second platform.

Blimey I didn’t even realise they’d done that! I was just about to swoop in with “I think you’ll find…” :lol:
 

davetheguard

Established Member
Joined
10 Apr 2013
Messages
1,811
Blimey I didn’t even realise they’d done that! I was just about to swoop in with “I think you’ll find…” :lol:

I believe the second platform at Bodmin has only just been built; it certainly wasn't there when I last visited the railway just before Covid.
 

montyburns56

Member
Joined
5 Oct 2015
Messages
173
As far as Scotland is concerned, I don't think that they saved any lines from total closure, but they probably prolonged services for a few extra years. As a child, I remember seeing them - and on one occasion riding on them - on the Craigendoran-Arrochar local service at the Southern end of the West Highland Line. Our local station at Rhu had been closed in 1956 and lost its signal box and passing loop. It was reopened, as a single-platformed unstaffed halt, when the service changed over from a steam-worked push-pull set to a diesel railbus in 1960. This undoubtably brought about a huge saving in operating costs, but the railbuses were not very reliable and frequently had to be replaced by a class 27 with two old suburban coaches. This increased traincrew and fuel costs and caused time loss because of the need to run round at each terminating station. Eventually, BR gave up and the service was withdrawn after the 1964 Summer season. Other Scottish services which used raibuses in the 'sixties were Grangemouth-Falkirk-Larbert-Alloa, Gleneagles-Crieff-Comrie, Aviemore-Craigellachie, Kilmarnock-Troon-Ayr and Ayr-Dalmellington....none of which were saved by them, although the Kilmarnock-Troon line, which had remained open for freight traffic, was subsequently reopened to passengers in the late 'seventies.

Thanks, I did wonder if they at least might have extended the life of these branches even if they did eventually face the inevitable axe.

I think that on a number of lines, presumably ones where they took over directly from steam, they caused passenger numbers to go up so much that they had to be replaced by DMUs or loco and coaches, which meant that part of the savings immediately disappeared. Just about the only ones of their services to survive were the Braintree branch and the stub to Sudbury of the Marks Tey-Cambridge one.

Right, I did wonder if them being new and modern looking might have attracted new traffic to a line, even if the reality of using them probably didn't quite match up to the image they portrayed.

Airfix did one of the 5, can't remember which.


About par for modernisation plan stuff!

Yes, there did seem to be an element of throw a lot of **** at a wall and see what sticks when it came to BR's procurement process in the 1950s and 60s.
 
Last edited:

24Grange

Member
Joined
7 Jan 2021
Messages
237
Location
Baldock
I think if it was along side a total look at the costs of a branch ( which happened in the 1970's) Absolute minimum track (Long siding for a branch). Minimum signalling. Absolutely no staff if possible ( stations) - no ticket offices ( pay on train). Sell off everything except minimum ( no station buildings - demolish or ideally sell or rent ) any additional land not needed, ex goods yards and sheds. Level crossings to unmanned automatic. No parcels,newspapers,milk or any kind of freight.No maintenance of track, no vegetation clearance.

That may ( underlined) may have kept a few branches open along side DMU singles. You were also up against , in the west country a vindictive WR region, that wanted to completely eradicate SR from its area, with a very heavy hand. I think Barbara Castle turned the corner after Beeching with her social railway, otherwise we would have had Serpell and even worse by now !
 

30907

Veteran Member
Joined
30 Sep 2012
Messages
18,081
Location
Airedale
I think if it was along side a total look at the costs of a branch ( which happened in the 1970's) Absolute minimum track (Long siding for a branch). Minimum signalling. Absolutely no staff if possible ( stations) - no ticket offices ( pay on train). Sell off everything except minimum ( no station buildings - demolish or ideally sell or rent ) any additional land not needed, ex goods yards and sheds. Level crossings to unmanned automatic. No parcels,newspapers,milk or any kind of freight.
Unfortunately, that doesn't seem to have happened on any great scale with railbus routes (unless you count Boscarne Junction to Bodmin N).
 

RT4038

Established Member
Joined
22 Feb 2014
Messages
4,231
I think if it was along side a total look at the costs of a branch ( which happened in the 1970's) Absolute minimum track (Long siding for a branch). Minimum signalling. Absolutely no staff if possible ( stations) - no ticket offices ( pay on train). Sell off everything except minimum ( no station buildings - demolish or ideally sell or rent ) any additional land not needed, ex goods yards and sheds. Level crossings to unmanned automatic. No parcels,newspapers,milk or any kind of freight.No maintenance of track, no vegetation clearance.

