West Coast Railways Suspended (now reinstated)

[martynbristow]

Looking a bit more positive for West Coast now. There was a meeting with Network Rail today and one of the outcomes was the Great Britain tour will run next week (presumably with steam as planned)

THANKS Very good news
Its really important to keep running steam on the main line, it would be such a sad day if it went.
Of course to the appropriate standard

 

[ainsworth74]

Steam on the mainline was never under threat as a result of this incident?

 

[edwin_m]

Steam on the mainline was never under threat as a result of this incident?

Not directly, but maybe indirectly, and the risk remains.

I can see two scenarios that might play out:

(1) As it seems the action taken to defeat the TPWS could only have been carried out on a steam loco, there might be a crackdown on all the rules that are applied differently and arguably less stringently for steam locos. One example might be the reduced functionality of OTMR which someone mentioned (I think) a few pages back. This could result in it becoming impracticable or prohibitively expensive to fit a steam loco with the necessary equipment to run on the main line. A related issue is whether steam locos can and will be fitted with ERTMS, which if they aren't is going to start restricting their operations within not very many years.

(2) As a result of this incident, public opinion decides that steam locos on the main line are unsafe and demand drops off enough that their operation becomes uneconomic.

 

[Ploughman]

From the BBC today.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-wiltshire-32427781

A charter train operator responsible for a steam train which overshot a junction in Wiltshire, is having its safety certification reviewed.
West Coast Railways (WCR) services were halted by Network Rail after the "most serious" case of a train failing to stop at a signal so far this year.
The suspension means WCR cannot run chartered services until 15 May.
The Office of Rail and Road (ORR) is now reviewing its safety certification, needed to operate on the rail network.

No mention of lifting the ban however it has been mentioned elsewhere that the Great Britain rail tour is to proceed.

 

[martynbristow]

Steam on the mainline was never under threat as a result of this incident?

There were rumours that some people didn't like it and if WCR didn't continue it would leave a huge gap which might not get filled.

 

[alexl92]

There were rumours that some people didn't like it and if WCR didn't continue it would leave a huge gap which might not get filled.

To be fair, in the most recent RI diary of steam tours that I've seen, there are only WCR and DBS who operate steam charters and WCR is about 90% of those. Who, realistically, could step in and fill that gap? So without them steam charters would take a huge huge hit.

 

[Darren R]

Well, they do have a decent amount of cash (just over £600K) so they're in good shape, as long as it can be sorted out soon (and the creditors don't get ^twitchy^). Reference: http://companycheck.co.uk/company/03066109/WEST-COAST-RAILWAY-COMPANY-LTD

The information contained on the above web site is so minimal as to render it meaningless. I would need to see a full set of accounts before commenting specifically on WCRC, but "assets" does not necessarily mean something owned that can be sold to raise money, and even if the assets are of that type, the value of these assets in the accounts is merely Net Book Value - it has no connection to the value those assets would raise should they be sold on the commercial market. And, as any shareholder of a certain large retailer which shall remain nameless can testify, assets can be overstated - either accidentally or otherwise. WCRC may have assets of £3.17m, but they also have liabilities of £2.58m with only £0.66m in cash. If WCRC creditors got cold feet and demanded immediate payment there is insufficient capital available to pay their current liabilities without realising 60% of their assets.

 

[Daz9284]

also remember that DBS only operate air braked steam loco's and stock, whereas WCRC also operated vacuum braked loco's and stock

regards
darryl

 

[RichmondCommu]

also remember that DBS only operate air braked steam loco's and stock, whereas WCRC also operated vacuum braked loco's and stock

regards
darryl

However in the worst case scenario (for those employed by WCRC) there would be nothing to stop DBS bidding for the rolling stock. And for what its worth it doesn't appear to be the case that WCRC actually own that many steam locos. And the ones that it does would find buyers very quickly I would have thought.

 

[Bertie the bus]

Looking a bit more positive for West Coast now. There was a meeting with Network Rail today and one of the outcomes was the Great Britain tour will run next week (presumably with steam as planned)

I'd be very careful reading too much into what comes out of Carnforth. Most of it seems to be untrue.

Their initial press release basically said they had voluntarily withdrawn from running charters until thier internal investigation into the SPAD had completed. Totally untrue.

They stated passengers booked on charters shouldn't worry as they will all run as planned. Totally untrue.

They initially put out the message the suspension would be lifted in a few days. Totally untrue.

Therefore, just because WCRC state they are making good progress really means nothing.

It is true thet the GB8 is running, but nowhere has it been stated WCRC will be operating it.

