West Coast on track for 50 million passengers by 2026

[Bletchleyite]

With my proposal you are not losing connectivity

Yes you are, specifically there would be a significant increase in journey time for Euston to Oxenholme/Penrith for the Lakes, as you'd either have to change or go via Birmingham. Way to lose all the tourist traffic.

 

[driver_m]

as TPE can easily handle traffic from Lancashire to Scotland it would make sense to make the London-Glasgow service non-stop between Crewe and Carlisle , and go back to pre-Virgin days with a London service serving Lancs and Cumbria only: Carlisle-Penrith-Oxenholme-Lancaster-Preston-Wigan-Warrington-Crewe-Euston. That would accelerate the Glasgow service and make capacity available while improving seating availability for Lancashire passengers. There may not be enough Pendolinos to run the service, but there must be spare 100mph EMUs available

You can’t do this. Simply because you have to crew change at Preston. No if’s no buts, you can’t do it.

Also, when there are going to be reductions in time to come with HS2, why would you trash the existing system, just to get a few people off a plane?

 

[fowler9]

Not going to be any Virgin Trains soon. Time for a new thread.

 

[gazthomas]

Not going to be any Virgin Trains soon. Time for a new thread.

Exactly

 

[randyrippley]

You can’t do this. Simply because you have to crew change at Preston. No if’s no buts, you can’t do it.

Also, when there are going to be reductions in time to come with HS2, why would you trash the existing system, just to get a few people off a plane?

HS2 is irrelevant to anyone on the northern half of the WCML: its heading east to Manchester and Leeds, not north. Besides which its years away at best (more likely never)

 

[backontrack]

Well, this aged absolutely exceptionally.

 

[randyrippley]

Not going to be any Virgin Trains soon. Time for a new thread.

All the more reason to look at what services the new franchisee should offer

 

[randyrippley]

You can’t do this. Simply because you have to crew change at Preston. No if’s no buts, you can’t do it.............

You can if there's a new franchise
New company, new terms, new base

 

[Class 170101]

I will certainly give you that the Glasgow-Eustons are busy at Preston, but how many of those are on at just Glasgow and Carlisle; and not Penrith, Oxenholme, Lancaster, or indeed boarding at Preston; and how many of those from Scotland and Carlisle are still on after Warrington heading full pelt to London? How many carriages of the swathes of capacity on an 11-car 390 does that occupy? What about about noon on a Wednesday [I'll guess that's a rather quiet time of the week!]?

Now, I don't doubt that sometimes there will be quite a few, certainly on Friday and Sunday evenings and for big events; and that is when you can run tastefully-placed relief services, and fiddle calling patterns to spread demand. But the %age of time that is applicable and not already done across the entire service provision is tiny.

Connectivity is lost as soon as you start doing it; it doesn't matter if it's a new service, instead of, in supplement to or whatever. Same goes for the Great Western from December when we have trains every hour skipping huge conurbations and railheads such as Reading and Swindon, or every hour now on the West Coast through the likes of Watford, Keynes and Rugby. As I have said before and will repeat until the end of time, Britain's railways do not need more trains on the timing graph unless we have exhausted stock lengths and had a monumental upgrade in infrastructure and the fleet and crews to run them. The fact that the 11-car Pendo, as stands, has pretty much every seat taken from Warrington to Euston isn't a failure, it is a sign that the service provision is absolutely dead on.

In future, as demand grows, we can begin to address this. If journey times to kill off domestic air travel is important then we can accommodate this too. Maybe the huge infrastructure upgrade I called for above can help this. Maybe something to bypass the more congested parts of our network and be built to a 21st Century spec, allowing the traditional lines to breath and create the well-connected railway needed. Maybe something to indicate the desired linespeed of the new route, and the fact we already have one very similar...

The previous 16:30 Euston to Glasgow only stop at Preston wasn't busy enough to justify itself even on Fridays when I used it. Its busier now as a standard pattern service with the extra stops - even after Preston.

 

[MidnightFlyer]

The previous 16:30 Euston to Glasgow only stop at Preston wasn't busy enough to justify itself even on Fridays when I used it. Its busier now as a standard pattern service with the extra stops - even after Preston.

Indeed - I can remember using that service on occasion and for a train leaving London on the verge of the evening peak it was silent - as you say, much more useful now it slots in as part of the standard train plan. Much better to have a slower train at 80% seat occupancy than the same train running a bit faster with only 10% of seats taken.

