West Coast Catering - Going, going, gone...?

[chuckles1066]

Yet more hyperbole I see

I don't see what American football has to do with this?

 

[SS4]

I actually didn't realise I was in a Wetherspoons until I'd ordered a drink and we were browsing the menu. It's the one in Weston-Super-Mud just as a heads up.

I think it was the wall-to-wall Croydon facelifts, tattoos on the nape of the back, belly-button piercings, young kids by the name of "Britney" running around everywhere and the shouts of "Gazza, what you drinking babe?" that alerted me.

:cry:

You were in Weston xD. That's like wondering why most of the customers in Liverpool have Scouse accents

 

[Monty]

Id be very supprised if First Group scaled back the catering considering the service provided on Great Western. Same with regards to Virgin.

I would agree on this one, considering First are one of the only companies that provides a travelling chef on it's Great Western franchise I would be quite shocked if they did scale back on catering. As for Virgin, I can't really say but it doesn't really make alot of sense does it?

 

[Yew]

I'm not convinced at all about this, a complete withdrawal of catering sounds ridiculous to say the least. I could perhaps foresee a slight reduction in the catering offer on WC, but not a complete removal of all catering.

However, having said that, I can perhaps see why catering isn't as popular as it might have been in the past. I don't often buy the Virgin Trains standard class catering myself, except for tea and coffee. I think this is the case for a lot of travellers on Virgin's services. Firstly, a lot of the journeys aren't particularly long - a majority of travellers on WC services must spent 2h15m or less onboard. This is different from lengthier journey times in the past. You can spend that sort of time on some regional services with limited or no catering and most people are happy enough.

Secondly, Britain has a bit of a "sandwich culture". Don't get me wrong I like nice sandwiches as much as everyone else, but sandwiches can be prepared at home and they also available at stations in many different outlets. They are really easy to pop in your bag for later. Also, the rise of the "meal deal" in the UK, has made it quite reasonably priced to pick up a decent sarny (or salad), snack and drink from multiple station outlets (e.g Boots, WHSmith, Upper Crust).

What is the main core of daytime catering onboard VT at the shop? Sandwiches/wraps, snacks and drinks. All available from numerous outlets at large stations. There are other things, of course, like hot burgers but aside from the breakfast items, sandwiches and snacks seem to be the prime offering in terms of food for the rest of the day. That's not a criticism, because it's what many travellers in the UK tend to want to buy.

First Class catering, at least on weekdays, is a whole different situation however...

Ive got to agree that Train companies are missing a boat with standard catering, sandwiches and Paninnis. If they did it properly with 'pub food' available, suddenly things could get much better?

 

[bb21]

What excuse did EMT give for suspending the "free tea run" -no doubt they were going to improve Customer Service in other areas

In fact I think National Express were proposing scrapping the free offer if they won the franchise again anyway. Not just a Stagecoach thing.

I am a fan of Virgin breakfasts. I have not yet had an EC one as the trolley was allegedly malfunctioning the only time I travelled EC first. I would be very slow to buy First Advances for the seat only.

I think breakfast-wise they are comparable, with slightly more varieties from EC's baskets.

Dinner-wise EC's portion size is larger, as some VT meals are tiny, however VT do have loads more departures that serve evening meals.

6131: VT Full English
6862: EC Bakery
6863: EC Full English
6357: VT Dinner
6904: EC Dinner

 

[WestCoast]

Ive got to agree that Train companies are missing a boat with standard catering, sandwiches and Paninnis. If they did it properly with 'pub food' available, suddenly things could get much better?

Yes, it's certainly something to consider. A lot of what Wetherspoon's serve is ready prepared, packaged and microwavable, so space permitting a modification on that is an interesting possibility alongside sandwiches e.t.c. The UK trend is less catering, not more, so I don't think it would sit well in terms of costs for the TOC.

Actually, on the continent, alongside onboard restaurants you can get some nice hot 'mini dishes' (sometimes local specialties, often not) from buffets. They usually provide standing tables or you can take these dishes back to your seat, for example DB offer e.g. schnitzel and chilli con carne on IC/ICE services, SNCF have e.g. quiches and pasta dishes on TGV services e.t.c e.t.c.