That may ( underlined) may have kept a few branches open along side DMU singles. You were also up against , in the west country a vindictive WR region, that wanted to completely eradicate SR from its area, with a very heavy hand. I think Barbara Castle turned the corner after Beeching with her social railway, otherwise we would have had Serpell and even worse by now !
One man operation - driver collecting the fares - would be a prerequisite too. It would quite literally have to be a bus on rails. I don't think the option of not maintaining the track would really be a long term option, and the cost would probably still doom the enterprise.
 

24Grange

Member
Joined
7 Jan 2021
Messages
237
Location
Baldock
Agreed - not thinking " in the round" going to the expense of nice, more efficient railbuses, but not doing anything on the environment and working practices/rails they are being used on (Victorian Steam railway, fully signaled and staffed). Bit like buying a new electric car and having it pulled everywhere by a carthorse - the mind set hadn't changed.

I was thinking of preventative maintenance ( PW gangs with their length of "prize" track) - only fix something if its broken.
 

The exile

Established Member
Joined
31 Mar 2010
Messages
2,725
Location
Somerset
One man operation - driver collecting the fares - would be a prerequisite too. It would quite literally have to be a bus on rails. I don't think the option of not maintaining the track would really be a long term option, and the cost would probably still doom the enterprise.
As indeed was done by the Germans. Even a few 628 operated services had the driver selling strip tickets.
 

Taunton

Established Member
Joined
1 Aug 2013
Messages
10,099
I think if it was along side a total look at the costs of a branch ( which happened in the 1970's) Absolute minimum track (Long siding for a branch). Minimum signalling. Absolutely no staff if possible ( stations) - no ticket offices ( pay on train). Sell off everything except minimum ( no station buildings - demolish or ideally sell or rent ) any additional land not needed, ex goods yards and sheds. Level crossings to unmanned automatic. No parcels,newspapers,milk or any kind of freight.No maintenance of track, no vegetation clearance.

That may ( underlined) may have kept a few branches open along side DMU singles. You were also up against , in the west country a vindictive WR region, that wanted to completely eradicate SR from its area, with a very heavy hand. I think Barbara Castle turned the corner after Beeching with her social railway, otherwise we would have had Serpell and even worse by now !
Gerry Fiennes, prominent railway manager of the 1960s, made a good stab at this in East Anglia with his "Basic Railway". Unstaffed stations, pay on train - all a new concept. Unfortunately it was shortly after Hixon, when AHB crossings were out of favour, and as he said the signalman costs were about half the total expenses for the line.

And we really have to move on from claiming the WR having closed much of the old Southern network in its area out of spite. It was a complete financial basket case; nobody was using it. The first thing the WR did on takeover was dieselise it - often just with single car units, still more than adequate. Unlike others here I actually rode it - only person in the front dmu car of a 3-car set from Barnstaple to Ilfracombe - as I had been from Taunton to Barnstaple. Because a fair bit of the old GWR stuff was as well - why were all the branches from Taunton closed in short order? The Southern actually gave up on promoting Plymouth being a major destination in the 1920s, it taking even the ACE over 2 hours on their line from Exeter to Plymouth, having realised that the GWR line was scooping almost all the trade.
 

Gloster

Established Member
Joined
4 Sep 2020
Messages
8,445
Location
Up the creek
By the early 1960s you were fifteen years into nationalisation and plenty of managers would have moved around the regions, so the Western Region was no longer a GWR fiefdom. Of course there were some who retained the old allegiances (there were still one or two about when I was on the WR twenty years later), but I doubt if there were enough to enact any form of vindictive inter-company closure policy.
 

Gostav

Member
Joined
14 May 2016
Messages
415
Discussion of Germany's counterparts to BR's four-wheel railbuses brings to mind a matter coeval dates-wise with this experiment of BR's, in another Continental country: that which used to be Yugoslavia. As at certainly the late 1960s, and for long after: the Yugoslav Railways owned and ran large numbers of railbuses very similar in appearance to the British and German ones discussed upthread; in a standard silver livery. Yugoslavia and its railways were many things; but inclining boringly to follow the herd, was not one of them. Yugoslav Railways' standard practice was to run these units in multiple: in my admittedly fairly small first-hand experience of that scene (two briefish visits, in 1970 and 1982), numbers anything between two; and "the sky seemed to be the limit". Presumably things were so arranged that there was one driver to handle the whole equipage. Served thus, were not just small back-of-beyond branches; but a good many secondary lines higher in the "pecking order" -- a line's railbus-constituted workings appeared very often to be intermixed, seemingly randomly, with loco-hauled-passenger-stock ones. I seem to recall seeing some time in the past few years, an item telling of at the time of its appearance: these units finally becoming extinct in regular service, in any of the countries which used to be Yugoslavia.