 

[Darren R]

...It is true thet the GB8 is running, but nowhere has it been stated WCRC will be operating it.

It would appear that DBS are running The Great Britain VIII. UKsteam Info has the following on its website:

THE GREAT BRITAIN VIII (Day 1 of 9) UPDATED (21/04)
London Victoria-Penzance [wcrc] [dbs]
70000: Victoria-Slough-Newbury-Exeter
Diesel: Exeter-Par-Penzance
[Revised due to WCRC operational restrictions]

 

[martynbristow]

The information contained on the above web site is so minimal as to render it meaningless. I would need to see a full set of accounts before commenting specifically on WCRC, but "assets" does not necessarily mean something owned that can be sold to raise money, and even if the assets are of that type, the value of these assets in the accounts is merely Net Book Value - it has no connection to the value those assets would raise should they be sold on the commercial market. And, as any shareholder of a certain large retailer which shall remain nameless can testify, assets can be overstated - either accidentally or otherwise. WCRC may have assets of £3.17m, but they also have liabilities of £2.58m with only £0.66m in cash. If WCRC creditors got cold feet and demanded immediate payment there is insufficient capital available to pay their current liabilities without realising 60% of their assets.

We'll take with a pinch of salt or maybe 2 like you would with anything else. It gives you a clear guide not an exact proc.

 

[A-driver]

http://m.westerngazette.co.uk/Crimi...overshot-red/story-26389042-detail/story.html

Look like the ORR are considering criminal prosecution similar to that of Scott Walford (the Lynn driver who had a spad at Hitchin).

An incident in which a steam train passed through a red signal and just missed a High Speed Train on the main line in Wiltshire is now the subject of a criminal investigation.

Rail investigators from the Office of Rail and Road, the Government's railway safety body, are understood to have found "significant weaknesses" in the safety management systems at West Coast Railways after investigating the incident which happened near Royal Wootton Bassett.


On March 7, a steam train on an excursion passed through a red light and only narrowly missed colliding with a passing InterCity 125 train.

The Cathedrals Express service, a special train pulled by Battle of Britain class steam locomotive Tangmere number 34067, overshot the red light by 700 yards at a junction where the tracks to the West split into the line which continues to Chippenham and Bristol Temple Meads and the one for Bristol Parkway and South Wales. The steam special was travelling from Temple Meads to Southend and is thought to have narrowly missed the First Great Western 3.28pm service from Swansea to Paddington, which had just gone through.

It came to rest at the Wootton Bassett junction just one minute after the previous train had passed. Network Rail consider the incident the "most serious" of its kind to have happened on the West's railways in recent years.

Investigators have now decided that they will take matters further with an inquiry to see if health-and-safety laws have been breached and whether a prosecution in the courts could follow.

Network Rail withdrew temporarily the licence it gave to West Coast Railways, the company that runs the steam trains and operates the tours, to run trains on the railway network.

It is the first time any action of that kind had been taken against a company operating trains on Britain's privatised railways.

Now the Office of Rail and Road is considering whether or not to revoke the company's licence completely.

This is alongside the body deciding whether to mount a prosecution under health-and-safety legislation.

A spokesman for the Office of the Rail Regulator said: "The rail regulator has notified the West Coast Railway Company that it is reviewing the company's safety certification – needed to operate trains on the rail network.

"Our initial investigation has found significant weaknesses in the company's safety management systems.

"ORR is carrying out further assessments to determine whether health and safety laws were breached, and the enforcement action required," he added.

A spokesman for Network Rail said: "This decision has not been taken lightly.

"We have set out a number of actions to address the safety concerns raised and will continue to work with West Coast Railways to ensure their services can run safely in the future."

Read more at http://www.westerngazette.co.uk/Cri...6389042-detail/story.html#16pdFv5Xo6CuqiIO.99

 

[DarloRich]

The GB tour is running but there are a number of changes and more use of diesels

 

[CosherB]

http://m.westerngazette.co.uk/Crimi...overshot-red/story-26389042-detail/story.html

Look like the ORR are considering criminal prosecution similar to that of Scott walford (the Lynn driver who had a spad at Hitchin).

Read more at http://www.westerngazette.co.uk/Cri...6389042-detail/story.html#16pdFv5Xo6CuqiIO.99

That's not how I read the article. Whilst I wouldn't rule out legal proceedings against those on the loco, I would think it more likely that WCR will end up in the dock.

 

[Darren R]

That's not how I read the article. Whilst I wouldn't rule out legal proceedings against those on the loco, I would think it more likely that WCR will end up in the dock.

Well I didn't bother reading the article beyond the second sentence:

Rail investigators from the Office of Rail and Road, the Government's railway safety body...