 

[driver_m]

You can if there's a new franchise
New company, new terms, new base

....and TUPE which means your T&Cs are not changed for a period.

I’ll make it clear. You cannot miss out Preston. Anyway, This thread is as dead as the proverbial dodo now as already mentioned. If you want to keep banging on about your crazy plan to take out NW England’s connectivity for the sake of getting a few people off a plane, then start a new thread. But make sure you label it as a fantasy thread.

 

[Bald Rick]

You missed one more really important thing.

In the middle of the 3rd week of January, I knew exactly how much I was paying (£88) to go home for Christmas 2019, I knew the exact time of the flights, and I knew exactly how much I'd be paying to park at Heathrow (£39).
'
Now, there is the alternative. I could wait until the 22nd September and see what the fares might be, they might be cheaper than the return £88 I'm paying - but they probably won't be.

I like airports really, a few minutes to sweep through security and you are in a safe space. Dry, clean, comfortable temperature, lots of phone recharge options and plenty of places to sit. Nothing like the average journey starting at Euston.

I did miss it, but only because it is a vanishingly small number of people who book domestic flights 11 months out, even for Christmas. I could book a flight to Glasgow this Saturday for £88. Or a train for £55.

 

[Bald Rick]

Indeed - I can remember using that service on occasion and for a train leaving London on the verge of the evening peak it was silent - as you say, much more useful now it slots in as part of the standard train plan. Much better to have a slower train at 80% seat occupancy than the same train running a bit faster with only 10% of seats taken.

The 1630 was normally about 40-50% full from Euston, c30% from Preston. But the point you make is fair. Racing through Carlisle non-stop (at 20mph) was odd though!

 

[BigCj34]

I did miss it, but only because it is a vanishingly small number of people who book domestic flights 11 months out, even for Christmas. I could book a flight to Glasgow this Saturday for £88. Or a train for £55.

Chances are it might not be the cheapest price anyway 11 months out for a domestic flight, flight prices can go up or down according to demand. Train prices only go up (not sure if there are any exceptions). I also would prefer to book 3 months ahead, not a year ahead, to get the cheapest price

 

[randyrippley]

....and TUPE which means your T&Cs are not changed for a period.

I’ll make it clear. You cannot miss out Preston. Anyway, This thread is as dead as the proverbial dodo now as already mentioned. If you want to keep banging on about your crazy plan to take out NW England’s connectivity for the sake of getting a few people off a plane, then start a new thread. But make sure you label it as a fantasy thread.

OK so you make Preston the only stop in Lancs and Cumbria, but the principle remains: the Glasgow end-to-end timings could be significantly reduced, you would have improved capacity for Lancs and Cumbrian passengers and you wouldn't lose any connnectivity.

 

[Glenn1969]

Think the premise of the OP for this thread is dead. Virgin won't make it to 2021 thanks to Stagecoach's ban

 

[Esker-pades]

Think the premise of the OP for this thread is dead. Virgin won't make it to 2021 thanks to Stagecoach's ban

The thread title could be changed to "InterCity West Coast franchise operator on track for..."
The premise certainly is not dead (people will use the train because it exists, not because Branson's face is plastered across it).

 

[The Ham]

The thread title could be changed to "InterCity West Coast franchise operator on track for..."
The premise certainly is not dead (people will use the train because it exists, not because Branson's face is plastered across it).

ICWC on track to have ~9,000 passengers an hour by 2026.

 

[Jorge Da Silva]

Title Changed

 

[BigCj34]

I can't imagine the name change to LNER in itself has deterred many passengers. Same for the West Coast, just needs some good marketing of any form.

If the next franchise is to use generic non corporate branding would London Midland Scottish be an appropriate name for the franchise still? Considering it also serves the North West as well.

 

[adrock1976]

Alternatively, it could be LNWR (London & North Western Railway) Intercity, with the present LNWR Birmingham/Liverpool/Trent Valley services being LNWR Regional. The West Midlands Railway services could be rebranded as LNWR local, which would also include Bedford - Bletchley, London Euston - Tring, and Watford Junction - St Albans Abbey.

The Local services around Birmingham would still have input from West Midlands Passenger Transport Executive, and similar to what was in the big Great Britain Passenger Railway Timetable book, those tables could have "Certain/Most/All services shown in this table are operated by London & North Western Railway on behalf of West Midlands Passenger Transport Executive".