In Czechia similar small single car rail bus Class 810 still can be found on countryside lines and serviced as well, l think "small capacity" is not the major problem.

IMG_20210512_065128.jpg
 

70014IronDuke

Established Member
Joined
13 Jun 2015
Messages
3,699
I remember reading somewhere that when introduced on the Bedford-Hitchen branch, the railbuses certainly led to an increase in traffic, at least on Saturdays - so much so that the push-pull steam working had to be re-introduced as a relief working for shoppers.

This would have been either 1958 or 59, I suppose. Of course, one well filled service per week does not a profitable line make. Furthermore, increasing car ownership and the fact that Bedford Midland Rd was not well sited for shoppers (even in the old location) probably meant that these well-loaded services were probably only of a temporary nature.
 

nanstallon

Member
Joined
18 Dec 2015
Messages
752
Gerry Fiennes, prominent railway manager of the 1960s, made a good stab at this in East Anglia with his "Basic Railway". Unstaffed stations, pay on train - all a new concept. Unfortunately it was shortly after Hixon, when AHB crossings were out of favour, and as he said the signalman costs were about half the total expenses for the line.

And we really have to move on from claiming the WR having closed much of the old Southern network in its area out of spite. It was a complete financial basket case; nobody was using it. The first thing the WR did on takeover was dieselise it - often just with single car units, still more than adequate. Unlike others here I actually rode it - only person in the front dmu car of a 3-car set from Barnstaple to Ilfracombe - as I had been from Taunton to Barnstaple. Because a fair bit of the old GWR stuff was as well - why were all the branches from Taunton closed in short order? The Southern actually gave up on promoting Plymouth being a major destination in the 1920s, it taking even the ACE over 2 hours on their line from Exeter to Plymouth, having realised that the GWR line was scooping almost all the trade.
I agree; the writing had long been on the wall for the 'Withered Arm'. The WR main line between Exeter and Plymouth served more towns and carried Paignton traffic on the way as far as Newton Abbot. It had otherwise been shorn of all its branch lines (Teign Valley 1958, Moretonhampstead 1959, Ashburton 1958, Kingsbridge already under closure process at the time of the Beeching Report and closed the same year 1963, Launceston 1962), and the WR always had been keen on closing lines elsewhere on a pretty big scale (e.g. all lines to Brecon) before Beeching. The SR on the other hand seemed to have forgotten all about its western outposts, which is why Halwill - Torrington was still running passenger trains full of fresh air at the time of the Beeching Report, but was no slouch at closing lines nearer London, e.g. the Westerham branch and most of the Isle of Wight.

There was never any contest about which of the two main lines between Exeter and Plymouth was the one to keep, if a choice had to be made. Personally, I think they should both have been kept because Plymouth is too big to be cut off if the one route is blocked, as happened in 2014. But it is not realistic to say that the Okehampton route was closed out of spite, even though it was a mistake. As for the rest of the Withered Arm, the SR route from Exeter to Barnstaple was preferred to the WR line from Taunton, which was more direct from London and Bristol, so no anti-SR prejudice there. The rest of the Withered Arm was a dead loss, except possibly Ilfracombe. If I'd been in charge, I would have said to the good doctor, "you're right basically but you've gone a bit too far - keep both routes to Plymouth, reopen Lydford to Launceston to serve North Cornwall, keep Taunton to Barnstaple and possibly Ilfracombe, OK shut the rest."
 

Taunton

Established Member
Joined
1 Aug 2013
Messages
10,099
Ilfracombe would not survive because the spindly and rickety iron viaduct over the River Taw at Barnstaple was at the end of its life. If not, the service could have at least been retained one more stop to the old Barnstaple Town station, which was sited as named, unlike the current station, onetime Barnstaple Junction, which is actually in the next town - any Barnstaple taxi driver would say they were going to Sticklepath rather than Barnstaple. The viaduct at the end I think had a 10mph limit, and the foundations were starting to sink into the mud. Locomotives may have been banned for the last year or two. Being the Bristol Channel, it's notably tidal there and a century of water rushing in and out twice a day had taken its toll. The stumps are still visible at low tide tracing its 90-degree curve.