Clearly the piece is not necessarily factually accurate or to be trusted in what it says. That is shockingly bad journalism!

 

[CosherB]

Well I didn't bother reading the article beyond the second sentence:


Clearly the piece is not necessarily factually accurate or to be trusted in what it says. That is shockingly bad journalism!

In what way?

http://orr.gov.uk/about-orr/who-we-are

 

[Darren R]

In what way?

http://orr.gov.uk/about-orr/who-we-are

Alright - I'll let you have that one, my bad! I completely misread what he'd said, even after I'd quoted it myself! I think it's time for an early night now....

 

[alxndr]

Later they do get what it's called confused these days though.

Although I did think I was seeing things at first...

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

Later they do get what it's called confused these days though.
Although I did think I was seeing things at first...

I'm fairly certain the signal they show isn't like the one in question at Wootton Bassett...

 

[alxndr]

I'm fairly certain the signal they show isn't like the one in question at Wootton Bassett...

I don't know how I missed that one! Definitely not.

 

[WatcherZero]

To be fair its only included Highways since 1st April after the government privatisation of the Highways Agency. They just moved the regulatory side into ORR and kept the abbreviation :P

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

To be fair its only included Highways since 1st April after the government privatisation of the Highways Agency. They just moved the regulatory side into ORR and kept the abbreviation :P

I wouldn't call Highways England privatised.
It's still a government company, not unlike NR really.

 

[Rail Ranger]

Passengers who had booked on tomorrow's Southport to Carlisle train have received the following communication from WCRC:

Trip Cancelled - Urgent Announcement

Dear Passenger,

Friday 1st May - Southport to Carlisle.

It is with regret that I have to announce that Friday 1st May Compass
by West Coast Rail trip from Southport to Carlisle has had to be cancelled.

This is due to a suspension of the Operators licence following a recent breach
in safety regulations. We have exhausted every alternative avenue to find a replacement operator, therefore we have had to cancel the trip, hopefully it will be re-scheduled at a later date this year.

We apologise for the disappointment and inconvenience but this unfortunately
is totally out of our control.

We will be issuing full refunds to all passengers which you will receive by 5th May furthermore you will be entitled to a 10% discount should you wish to travel on the re scheduled service. We will advise you of that date as soon as we have it.

Once again many apologies, if I could ask that you reply to this email quoting simply your name and booking reference if you have it, simply so we know you have received this communication. You will also receive a telephone call to further ensure all passengers are aware of this cancelled trip.

(My comment) Perhaps other operators' resources were not available because the trip was on a Monday to Friday?

 

[ac6000cw]

We apologise for the disappointment and inconvenience but this unfortunately
is totally out of our control.

Really ? Who was responsible for the "recent breach
in safety regulations." ? Are WCRC on a different planet to the rest of us ?

 

[alexl92]

We have exhausted every alternative avenue to find a replacement operator, therefore we have had to cancel the trip, hopefully it will be re-scheduled at a later date this year.

...every alternative being DBS :roll:

 

[theblackwatch]

(My comment) Perhaps other operators' resources were not available because the trip was on a Monday to Friday?

Other operators' don't have resources lying around most of the time, whether it be Monday-Friday or the weekend. DBS have run one WCRC/Compass tour since the beginning of April, and it required two locos going from Arpley to Carnforth to collect the stock the day before, running ECS to Chester, then the tour and running back to Carnforth with the stock - it isn't a simple out and back trip for them. As it is, DBS, to their credit, are currently picking up the pieces of the shambles of the 'Great Britain VIII'.

I understand the Compass trip from Carnforth to Norwich next Wednesday is in doubt.

 

[37038]

APRIL 30: WEST COAST RAILWAYS SUSPENSION REMAINS IN PLACE

West Coast Railway Company currently remains barred from operating steam and diesel charters on the main line, Network Rail confirmed today.

NR’s head of media relations, Kevin Groves, told Steam Railway on April 30: “The suspension remains in place and won’t be lifted this week.

“We had a very positive and productive meeting on Friday, and WCR has provided us with further evidence – but while some of the seven points raised in the suspension letter have been addressed and closed, half remain open with some significant work yet to be done.”

 

[CharlieSpotted]

“We had a very positive and productive meeting on Friday, and WCR has provided us with further evidence – but while some of the seven points raised in the suspension letter have been addressed and closed, half remain open with some significant work yet to be done.”

Half of the seven points remain open, eh? :roll:

 

[DarloRich]

Half of the seven points remain open, eh? :roll:

satisfied 3 not satisfied 3 half satisfied 1?