 

[Butts]

In fact I think National Express were proposing scrapping the free offer if they won the franchise again anyway. Not just a Stagecoach thing.



I think breakfast-wise they are comparable, with slightly more varieties from EC's baskets.

Dinner-wise EC's portion size is larger, as some VT meals are tiny, however VT do have loads more departures that serve evening meals.

6131: VT Full English
6862: EC Bakery
6863: EC Full English
6357: VT Dinner
6904: EC Dinner

How did you manage to swing two eggs on the Virgin Breakfast ?

 

[142094]

Yet more hyperbole I see. I was in a Wetherspoons just the other day, no chavs, no undesirables, nothing. If anything it was full of relatively normal looking people ordering breakfast, including myself! I passed it again in the afternoon and even then I couldn't see any of the people you describe.

Funnily enough the only one I've seen quite a few 'undesirables' was the one in Preston, which is located next door to the Job Centre and a bookies. And even then it wasn't exactly a problem. Had an evening meal then breakfast the next morning for under a tenner (plus won £15 on the bandit so came away in profit).

 

[Pumbaa]

If anyone is actually interested rather than just wibble, some railway journos have confirmed elsewhere on t'internet that one of the remaining bids does indeed propose an almost complete withdrawal of the current catering offer.

If you want to find it yourselves, go look on WNXX.

 

[Masbroughlad]

If anyone is actually interested rather than just wibble, some railway journos have confirmed elsewhere on t'internet that one of the remaining bids does indeed propose an almost complete withdrawal of the current catering offer.

If you want to find it yourselves, go look on WNXX.

Can't access it. What does it say please?

 

[Pumbaa]

I'm on mobile - cant copy across, apologies. They gave no more detail than I have written above, I was just pointing users there for confirmation if they wanted it.

 

[island]

How did you manage to swing two eggs on the Virgin Breakfast ?

That's what I'd like to know too

 

[Masbroughlad]

How did you manage to swing two eggs on the Virgin Breakfast ?

I have just heard that Virgin have issued a profits warning due to over use of eggs....

And Bob Crow has been in negotiations on behalf of chickens, who claim to be overworked on Virgin Trains.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

If anyone is actually interested rather than just wibble, some railway journos have confirmed elsewhere on t'internet that one of the remaining bids does indeed propose an almost complete withdrawal of the current catering offer.

If you want to find it yourselves, go look on WNXX.

The criteria for selecting the winner do not include the quality or otherwise of the catering offer.
It's purely on the highest premium for the core service, which excludes catering (this is purely up to the bidder).

Part of VT's current setup is free food/drink for a high first class fare.
I can't see them ditching this formula.
First and the other bidders start from a different place so might be more radical.

 

[All Line Rover]

Paragraph 9 of this Guardian article claims that "some bidders" are considering removing the catering and on board shops, which I'm 90% sure would be Abellio or SNCF, especially as the article says "Virgin is thought to be considering less severe changes."

Paragraph 4 is interesting when it says that Abellio and SNCF are no longer considered likely contenders, but I'm NOT liking the look of paragraph 8! :

"Industry sources expect FirstGroup to offer a slightly higher premium number, based on its strong record on cost management (err, really?... What with the FGW fiasco?), while Virgin is expected to emphasise passenger growth and service."

It's an open and shut case then, isn't it. :roll: If First Group wins and it turns out they are the bidder who removes the catering and on board shops, my opinion of them as a company will change entirely. (But I am hoping they're not that bidder!)
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Part of VT's current setup is free food/drink for a high first class fare.

If a different bidder wins and scraps the free food/drink, I can't see the Manchester to London FOR plummeting from £423 to £329, bearing in mind that the SOR is £296. Although I can imagine one of the First Class carriages being converted to Standard Class if the free food/drink was scrapped. 76 Standard Class seats x £296 per seat = £22496, with no free food/drink costs. 46 First Class seats x £423 per seat = £19458.