Of course, this depends if there is appetite for better integration but distinct service groups between the Intercity, Regional, and Local services (similar as to how the present Great Western Railway has/did* have Intercity integrated with Regional and local services).

*Although when London Crossrail is eventually up and running, the local services that run along the Relief Lines between London Paddington and Reading will be transferred from GWR.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I believe it's pretty much been confirmed it will be LMS, probably with the now fashionable Railway suffix.

The London Northwestern Railway brand was probably not a masterstroke. They should probably have called that the London and Birmingham or something - I know it goes further than that, but that's it's main market.

Using the same name as a different franchise is just asking for customer service type issues along the lines of VTEC and VTWC having different policies and communication channels.

 

[ForTheLoveOf]

The West Midlands Railway services could be rebranded as LNWR local, which would also include Bedford - Bletchley, London Euston - Tring, and Watford Junction - St Albans Abbey.

Out of all the proposals you make, this is one that we can be almost 100% sure will not happen. The eventual intention is for routes currently coming under the WMR brand to split off into their own franchise down the line, coordinated by a semi-devolved West Midlands Combined Authority et al. Not much different to how, over the years, London Overground (and to a lesser extent TfL Rail) have taken over a number of local/stopping services in and around London.

 

[fowler9]

OK so you make Preston the only stop in Lancs and Cumbria, but the principle remains: the Glasgow end-to-end timings could be significantly reduced, you would have improved capacity for Lancs and Cumbrian passengers and you wouldn't lose any connnectivity.

The train can not fly through Preston anyway. Why not stop there?

 

[Jorge Da Silva]

Some info here on Virgin’s Blackpool Services:

https://www.railadvent.co.uk/2019/05/blackpool-journeys-soar-for-virgin-trains.html

Virgin Trains has released figures for journeys taken on their Blackpool route, after one year of running Pendolino services.

Latest figures from the train operator show that over 150,000 journeys have been made on the 36 Pendolino services that launched in May 2018.

34% (51,000) made between Blackpool and London Euston. Adding journeys taken on the original services, a total of 56,000 journeys have been made between the resort and the capital. This is a record number since VT introduced the direct link in December 2014.

Advert
The electric services were introduced following Network Rail’s project to electrify the line between Blackpool and Preston. This itself has generated an increase in local jounreys in Lancashire, with 7,000 journeys between Preston and Blackpool over the last year.

Following the boost in services, journeys on Virgin’s Blackpool route have increased by 1600% since May 2017, when the train operator only operated two direct services to Blackpool between Monday and Friday.

VT now operates eight direct services each weekday and five services on a Saturday between Blackpool and London.

A direct service from Birmingham on Saturdays also offers the West Midlands a direct service to Blackpool.

What did the officials say?
Zina Nomicas, General Manager at Virgin Trains, said:

“We are delighted to have reached another milestone on our Blackpool route – celebrating one year of our electric Pendolino services, which have helped to transform and strengthen connections to and from the town. We have enjoyed serving the resort for nearly five years and would like to thank the people of Blackpool for their continued support as we announce record journeys on the route. The increasing popularity of our services illustrates travelling by train is a great way to reach Blackpool, so it’s the perfect excuse to enjoy a short break to the seaside resort this summer.”

Paul Maynard, MP for Blackpool North and Cleveleys, said:

“Having fought so hard to deliver this increase in service I hope passenger numbers will continue to grow. I am pleased that Virgin Trains has continued to show faith in Blackpool and worked so hard to make these new services a success.

“There is no doubt of the benefit to our local economy of the direct link to London and other new markets and believe there is a strong case for innovation and the delivery of further direct services.”

Cllr Gillian Campbell, Deputy Leader of Blackpool Council, said:

“This is great news and are delighted more and more visitors are using this city to seaside direct link to experience our fantastic beaches, attractions, shows and world-class events.”

 

[BigCj34]

Some info here on Virgin’s Blackpool Services:

https://www.railadvent.co.uk/2019/05/blackpool-journeys-soar-for-virgin-trains.html

Not sure about the use of statistics here. How many more people are taking the train from Euston to Blackpool and vice versa due the increase in services?

Also why do Euston - Blackpool services that run non-stop from Preston to Blackpool take longer than a 13 minute connection at Preston, with a connecting train that stops at intermediate stations between Preston and Blackpool?