But, alas, Ilfracombe station was no better situated for the town, being high above the centre, and in typical Westcountry (both LSWR and GWR) style, was the highest and furthest-out building in the town. You actually walked past open fields down towards the centre. The prospect of walking up there with suitcases at the end of a seafront holiday or day out would be daunting. Of course, the Southern National bus from Barnstaple ran right down through the town. And even 60 years ago just about everyone living there who might travel had cars.
 

nanstallon

Member
Joined
18 Dec 2015
Messages
752
Ilfracombe would not survive because the spindly and rickety iron viaduct over the River Taw at Barnstaple was at the end of its life. If not, the service could have at least been retained one more stop to the old Barnstaple Town station, which was sited as named, unlike the current station, onetime Barnstaple Junction, which is actually in the next town - any Barnstaple taxi driver would say they were going to Sticklepath rather than Barnstaple. The viaduct at the end I think had a 10mph limit, and the foundations were starting to sink into the mud. Locomotives may have been banned for the last year or two. Being the Bristol Channel, it's notably tidal there and a century of water rushing in and out twice a day had taken its toll. The stumps are still visible at low tide tracing its 90-degree curve.

But, alas, Ilfracombe station was no better situated for the town, being high above the centre, and in typical Westcountry (both LSWR and GWR) style, was the highest and furthest-out building in the town. You actually walked past open fields down towards the centre. The prospect of walking up there with suitcases at the end of a seafront holiday or day out would be daunting. Of course, the Southern National bus from Barnstaple ran right down through the town. And even 60 years ago just about everyone living there who might travel had cars.
Barnstaple Town was on the wrong side of the River Taw, so would have had the same problem as Ilfracombe. So, Minister of Transport Mr Nanstallon deciding on proposals to close all lines to North Devon (OK they never put Exeter - Barnstaple up for closure, although it was considered in 1965 due to another bridge needing replacement!) - "I consider that unacceptable hardship would be caused to users of the stations at Morebath, East Anstey, Yeo Mill and Bishops Nympton and Molland, due to the poor roads and vulnerability to being cut off in winter. The line between Exeter and Barnstaple runs beside the A377 main road and so the stations on this line could be adequately served by buses. I therefore refuse consent to closure of Taunton - Barnstaple, but consent to closure of the Exeter - Ilfracombe line on condition that Barnstaple Victoria Road is reopened, being closer to the town centre and where replacement coaches meeting trains, to serve Ilfracombe will be less subject to traffic delays than if they met trains at Barnstaple Junction." Western Region, faced with having to do some major maintenance on the rather worn out and rickety line from Taunton, would not have been happy!
 

24Grange

Member
Joined
7 Jan 2021
Messages
237
Location
Baldock
Sidmouth was another one, mile or more ? outside the town and up a rise from the sea front. Definitely didn't help patronage. Although didn't help Seaton ( on the flat in the town almost within sight of the sea) But did help Exmouth, on the flat, in the town - 20 minutes on the flat to the sea.
 

nanstallon

Member
Joined
18 Dec 2015
Messages
752
Sidmouth was another one, mile or more ? outside the town and up a rise from the sea front. Definitely didn't help patronage. Although didn't help Seaton ( on the flat in the town almost within sight of the sea) But did help Exmouth, on the flat, in the town - 20 minutes on the flat to the sea.
Exmouth always had heavy commuter traffic to and from Exeter. BR decided not to even put the Exeter to Exmouth line up for closure, although it was on Beeching's hit-list. Now a half hourly service throughout the day and often standing room only.

But the summer Saturday suitcase traffic holiday extras didn't last - there was a through train to and from Waterloo via Budleigh Salterton and Sidmouth Junction until 1965, possibly 1966 too, and one via Topsham and Exeter St Davids to Manchester (but not back!) until the late 60s.
 

Taunton

Established Member
Joined
1 Aug 2013
Messages
10,099
on condition that Barnstaple Victoria Road is reopened, being closer to the town centre and where replacement coaches meeting trains, to serve Ilfracombe will be less subject to traffic delays than if they met trains at Barnstaple Junction."
Actually the Southern National bus service Ilfracombe-Barnstaple-Bideford, the only mainstream interval service with double deckers in the whole of North Devon, ran every 20-30 minutes right past Barnstaple Junction station in Sticklepath, crossing the line on the old bridge at the west end of the station. It went nowhere near Victoria Road, but did of course penetrate the centres of all the towns along its route.