 

[Masbroughlad]

Makes you wonder if catering is completely removed or severely dumbed down, whether there would be a case for a Pullman Style Open Access Operator? Either all or virtually all pullman class - comfort and refreshment wise? OK only be used at peak times, but maybe it could make extra dosh on premier dining excursions during the week?

Could be used on a Manchester to London and vice versa? Such a market may even warrant a late morning/early afternoon run each way between the peak times too.

I know, the usual arguments for slots etc, but just a thought - providing a gap in the market?

 

[MidnightFlyer]

I remember a company called WSMR who tried the full luxury service for First Class (and Standard to a degree). I seem to remember them fail too. I don't really think the majority of people care about onboard service when compared to time. If you offered me a journey time of two hours and a free coffee I'd be more inclined to take it over a two and a half or longer journey and more food - I find M&S's offerings way better than most on-train catering. The only people I could really see going for it would be those who enjoy the sense of bygone times it would bring (enthusiasts and the older generations), and those who absolutely positively have no other choice but to get something to eat onboard. Of course, your fares would need to be high to pay staff, paths and of course pay for the product.

 

[Masbroughlad]

I remember a company called WSMR who tried the full luxury service for First Class (and Standard to a degree). I seem to remember them fail too. I don't really think the majority of people care about onboard service when compared to time. If you offered me a journey time of two hours and a free coffee I'd be more inclined to take it over a two and a half or longer journey and more food - I find M&S's offerings way better than most on-train catering. The only people I could really see going for it would be those who enjoy the sense of bygone times it would bring (enthusiasts and the older generations), and those who absolutely positively have no other choice but to get something to eat onboard. Of course, your fares would need to be high to pay staff, paths and of course pay for the product.

There are other reasons why WSMR failed too - well documented.

BA have just re-introduced a non no-frills service BACK into Leeds Bradford Airport to London because there is absolutely that type of market there. This is after no-frills, buy your own food type operators failed to make it work.

If you can compete on time, there is definitely a market for business customers on London flows.

 

[calc7]

If a different bidder wins and scraps the free food/drink, I can't see the Manchester to London FOR plummeting from £423 to £329, bearing in mind that the SOR is £296. Although I can imagine one of the First Class carriages being converted to Standard Class if the free food/drink was scrapped. 76 Standard Class seats x £296 per seat = £22496, with no free food/drink costs. 46 First Class seats x £423 per seat = £19458.

Although I can't suggest a simple alternative, I believe it is unwise to think (unless you have confirmation otherwise) that ORCATS revenues are directly substitutable in terms of FC vs SC seats...what I mean is, for the same flow, on a FOS it could be more likely that Virgin gets proportionately more than on a SOS due to its focus on the business market (direct commuting, no longer routes or BoJ and superior catering).

 

[WestCoast]

BA have just re-introduced a non no-frills service BACK into Leeds Bradford Airport to London because there is absolutely that type of market there. This is after no-frills, buy your own food type operators failed to make it work..

That might just have something to do with the onward connections BA offer from Heathrow and the fact that the previous service went to Gatwick. Bmi withdrew the last Leeds/Bradford-Heathrow service and that was hardly no-frills. BA give you a bag of pretzels and a drink for most of the day, not even comparable to what East Coast or Virgin serve in 1st.

 

[ChiefPlanner]

That might just have something to do with the onward connections BA offer from Heathrow and the fact that the previous service went to Gatwick. Bmi withdrew the last Leeds/Bradford-Heathrow service and that was hardly no-frills. BA give you a bag of pretzels and a drink for most of the day, not even comparable to what East Coast or Virgin serve in 1st.

It might also be done in "marginal time" with a spare aircraft and spare slots to encourage transfer traffic. A loss leader in other words.

 

[Butts]

I have just heard that Virgin have issued a profits warning due to over use of eggs....

And Bob Crow has been in negotiations on behalf of chickens, who claim to be overworked on Virgin Trains.

Still no answer has he "touched up" the photo or pilfered a second egg off someone else