With more recent road changes the main road (and the buses) have been realigned well away from the station, the old main road now being a cul-de-sac on both sides and the old bridge demolished, although being just beyond the buffers there is now no track to cross. The new road uses the old curve of the Ilfracombe line from Junction station towards the river bridge. An industrial estate built right across the front of the station has made it even less accessible to the town than before.

Barnstaple had had a substantial amount of road investment since the lines closed, a lovely fast new main road from the M5 motorway right by Tiverton Parkway station (now its well-used railhead) to passing the town and on past Bideford, and also a town bypass with two new mainstream river bridges either side of the town. They are far busier than the railway could ever hope to have been.
 
Last edited:

nanstallon

Member
Joined
18 Dec 2015
Messages
752
Actually the Southern National bus service Ilfracombe-Barnstaple-Bideford, the only mainstream interval service with double deckers in the whole of North Devon, ran every 20-30 minutes right past Barnstaple Junction station in Sticklepath, crossing the line on the old bridge at the west end of the station. It went nowhere near Victoria Road, but did of course penetrate the centres of all the towns along its route.

With more recent road changes the main road (and the buses) have been realigned well away from the station, the old main road now being a cul-de-sac on both sides and the old bridge demolished, although being just beyond the buffers there is now no track to cross. The new road uses the old curve of the Ilfracombe line from Junction station towards the river bridge. An industrial estate built right across the front of the station has made it even less accessible to the town than before.

Barnstaple had had a substantial amount of road investment since the lines closed, a lovely fast new main road from the M5 motorway right by Tiverton Parkway station (now its well-used railhead) to passing the town and on past Bideford, and also a town bypass with two new mainstream river bridges either side of the town. They are far busier than the railway could ever hope to have been.
I've often wondered whether Barnstaple might be better served by an express coach (with decent quality seats) service running every hour during the day, down the North Devon Link Road to Tiverton Parkway, non-stop, except for alternate services going in and out of South Molton on the way. Even going via South Molton, it probably wouldn't take more than an hour for forty miles down a decent road.
 

24Grange

Member
Joined
7 Jan 2021
Messages
237
Location
Baldock
There can't be many people, who take the Tarka trail to Exeter St Davids for onward travel rather than a quick trip in the car, being dropped at Tiverton Parkway, for catching the train there. Mind you once you are in the car, may as well carry on in it to your destination rather than use the nearest railhead as Beeching thought - which rather defeats the point.

I wonder if railbuses would have helped any of the branches , which were steam until they closed? Or where they by then to far " past" it to even consider a 4 wheel "cart" to replace a full train.
 

nanstallon

Member
Joined
18 Dec 2015
Messages
752
There can't be many people, who take the Tarka trail to Exeter St Davids for onward travel rather than a quick trip in the car, being dropped at Tiverton Parkway, for catching the train there. Mind you once you are in the car, may as well carry on in it to your destination rather than use the nearest railhead as Beeching thought - which rather defeats the point.

I wonder if railbuses would have helped any of the branches , which were steam until they closed? Or where they by then to far " past" it to even consider a 4 wheel "cart" to replace a full train.

The problem is that the size of the vehicle is only one element in the cost of running a branch line. You still have to maintain the track and stations, albeit they may be unstaffed platforms. Will the unions let you dispense with a conductor and have all tickets issued by the driver - going by the endless RMT hassle over who closes the doors, etc? If you can carry all the passengers in a railbus, it is hardly worth running and you may as well put them onto a bus.
 

randyrippley

Established Member
Joined
21 Feb 2016
Messages
5,144
It doesn't matter how much you reduce costs, a railbus can't compete. Compare the usefulness of a bus, able to penetrate village and town centres with multiple stops every 400 yards or so, with a railbus restricted to one stop per village, often situated well away from the village or town centre. The railbus can simply never generate the passenger volume.
The only place it might just work is a long, thin route with no parallel road - but given 1960's engineering a long route on rough track on a 2-axle railbus would have been uninviting

I wonder if railbuses would have helped any of the branches , which were steam until they closed? Or where they by then to far " past" it to even consider a 4 wheel "cart" to replace a full train.
Unlikely
The main problem - especially in the Southwest - is the stations weren't suitably sited to be useful. Why walk up to a mile, often down an unlit hill to get to the station when the bus stop needed a 200 yard walk, stopped at more places, was cheaper and more frequent?
 
Last edited:
Status
Not open for further replies.

Top